N901FRwolf
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:11 pm

Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:39 am

Well, first thing first. I got canned at Frontier. Personal difference between the IT Manger and me.

But that is not what this is about.

I applied for a CSA job with Alaska Airlines on thier website, and the last question they had in thier evaluation was "Have you used tobacco products in the last 6 months" which I answered "yes". They then informed me that I was disqualified for the position and may reapply in 6 months.

This made me a little angry, so I called up thier HR department and asked about that, and was informed that Alaska Airlines chooses to hire only non-smoking people.

This seemed Discriminatory for me so I looked up Colorado smoking laws (where the job was posted).

This is what i found:

It shall be a discriminatory or unfair employment practice for an employer to terminate the employment of any employee due to that employee engaging in any lawful activity off the premises of the employer during nonworking hours. Colorado Revised Statutes §24-34-402.5 (1990).

though it does say Terminate, this also can apply to hiring practices. I am bringing this up to them now (call back scheduled).
Frontier - A Whole Different Animal (Beach ball - check, Suntan lotion - Check, thong - check)
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:46 am

I have a feeling there is some special exception to this, simply because all of the hiring applications most likely have to go through a lawyer before they are posted, but I really don't know.

Good luck,
AAndrew
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:47 am

Alaska Airlines wants to maintain of certain level of integrity among their employees. It's no secret that higher productivity and more consistent attendance is a benefit of hiring non-smokers. If it's a habit away from work, it can easily become a habit at work. It's not that they're being discriminatory, they are just trying to maintain somewhat higher standards.
.......
 
oly720man
Posts: 5761
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:49 am

Jeez, what next. Having a glass of beer on 4th July? Aaaaahhhhhh, alcoholic person!!!!!

Not in any way wishing to bash our transatlantic cousins, but this seems ridiculous and really should be illegal. Have the health lunatics taken over??

Does it take 6 months for tobacco to leave the body??

Andy
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
longhaulheavy
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:52 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:51 am

Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!

Duh, duh-duh-duh, duh-duh-duh, duh-duh-duh-duh

Sorry...Beavis moment there.
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:53 am

I am sure you will be the first person to challenge their hiring policy. In fact, I'm quite sure Alaska started this tobacco policy without regard to its legality.

Yeah, right.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
ScottB
Posts: 5508
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:55 am

The law does not apply to you, as you are not an employee. For the most part, companies can discriminate in their hiring as they choose aside from what's impermissible by law (i.e. race, age, gender, non-relevant physical handicap, marital status, etc.).

And it's a valid concern for them, given that smokers are more likely to take more sick time and more breaks for a smoke, not to mention incurring higher health care costs on average.
 
Russophile
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:56 am

The company is based out of Seattle (SeaTac to be precise), Washington; so the company policies are governed by the state of Washington, not Colorado.

I don't think US laws are any different to ours.

Just because the company is based in another state doesn't mean that their policies are governed under Washington State laws. Their policies have to abide by the laws of the State in which the employment is -- in this case, Colorado.

If this isn't the case, then it is moot, but I wouldn't foresee it being much different to how it is here, and most other countries in that regard.

 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:59 am

Once employed the statute is completely fair. Until then though it is really their decision. Should have earned a few points for honesty.....but in today's world honesty is almost a liability, sorry to say.
 
BCAInfoSys
Posts: 2617
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:09 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:00 am

The company is based out of Seattle (SeaTac to be precise), Washington; so the company policies are governed by the state of Washington, not Colorado.

I don't think US laws are any different to ours.

Just because the company is based in another state doesn't mean that their policies are governed under Washington State laws. Their policies have to abide by the laws of the State in which the employment is -- in this case, Colorado.

If this isn't the case, then it is moot, but I wouldn't foresee it being much different to how it is here, and most other countries in that regard.


