QANTASpower
Posts: 515
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Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:09 am

Virgin Blue has applied to the Fed Govt for rights to fly to LAX & San Fran from Australia's East Coast. They are talking about 6 x 744's.

They intend to set up a new company which has to be 51% Australian owned.

I hope they do as I would rather have an Australian airline access this route rather than Govt backed SIA.

I would say this could lead though to SIA trying to buy into Virgin Blue. QF will then have more chance of getting Air New Zealand.

It will all fall into place over the next 18 months.

Good luck to them!

QFP

[Edited 2004-07-07 01:11:56]
 
QANTASpower
Posts: 515
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:34 am

Further on this issue:-

The Flying Cockroach will be trying hard for a SIA buy in so they can use the Virgin name. Hopefully SIA will not make the same mistake twice and but into another Branson venture.

I would expect QF to increase capacity on this route shortly.

Maybe SIA can send over some of their used 744's for the flying roach to use.

QANTASpower
 
southpac
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:06 am

Isn't Virgin Blue's business plan primarily concerned in offering low-cost services within Australia and NZ? And furthermore, doesn't this move into larger aircraft operating long-haul services go against this "Virgin-franchise" trend?

Personally I would rather see an Australian airline take advantage of this American-Australian market than a foreign airline!
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:31 am

Is it possible that VS actually does this route???

I think a LCC for Long Haul will NOT work.

However I can already picture the success for VS if they operate this route (with their UCS)

This will kill UA definitely!
 
QANTASpower
Posts: 515
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:42 am

VS is a foreign carrier and like SIA cannot access this route. The new carrier will be 51% Aussie owned and hence can fly the route.

It will not be low cost and will have multi classes just like VS.
 
Q330
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:51 am

Looks like virgin is trying to take over the world!  Laugh out loud It will definitely be interesting to see how this turns out.

It will not be low cost and will have multi classes just like VS.

Then I guess it won't be Virgin Blue itself, but another division like Pacific Blue.

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
ACAfan
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:19 am

Why not call it Virgin Pacific?
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
travel
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:20 am

It would be quiet interesting to see a Virgin Blue and a SQ alliance. Maybe Virgin Blue may have a portion of a fully serviced airline and a low cost airline.
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:26 am

As long as they have the UCS and I can earn points on Kris Flyer or Vlying Club, I don't really care what they call it.

This will definitely hurt both UA and QF!
 
aerohottie
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:41 am

I dont see any problem with VS operating the AU-US routes, as long as they are classed as through flights from the UK via US-AU/NZ. This would allow VS to have a better chance of operating this route rather than SQ. The bilateral between AU/US would not nessesarily opposse this type of action by VS.
What?
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:03 am

So they can do a RTW trip like:

LHR-HKG-SYD-SFO-LHR

Sounds like a GREAT idea!
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:24 am

Would DJ use the B744s to open up other routes?
 
Sydscott
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:55 am


"They are talking about 6 x 744's."

Is that 6 744 services per week or 6 747's??? The application isn't on the IASC website yet.

Either way I doubt this will seriously dent QF's profitability on the route. IT may even force them to re-start services to SFO which would be great. QF will add services to LAX as fares get lower and will move to a profitability in bulk model rather than carrying fewer pax at a higher fare.

"I dont see any problem with VS operating the AU-US routes, as long as they are classed as through flights from the UK via US-AU/NZ."

Fat chance of that happening. There is a little airline called Qantas that will ensure that!!!!!
 
southpac
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:09 pm

Go Sydscott!!

Qantas are far too powerful to allow Virgin to gain access into the AU-US market!

A perfect example of this is are the efforts by QF to keep SQ from gaining fifth-freedom rights from Australia. SQ and the Singaporean government have continually pushed for changes to the Air Services Bilateral Agreement between Australia and Singapore - and the Australian government have continually pushed the request to the bottom of the priority list.

And guess who's lobbying the government to do so?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:28 pm

They are flying widebodies. Bye low fares, Bye cash, Bye DJ!!!
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 555
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:59 pm

I wonder if this has anything to do with the new Virgin USA/America brand under development. Interestingly, SFO has been chosen as its hub (on the west coast).

Good luck Virgin. These are some exciting times!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Happy flying!

