Hodges
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How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:45 am

I'm going to be flying to Germany on Lufthansa later this week from JFK to Frankfurt and then from Frankfurt to Munich. I've been wondering two things. First of all is it at all possible to fly jumpseat for at least some part of the flight, and secondly, how would one go about accomplishing that?

Thanks for the help,

Erik Hodges
Beer, helping ugly people have sex since 1862.
 
goboeing
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:21 am

If Lufthansa still permits it, your best chance is to type a letter and sign it and put it in an envelope addressed to the captain and give it to the F/A at the door upon boarding. In it, write that you're interested in aviation, mention that you have your pilot's license if you do, and that you'd greatly appreciate being able to visit the cockpit during the flight. The least they can do is read it and let you up after landing if they have a no-visitor policy nowadays.

Or, if you're lucky, they'll let you up during the flight sometime. I lucked out flying BA from PHL to LHR and back and spent over 2 hours in the cockpit of the 777, including pushback to Halifax leaving PHL. Definitely worth the effort; good luck!

Nick
 
futterman
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:29 am

...type a letter and sign it and put it in an envelope addressed to the captain and give it to the F/A at the door upon boarding...

What are the chances of that being misconstrued? Yeah, when they read it, they'll probably laugh in relief, but I'm willing to bet that the FA's first thought would be something along the lines of, "AHHH!"
What the FUTT?
 
goboeing
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:15 pm

At the time that wasn't in anyone's mind, Brian. Except for our 19 buddies, the pilots, our best friends on 9/11.

Still, I think if you mentioned it was a request to visit the cockpit to the F/A they wouldn't get nervous one iota.

Nick
 
PilotHighFlyer
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:33 pm

American Carriers are not allowed to have people in the jumpset, including crew according to a Delta (Song) 757 Capt. i was talking to last week. Upon entering the cabin i walked up 2 the cockpit door and knocked and was allowed to sit in the first officer's seat for 20 minutes before pushback and during the course of our conversation he said he would of given me the Jumpseat if allowed, but even he is not allowed jumpseat privilages, but apparently rules are going to change that will allow crew to jumpseat than eventaully other ATPs to get the seat, as he said when i'm flyin for some regional i'll get to take a ride up front.

Robert
 
707CMF
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:04 pm

As for Lufthansa, they don't allow jumspeat rides anymore.


cheers,

707
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:40 pm

Fly AF instead and be nice to the flightcrew, at least it is still permitted on that airline (the jumpseat, not being nice  Smile )


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Will
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INNflight
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:19 pm

Just try to be nice, polite and try to show the captain ( NOT the cabin crew ), how much you're interested into aviation and how much you would like to see the pilots working...

Talking to the captain or the f/o is better in general, because the flightattendants won't understand how you feel in most cases...


However, I think in Germany, jumpseating is not allowed anymore in general.
I've hada JS ride in May, from NRN to MUC, a German domestic ride, but the airline was V-Bird, so Dutch  Wink/being sarcastic

Good luck,

regards, Florian
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707CMF
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:26 pm

Rhaaa. Without even opening the large version I can tell the left one is not an A318 !

707
 
Joge
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:15 pm

Well, if you were German, flying on (or even for) a German airline, speaking German and on a domestic flight, I guess you would have a better chance for a jumpseat ride. But then again, I don't think LH would allow you to have a landing in the jumpseat. So strict is their policy. That is, however, post-9-11...


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-Joge
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ChrisZRH
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:59 pm

you need to have a cockpit permit! than you're allowed on the jump for the whole time.. but have no idea how this works in germany!
Christian Galliker - AirTeamImages
 
INNflight
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:37 pm

Having any kind of pilot licence helps too  Smile I tried it out!

regards, Florian
Jet Visuals
 
SNBA319
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:38 am

One topice a while ago mentioned that the German aviation authority has banned cockpit visits over German airspace. I know that the same goes for UK airspace, and they actually send people on board to fine crews who do allow people in the cockpits.
 
Sabena332
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:43 am

Jumpseat flights on any German airline are forbidden by law since October or November last year (I can't remember the exact date), only the active flight crew is allowed to sit in the cockpit during the flight. You can be employee or even be the CEO of LH, you are not allowed to enter the cockpit during the flight.

Thanks a lot to our paranoid minister of the interior for that great law!  Yeah sure

Patrick
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acho
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:19 am

Do Mexican carriers still alow this? Next week I will be flying QRO-MEX-REX and back on VW and AM. Will I have any chance?
 
soamsky
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:19 am

"Thanks a lot to our paranoid minister of the interior for that great law!"