I realize that AS may be governed by local laws, but I wasn't 100% sure on how those things transfer from state to state. But I thought I'd bring it up as one possibility. I'm sure AS has done their homework and are in compliance with the law. And for some little drama queen to come around and make a blanket statement like "Alaska is Breaking the Law" is just plain stupid and horomonal if you ask me. This kid needs to get his plumbing checked.. something is obviously not flowing right.  Insane
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3737
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:02 am

I didn't think there was a law on smoking preference discrimination.
 
jmy007
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:18 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:02 am

I can understand AS reasoning some what. But it does go a bit far, if its a csa position.

But say if I was a tobacco user, but quit 3 months ago, to start a new way of living, and because I was truthful on my application, I was denied a job for those reasons (tobacco user), it would seems unfair, and discriminatory.

Which makes me think, there is more to this story........

"Well, first thing first. I got canned at Frontier. Personal difference between the IT Manger and me. "
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:09 am

Well, Russophile, it is different here.

I live in Massachusetts but worked for a company based in Florida. The company chose to treat me as a Florida employee and thus I was not covered by Massachusetts labor laws (however, I did have to pay Massachusetts taxes).

Likewise, the US Supreme Court recently ruled that New York state (and thus any state) can deny unemployment benefits to a resident of that state who is employed by an out-of-state company and considered by that company to be "statused" in the company's home state.

Thus, Alaska Air can refrain from hiring smokers if the position is statused in the state of Washington and complies with the laws there.
 
jc2354
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:13 am

I would check out the rules and regulations enforced by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission .

If all else fails, call the tobacco maker (Marlboro, Winston, etc). I'm positive that if anyone knew all the rules and regulations, they would certainly know.

Very interesting argument. I hope you will keep me updated.

Regards (and good luck)
Jack
If not now, then when?
 
N901FRwolf
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:13 am

BCAInfoSys-

no injustice is injustice, and I am pursuing it though legal means as well. You were very childish in it self for calling me a whiner.

Teenage drama? Where? I was concise and to the point. No woe-is-me crap, just outrage.

And as for your Seattle comment, incorrect. Companies have to follow local laws where they are hiring. The fact they are based in Seattle is Irrelevent to the Denver hiring situation.
Frontier - A Whole Different Animal (Beach ball - check, Suntan lotion - Check, thong - check)
 
USAirways737
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:20 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:15 am

It makes complete since not to hire smokers. AS pays for your benefits, therefore they have to look out for their bottom line. I'm sure their insurance provider gave them a better deal if they were to have a smoke free workforce.

Erik in MSP
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:18 am

I'd love to see the end of this and maybe AS management should get off their thumbs and go down to SEA's ramp and see whats goin' on! Then they can revise this rule.

[Edited 2004-07-03 00:21:53]
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
N901FRwolf
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:28 am

BCA, you are violating the rules and making personal attacks.
:::::
just think this kid a little immature and that would be the reasoning for his termination at F9 and for him handling this as poorly as he did.

Case in point: check his profile.

Interests: Aviation, cars, computer, games, cuties, Role Playing games (like AD&D)...umm...guys

I mean, I don't care: what, it, or who you are into, that is your business. But when you make a point of it like that, it just shows that you are really immature and don't know how to act like an adult in this world.

::::
did I say anything like (I don't know let me think of an example) my personal sexual practices in bed? No. I just listed interests. I happen to be interested in guys. The umm was mean as a little levity (as in trying to remember other things).

If you must know of Frontier(which for 2 YEARS I worked there with no problems, and several commendations for my CS skills), the IT managers wanted me to lockstep to HIS way, not just the computers, but down to taking notes on paper instead of using my PDA (which I know how my organizational skills work, I lose stuff if I write it down on paper, told him that, and he yelled at me about it.). And so I did it his way, and lost papers, and could not organise as effectively, and got yelled at for that. Any IT professional knows not everyone goes through troubleshooting steps in the same manner. That is not everything. I just put that prequel line on to let people know WHY I was applying for a job at another airline.