Travis/LAX
 
vsfullthrottle
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:59 pm

I heard from a DJ duty manager that they were looking at operating to the west coast of the US but I heard that they were looking at Airbus though (the A330 or A340), allthough this was about 2 months ago.

I think this would be a great move by the DJ, and I cant wait to see it.
 
wirraway
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:37 pm

AFP
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM (AEST)

Virgin Blue considering challenging Qantas on Australia-US route

Discount airline Virgin Blue said it was considering flying from Australia to the US west coast, directly challenging flag carrier Qantas' monopoly on one of its most lucrative routes.

Virgin Blue spokeswoman Amanda Bolger said the idea was "embryonic" at this stage but the expansion was definitely on the airline's agenda.

"We haven't lodged a formal application with the government yet but we have expressed interest," she told AFP. "You have to get the ball rolling early with these things because they have such a long lead-in time."

Bolger said the idea of flying to the US west coast was one of about 15 concepts generated by a business development unit that Virgin Blue set up earlier this year.

"This one of the the long-term possibilities it's come up with, were also looking at opportunities in China, in India, were considering a lot of ideas," she said.

Flying to the west coast would ratchet up the already intense rivalry between Qantas and Virgin Blue, the low-cost airline that has snatched more than 30 percent of the Australian domestic market since it was set up by British tycoon Richard Branson in 2001.

Qantas hit back earlier this year with the launch of its own discount airline Jetstar.

The latest Virgin Blue proposal would see the airline taking on Qantas head-to-head in the international market for the first time.

It would also involve the airline moving away from its highly successful no-frills formula into full-service international flights and would require major investment in about six long-haul aircraft such as Boeing 747s or 777s.

The Australian government could also expect sharp questioning from Singapore if it gave Virgin Blue permission to fly the Australia-Los Angeles route.

Singapore Airlines has long sought to have the route included under an "open skies" arrangement with Australia but has been frustrated by concerted lobbying by Qantas in Canberra.

Australian officials most recently refused to break the Qantas monopoly last September, saying the airline industry had not yet recovered sufficiently from shocks such as SARS and the Iraq war.

Qantas shares were down eight cents or 2.25 percent at 3.47 dollars (2.47 US) and Virgin Blue was down one cent of 0.5 percent at 2.00 dollars in early trading.
Wednesday July 7, 10:52 AM

AFP

============================================

 
VH-BZF
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:38 pm

Well now I've heard it all!

Quite frankly I think VB should stick to what it does semi-well & that is flying as a LCC in the South Pacific using B737's. They would fail miserably if they tried to mount a big international operation like the one mooted above! But then again that might be a good thing?


You know my thoughts on this airline & the one across the pond!

Cheers - BZF  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
antares
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:50 pm

Virgin Blue hasn't yet formerly applied to the Federal Government for transPac.

There is the slight problem of not knowing who will in fact form the next Federal Government, and the latest goss is that the election will be on August 28.

But at the announcement of its last full year results it included a note that the media failed to digest which said that a unit looking at new business opportunities had been set up to explore growth from outside the Australian and New Zealand domestic and transTas catchments and that it was forbidden from distracting the LCC from its core preoccupation with domestic Australia.

The company that operates such longer haul routes, to North America, China and other destinations inaccessible to non-stop 737s will have to be 51% Australian owned for bilateral treaty access. And a Singapore Airlines involvement cannot be ruled out as SQ has a new management team which has put the clash over the establishment of Virgin Blue and its rebuff of a sell out to the dying Ansett into the ancient history basket.

However SQ's stated goal is to fly the transPac routes in its own rights, exploiting the open skies arrangements now more or less in place in all three countries. It too has said that it will wait until it knows who forms the next government before taking matters further.

In my assessment, Virgin Blue has not yet decided exactly what sort of service it will offer, or what sort of equipment it would use, other than to recognise that at the very least there should be a product be in super economy or the full business class suite treatment as well as one for price driven leisure or business flyers.

 
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VS4ever
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:55 pm

VH-BSF

Just curious as to why you think Virgin Blue would fail at an international operation, when they can draw on the expertise gained from VS?

Putting the obvious dislike of all things Sir Richard aside. What are your thoughts on the way Aus-US should be, United and Quantas alone? many other markets around the world have more than 2 airlines serving it, why shouldn't this one?