Thanks a lot to the Saudi terrorists and their twisted religion believe on September 11th
 Sad
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Starlionblue
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:41 am

your best chance is with a smaller airline, like a regional, outside North America and Europe.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
transPac
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:30 am

I dont think any US passenger carriers allow it anymore but does anyone know if FX might? my dad's buddy is a DC10 captain with them and it would be cool to jumpseat out to MEM sometime. Shoulda asked him myself at his birthday party last year but I was too busy drinking  Nuts
 
VEEREF
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:26 am

Since 9/11 the only way to actually be able to ride the cockpit jumpseat in the U.S. is to be a crewmember of that airline or it's affiliate. As a USAirways Express pilot, I may occupy a US mainline or affiliated Express jumpseat. I may still "jumpseat" on DL, UA, AA etc, but must only occupy a seat in the cabin, if available.
Also pre 9/11 it was possible to catch a ride on Fedex or UPS or any cargo carrier, but that has since been discontinued. Any Fedex pilots on A.net with an update?
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:28 pm

Per F.A.R. here in the U.S., you would need to be an employee of an air carrier who holds an airman (Pilot, A&P mechanic, F.A.A. inspector, etc.) certificate. There are no exceptions to that rule and is strictly enforced.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
BREmer
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:48 pm

Jumpseat rides are strictly forbidden since November 1st 2003 by German law. My cousin is a F/O on 737 at Lufthansa and said the pilots aren't even allowed to open the flightdeck for their own wife and kids. Not only for jumpseat rides, but during the entire flight. In fact, Lufthansa pilots who are flying deadhead in the cabin and wear a crew uniform(!!) aren't even allowed to enter the flight deck anymore, not even to say Hi to their fellow colleagues.
So the new German air safety law is even stricter than the FAA one. I'm sorry but I don't think there'll be any chance at all to get a jumpseat ride on a German carrier, even if it's a turboprop domestic flight.
I've talked to several LH pilots and 100% agreed that this new law is 100% bull***t and won't make flying safer. They said they always enjoyed showing the flight deck to passengers and kids and inviting people to fly on the jump.  Sad

Well, you should at least try. Maybe you got a pilot on his last flight before retirement.  Big grin

Greetz
Lukas
 
JJMNGR
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:43 pm

What can tell you about FEDEX is that not even employees, that normally flew worldwide, on duty or for pleasure, since 9/11 were forbidden to fly on the company aircraft. They are studying to return the old practice BUT ONLY FOR EMPLOYEES.
I know this as my wife works for FEDEX.
 
BCAL
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:18 pm

I managed to ride jumpseat purely by chance. My seat (12B) faced the centre flight attendants' seats on a B757 of a British Charter airline. Although an aviation freak I still become nervous when flying, so during my conversation with the F/A on take off I asked what they did when someone became hysterical through fear of flying. As the conversation progressed I admitted to the F/A that I was nervous when flying. After meal service the F/A asked if a visit to the flight deck might help me to calm down. Was she kidding? I jumped at the chance and surprisingly the Captain granted my request.
Surprisingly the visit to the flightdeck did help. I felt much calmer afterwards and on the return journey with the same airline we struck bad turbulence. Normally I would freak out in this situation but somehow I had every confidence in this airline and the flight crew and actually enjoyed being bumped around!
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
Speedbird747
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:26 pm

TAME Ecuador still allows Jumpseat rides... At least if you hold a pilot license. In October 2003 I had the chance to fly UIO-GYE-UIO on the Jumpseat of an F-28.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=176733
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=177147

Cheers
Simon
 
lapper
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:13 pm

One topice a while ago mentioned that the German aviation authority has banned cockpit visits over German airspace. I know that the same goes for UK airspace, and they actually send people on board to fine crews who do allow people in the cockpits.

I was on BA last Friday GLA-LHR that had a jumpseater for the whole flight. BA Cabin crew I beleive.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:31 am

Just try to be nice, polite and try to show the captain ( NOT the cabin crew ), how much you're interested into aviation and how much you would like to see the pilots working...


Some of the cabin crew do understand and being nice to them may be your only chance. After all, didn't someone mentioned passing a note via the cabin crew. Some of the flight attendants are married to the Captain or F/O. Although it should never be allowed in the states, you shouldn't discount any route possible, including cabin staff.