Your personal attack proves that you have no valid argument against this. You merely wish to feel superior by trying to make it personal. As for the title, I could not think of anything more succinct than what I used. Have a better recommendation? I will try to alter it.

to Jmy007: How can there be more to it? I JUST applied online not 2 hours ago.

[Edited 2004-07-03 00:32:08]
Frontier - A Whole Different Animal (Beach ball - check, Suntan lotion - Check, thong - check)
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:55 am

Why would Alaska want to change this rule and open the door to substandard employees that would create a bigger financial and cultural drain on the company? The rule makes perfect sense, and if you don't like it, there is no law that says you must work for Alaska.
.......
 
tcfc424
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:59 am

A lot of companies have taken to this practice, especially in Florida. I am a fire fighter, and if I were to desire employment as a fire fighter in Florida, I would have to become "tobacco free" as they do not hire tobacco users. What is the reasoning? Remember the tobacco lawsuits? People suing Marlboro and the like for cancer because they didn't read the warning labels that said "This product can cause cancer..." That is the reason. If you develop cancer during your employment or retirement, the company wants to know that if it gets sued for causing the cancer that THEY actually caused it, not Marlboro, Skoal, etc. It may not seem like a fair practice (and I don't agree with it) but I do understand it. The companies do it to protect themselves, and as long as they do it uniformly, meaning that it applies to every employee...every applicant, then it is more than likely legal. Since you are unemployed, check out the classified ads...notice EVERY dry cleaner requires non-smokers...etc.

 
san2snow
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:46 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:03 am

This website talks a bit about why companies can discriminate against hiring smokers

http://ash.org/papers/h220.htm

Here is another article from Orlando that mentions that this has been brought before the US Supreme Court and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and won both time.

http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2000/01/31/story3.html
If you want to improve, Be content to be thought foolish and stupid
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:03 am

though it does say Terminate, this also can apply to hiring practices.

Says who? You can't make your own laws. It clearly states terminate. They cannot terminate you until they hire you.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:04 am

I'd love to see the end of this and maybe AS management should get off their thumbs and go down to SEA's ramp and see whats goin' on! Then they can revise this rule.

Why don't you reread the post.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:07 am

There is not really such a thing as getting fired for 'personal' differences--that would be retaliatory on the actions of your employer. Likely your behavior was insubordinate or performance subpar---anyway...you're not there.

While employers may not discriminate on based on religion, color, national origin, etc....they CAN discriminate on education, qualifications, common sense, and chose those employees who best fit their criteria for maintaining a a healthy company (as long as the former are not infringed).

Companies can, and do discriminate against smokers. I applaud them for this effort.

If you want to smoke, go work for Phillip Morris.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:10 am

Too bad they couldn't see the AS employee with a cigarette in his mouth while pulling up the push-back to flight 21 on 6.28.2004.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:25 am

If you created a fuss about this, even though you might get the job, everyone there will dislike you, most likely, and your work will be very unpleasant. I think ATA might be hiring in DEN...

AAndrew
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:37 am

Why don't you just move on and look for another job?

The following airlines are taking applications at Denver.

AirTran -- http://www.airtran.com/aboutus/employ/custServProf.jsp
American -- http://aacareers.com/
Great Lakes -- http://www.greatlakesav.com/html/current_jobs.html
JetBlue -- http://www.jetblue.com/workhere/index.aspx

[Edited 2004-07-03 01:41:31]
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:48 am

Another thing....a cutting-edge forward-thinking airline like jetBlue or even AirTran won't be looking for people of your caliber. Your thread made your personality quite transparent. Even at American, you'll find their senior employees will not have tolerance for you...something you could call "differences". Great Lakes is a much smaller workgroup and your true self will be discovered far more quickly.

.......
 
n757kw
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:07 am

I would be curios to know the actual reason behind this requirement. If I had to hazard a guess, I think it has more to do with Insurance costs more than anything else. A smoker might have more insurance claims than a non-smoker, in the long run costing the Insurance company, airline, and employ more money.

N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:11 am

I work in NYC, where you cannot smoke tobacco products anyplace but your personal residence or outside of a building. This includes no smoking in bars, clubs, resturants which used to let you smoke there. Remember you used to be able to smoke on aircraft many years ago. Now, there are only a few airlines or their countries that allow smoking in flight. Almost all airports in the USA don't allow smoking in any indoor facility. I do not smoke, never did, but with the exception of some jobs where other hazards exist (firefighter, police, manufacturing of products that may harm the lungs), if you smoke away from the job, then it's none of the employer's business. You may have to pay more for life and health insurance with some employers if you are a smoker. According to the link, there are numerous laws and court decisions that allow denial of employment or termination because of smoking. Is it fair? In many ways not, but then again, life isn't always fair. Better find an IT job in another field where smoking off-duty isn't a problem.
 
ha763
Posts: 3170
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:27 am

If there are employees smoking on the ramp, I would warn everyone that smoking is not allowed on the ramp and if caught there will be consequences. Then if I catch someone smoking on the ramp, I would at the least suspend them.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:35 am

Alaska Airlines wants to maintain of certain level of integrity among their employees. It's no secret that higher productivity and more consistent attendance is a benefit of hiring non-smokers.

Bull, this is about lower insurance premuims for the company, that is all.

They had this rule back in 94 when I worked there. Everybody that was working there when the rule came into being was grandfathered in.

Note the law applied to current employee's, the question is legit for screening purposes.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
nearord
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:16 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:39 am

I think that the line about it costing more for insurance is funny.

They should then also ask if you have eaten fast food in the last 6 months, whether you have been to a gym in the last 6 months, if you are HIV positive, If you are overweight, If you have any diseases that might make you more expensive, if you run 3 times a week, if you are taking any medications, ect ect.

Can you imagine the lawsuit they would face if they said, "we are not hiring any employees over 200 pounds, because they cost us more in insurance." Or what about, We won't hire anyone with diabities because they cost more.

I think they have a right to hire anyone they see fit, however, once hired, what then? They can't fire you if you start after you have been hired. I think the best answer would be to charge more for insurance for employees that do smoke. That way, it doesn't cost the company anymore.

I just find it funny that in an industry where a large percentage of employees eat fast food regularly, they complain about smokers.

 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1781
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:47 am

So you wanted to use your PDA to take notes, etc, instead of paper. Maybe they want them on paper so they can be filed away with other documents, something you can't do with a PDA. Where I work we have to conform to consistent standards, as most companies expect. Your lack of disorganisation is your responsability to resolve, not your employerers. If you worked for me, and continued to refuse to conform to what was asked of you that would constitute refusing to follow a reasonable request, resulting in disciplinary proceedings. Failure after those to follow would be constituted as gross misconduct, which could lead to dismissal. I prefer using computers for keeping records, but where I have to use paper to suit the company requirements I do. End of. Take that chip off your shoulder and move on. You might get somewhere. Or are you planning to sue for breach of human rights?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:48 am

As a private company, Alaska can choose whoever they wish to hire for whatever reasons they can fathom. I mean, it's THEIR company....not a federal or state institution. If it were MY company I would insist upon having the final call, period! Either that or I'm moving my operation to Europe/Asia. Telling a private company what they can and cannot do is not freedom.

Two years ago and for 22 years previous I was a 2 pack a day Marlboro/Winston smoker. I quit cold turkey with no gum, no injections or patches. YES it was hard but I was determined to not let ANYTHING control me....afterall I spent 16 years as a happy healthy youth with absolutely zero desire for a cigarette, so what's the big deal? That's over $2,800 dollars I have saved so far without cigs....imagine that!!!! It's like getting a raise or something.....