M
 
AmericanAirFan
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:25 am

In all my ignorance what is a jumpseat I know its in the cockpit but why is it called that and why is it there?
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SlamClick
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:49 am

Americanairfan a jumpseat is called a "forward observer's seat" in the Federal Aviation Regulations. It exists so that check pilots giving checkrides and other persons with a need to observe flight operations can have a seat to occupy on the flight deck. Don't know where the word "jumpseat" originated but it refers to any fold-down seat and is as old has horse-drawn carriages.

Most common use for them just now is for online commuters, followed by Company or FAA enroute checkrides. Some aircraft have more than one. Long-haul two-pilot aircraft like A-330 or B-767 that frequently use three pilots for international pilots will have a seat for the IRO plus a jumpseat. Older aircraft that had a flight engineer (B-727 e.g.) might have one jumpseat for a check engineer and one for a check pilot.

Under the US FARs, there are two regulatory cases. One is for people whose seat onboard the aircraft IS the jumpseat, and another for people who have a seat assigned in the passenger cabin but who may have need to occupy a flightdeck seat for a portion of the flight. There are different criteria for each case. In one case it is open to any person who has the permission of the [airline] but that permission has to be granted in compliance with their FAA-approved operations manual.

The jumpseat regulations are pre-9/11 and have been superseded by a tougher law.

I am a long distance commuter and while I "ride jumpseat" offline, I have to be seated in the cabin. That means there has to be a seat available for me in the cabin.

One last thing about jumpseats. The FAA does not care how many jumpseaters a given flight has. You can have one jumpseat in the cockpit and fifty jumpseaters onboard the plane. It is an economic consideration and the FAA just does not care how you solve it. What they do insist on is that each person on board the aircraft, no matter whether ticketed or not, has a seat, with a seatbelt, and if on the flight deck, has a quick-donning oxygen mask. Every airline out there that only grants one jumpseater for each seat on the flight deck needs to be targeted by their own and other pilots to fix their stupid policy. It just unecessarily leaves people behind.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
IDISA
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:46 am

Unfortunately is forbidden in Germany, you can try by asking (INNflight, I agree with you) the Captain if this would be possible, but chance is poor...
When I flew MXP-FCO-HAV on a A330-200 I asked the F/A if it would have been possible but she replied a with a strong "No way!"... Some Captain however may allow you to take a jumpseat, it only depends on who is the Captain, I think....

Regards

 
dc-10 levo
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:54 am

I would love to ride jumpseat but I always fly with charter companies and what's the chance of them letting me? I'm only 16 so would they even allow me? I'm travelling on Thomsonfly to Valencia on my own to stay with relatives next week and really want to ask them. Suppose there's no way of knowing unless you ask!

DC-10
 
AA777MIA
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:56 am

Basically it is very difficult to do, unless you work for that carrier. I rode jumpseat today from JFK to FLL.. Was awesome.. What a day!
 
DABZF
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:33 pm

Jumpseat flights on any German airline are forbidden by law...

Jumpseat rides are strictly forbidden since November 1st 2003 by German law.

Unfortunately is forbidden in Germany...


Apparently laws can be twitched and turned... this is a bit touchy issue because it is indeed illegal to have anybody else on the flight deck than the operating crew. However, it's up to the captain at the end if he wants to take the small risk by letting some one in the cockpit. I personally landed on a cockpit jumpseat earlier this year on LH flight (don't know if being staff helped at all)! So....
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
StanstedFlyer
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:45 pm

I've done it 3 times with BA to Montreal, but that was pre 9/11. Then I just asked to visit the flightdeck and chatted to the pilots. After about 5 minutes I plucked up the courage to ask and they said yes. In fact on 1 flight in a 747-400, there was 2 of us in there. I was behind the captain, and the other guy was in the middle seat behind and between. Everytime I ask now for a flightdeck visit it's a no with US carriers (understandable), and the last time I tried on the ground with a United crew, they were just too busy and made me feel like an annoyance.

Does anyone know if Air Canada are hospitable this way? Were going LHR - YYZ in December, Christmas day. Hopefully they'll be in a good mood!
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Skyway1
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RE: How To Ride Jumpseat

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:05 pm

FedEx employees can jumpseat on widebody aircraft, as they have a small number of seats onboard behind the cockpit. As stated above, employees cannot fly on aircraft with only a jumpseat in the cockpit(727-100 and 200's). Management has stated that they are working on reinstating the program for awhile now......but nothing has been put in place.

Chris

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