Peace!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:05 am

In Colorado, according to GASP of Colorado, it is legal for an employer to not hire a smoker. Their website says:

Questions About Colorado's "Smokers' Rights" Law
Question: Is it legal to refuse to hire smokers?
Answer: Yes, says the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission -- unless the result is discrimination on the basis of national origin, race, sex, and age (Wall Street Journal, April 1982). Smoking is an acquired characteristic. Employers may refuse to hire people based on acquired characteristics such as job record, education, performance, absenteeism, drug/alcohol use, etc.

Question: May a business hire only nonsmokers?
Answer: Businesses may continue to hire and advertise for nonsmokers. Many employers continue to do so as evidenced by the various want ads for "nonsmokers only" in newspapers. Businesses may also have a policy that states they hire only nonsmokers.


http://www.gaspforair.org/gasp/gedc/artcl-new.php?ID=99

That page also says someone can be fired if they lied about being a nonsmoker.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:19 am

If there are employees smoking on the ramp, I would warn everyone that smoking is not allowed on the ramp and if caught there will be consequences. Then if I catch someone smoking on the ramp, I would at the least suspend them.

But they say on their page that they will terminate anyone who uses tobacco.

It clearly states terminate
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5508
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:55 am

Companies can also fire you for being untruthful on an employment application; for example, if you were to falsely say that you hadn't used tobacco in the past six months.

In any case, the title of this thread is potentially libelous since it is stated as an exclamation.
 
oznznut
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:04 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:19 am

As I was nearing graduation from Cochise College and obtaining my A & P ticket I started to fill out an application for Alaska Airlines. Right on the front page it said that if you used tobacco products in any form, do not apply. Makes sense to me. They are trying to keep down their health care costs, keep the aircraft cleaner, reduce "secondhand smoke" lawsuits, etc. They are not being discriminatory. It is a condition of employment. You may believe that it is your right to smoke. So be it. It is their right not to hire you. I do think that it would be another animal if you were hired, and then they said that you weren't permitted to use tobacco. That could be a problem.
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:14 pm

Goodness me. When I saw the topic I thought it about not lubricating jack screws on MD-80s or having pilot standards sufficiently high to ensure that no member of a cockpit crew could fail to notice if a beacon was missed approaching Juneau
in poor visibility. But good to know Alaskan has set its sights on something more vital, concerning employee free time.
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:27 pm

What have we all learned from this post:

STOP SMOKING!!!!!!!

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:48 pm

Ok let me clairify about what AS drug-free policy is really about:

When you apply with AS, they WILL ask you if you have used nicotine products within the last 6 months. More than likely people will say no just so that they can get hired. I might add that they are very, very, very picky on who they hire, just like WN.

When I was hired on with AS back in 1998, they have asked me a few times to make sure that I am not a nicotine user. For this reason, I didnt know why at the time but I found it pretty strange. Honestly, I am not a nicotine user. The term 'nicotine' in AS terms includes the following: Ciggarettes, cigars, chew or any tobacco related products.

Anyway, shortly after I was hired, the MX department heads had a meeting with all 3 shifts about the no smoking policy on hangar grounds and about the 'contract' you signed when hired to not smoke on property. Alot of mechanics objected to the rule and didnt see why it was a bothersome problem with the company. The whole idea was to LOWER INSURANCE PREMIUMS and LIABILITY prevention. AS does not want to be liable for 'injuries' related to smoking on their property. Now, this is a very sensitive topic at AS HQ and around the company. There are more to it than just that when it comes to that issue which I do not know and could care less.

Ive never seen AS take action against an AS employee for smoking on AS property or around the Port of Seattle. But I do know that the Port of Seattle has a strict no smoking policy on the ramps. (Does anyone follow that rule or does the POS Police enforce it...guess not...)

The point is, its AS policy regardless. They dont even have to hire you and its not even discrimination either. Its their policy, plain and simple. They can do whatever they want, its their airline.

Oh, I might even point out. Go to their corporate office and you'll see etched on their front doors a disclaimer that states: "Notice to applicants: We hire only nicotine free applicants, if you have used nicotine products within the last 6 months, we are not interested in you."

Don't be surprised at this, everyone working at AS knows about this disclaimer. Its nothing new.

So is AS breaking the law? No, they are well within their rights. Its their airline. If they feel that it disrupts their business, they have the right to enforce that rule. Like I said, its a very sensitive issue at AS.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
United4everDEN
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:26 pm

I certainly am not going to hire anyone who might smell like tobacco or someone who cannot smoke during work and it ends up taking their mind off work. I think smoking is disgusting, why don't you try quiting? You are not only putting your health at risk, you are putting others' at risk too.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

AS Is Breaking The LAW!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:30 pm

Thanks for the clarification AirframeAS. Too bad I live so far from Chicago or Seattle (Southcentral Wisconsin), or I'd apply for AS. I've never smoked or done 'chew'.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
FullThrottle
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:39 pm

As an AS intern I got checked 2 weeks ago on my first day for 5 drugs (weed, cocaine, meth, ect...) alcohol and Nicotine. That is no problem for me and I have no problem with out having smokers around.
AS cares about the employees and it is good that they don't allow smoking. It is a fact: non-smokers live longer than smokers.
That is my.02 on the subject. Take care.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:45 pm

I also wanted to add something that FullThrottle reminded me about:

AS wants to be sure that they can get many years of service from their employees. Thats another reason why AS has that policy. I just forgot to add that.

Smcmac32msn: Yer welcome  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

AS Policy

Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:55 pm

I wish our company (Wisconsin Aviation) would adopt that policy...... just to on the grounds, not so much personal life, but on the clock - no smoking! Would make my life a lot easier, tryin' to park 3 planes while 5 ppl are out smokin their lives away.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
optionscle
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:08 am

RE: Alaska Airlines Breaking The Law!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:27 pm

Smcmac32msn,

Amen! I work for Corporate Wings in Cleveland and let me tell you, it can get busy sometimes just because a bunch of guys decided to go smoke and leave the work to the rest of us. Our company is soon to adopt a no-chewing policy, and next should be a complete no-smoking policy as well. It's a step in the right direction if you ask me. No smelly employees and you get about an extra 1/4-1/2 man hour out of each smoking employee per day, that adds up!

-Andrew
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

AS Is Breaking The LAW!

Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:32 pm

OptionsCLE - Yes it does add up. 1/4 x 10 (days/pay period) = 2.5 hours. Is Corporate Wings at Burke Lakefront or is it at the same place that CO flys out of?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
N901FRwolf
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines May Not Be Breaking The Law

Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:33 pm

Well.

To those who gave interesting, informed answers, and pointed out my error, thank you. And the person who posted the AA, B6, ATA job postings, thank you as well.

For you who thought it was good to get on your soapbox and make personal attacks, I can only laugh. Got angry at first, but then just laughed.

BTW Fly Caledonian, if you finished reading, I DID as he asked finally and did paper and pencil. And no, he didn't WANT the papers for his reference, he just wanted me doing notes his way. Again, please finish reading.

FATFlyer, the statute I quoted supercedes GASP's (an anti-smoking group) page, for they do not state where it asks on the FEDERAL level, where it is legal, but on the STATE level. To quote thier page:

---
Answer: Yes, says the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
---

I am well aware on the federal level it is legal, hence why they can do it in Washington, becuase WA does not have a law that says otherwise. However, Colorado has the "smokers right" law.


That being said, as the starter of this thread, I think one day was sufficent, and we should discontinue it.

Again, for those that answered with logical, thoughtful answers pertaining to the law and possible happenings, Thank you.

For you that resorted to (not limited, but including) looking in my profile and stretching out to make personal attacks? I am laughing, and suggested your post for deletion.

Good day
Frontier - A Whole Different Animal (Beach ball - check, Suntan lotion - Check, thong - check)

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