One thing I do agree on, is the fact that, an LCC approach will not work for such a long-haul flight, the comfort factor on these flights is just too important.

I for one, don't see a problem with this. I hope it works out.

VS and DJ 4ever.
Bring Back Orion Airways, you were the best!
 
soups
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:58 pm

that should be fab ill look forward to get on one of them any launch date yet?
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
wirraway
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:00 pm

As in the AFP news report this would be a full service carrier:

It would also involve the airline moving away from its highly successful no-frills formula into full-service international flights and would require major investment in about six long-haul aircraft such as Boeing 747s or 777s.

Wirraway
 
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legacyins
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:12 pm

Hypothetical of course. A passenger flies from Australia to SFO on Virgin Blue and connects domestically on Virgin America or to London on Virgin Atlantic. There sure are a lot of Virgins in the World  Smile
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:21 pm

THat is why I said just then Lefacyins.

All I want to add is if the UCS are offered then it is Good, But if they offer the shitty seats like the ones used domestically, then forget it!
QF is bad enough already


I think the SYD-LAX/SFO routes is one of the Long HAul routes where the product offerings = WEAK!
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:55 pm

VH-BZF

You know my thoughts on this airline & the one across the pond!
For once in your life would you grow up and stop acting like a little child who has just lost their favourite toy. The reason Air NZ is very successfull now is because NZ got out of AN when the people at NZ relised that AN was going to murder NZ because AN was draining all of NZ's money.

What has Virgin Blue got to do with NZ, Star Alliance and the callopse of Ansett? You should be pleased that DJ took on hundreds on AN staff. Would you rather that DJ stopped operations and you and millions of over Australians look forward to QF raising their fares and QF cancelling all of Jetstar's operations because of no more competition?

Now back to the real topic.

I hope DJs plan does work as the AU-US route does need more competition and it would help all Australians and everyone else as they would have more choice and the fares would come down on the route due to more competition. If QF and UA have fares at $1800 economy one way (I'm not saying the fares are this high as I don't know what the correct fares are) and DJ have fares at $1500 economy one way and have food included in the fare or offer less food and also offer the passengers extra food if they would like to pay for the extra food. DJ can make this work.
 
anstar
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:02 pm

Good news for competiition. Virgin seem to be after United. What with plans to do Australia-US services & Virgin America in SFO eik!

Lets hope they do it a la Virgin Atlantic style.
 
AASuper83
Posts: 151
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:12 pm

this is going to be great, going to SFO imo. I hope that Virgin Blue starts up flying to GUM as well, as I am going to school in the states, and this would offer a cost-effective way for me to get home.

Fly AA
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:43 pm

wow...that's impossible...I cannot imagine to see the Virgin Pacific's B744s will have all red livery. None of the airlines has painted all red livery for the B744s. But it will be a chance to see Virgin Pacific to fly to LAX as soon as possible
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
United Airline
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:49 pm

Guess Virgin Blue wants new planes, not second hand ones.
 
southpac
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:50 pm

I have to agree with VH-BZF. And I am a New Zealander too!!

As I said earlier, VOZ is a "low-cost-carrier" and should stick to its business plan. To start an international airline operating polar opposite characteristics to its current operation would be so far distant from its, and Bransons low-cost brand - ie: Virgin Express, VOZ, Pacific Blue, and the new Virgin USA.

If Branson wants his brand in the US-AU market, then he should do it with Virgin Atlantic, and leave VOZ to do what it does well!
 
QF744
Posts: 327
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:17 pm

first of all, this is extremely doubtful and totally unrealistic!

there are a few things against Virgin Blue in this one:

-the cost of having to lease/purchase 6 744s or 340s;

-the cost of marketing of the route in Australia and the USA - they would have to go heavy here;

-can you really see Virgin Blue with business class? Didn't think so... you can't just rely on Y class for SYD-LAX (or SFO)... make no money in the fares at all... Qantas would have an average of AUD$10,000 return per J class ticket, on avg x55 seats filled on each Aus-USA flight and look at the numbers! Qantas will eat them for breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner and dessert!!

-gound/reservation/airport staff etc in LAX/SFO, plus offices in their base city;

-landing fees at SFO/LAX would cost a packet - i dare say considerably more than their current fees in Australia;

-Virgin Blue refuse to go any bigger than 738s & 739s - they want "fleet commonality" as they say. Why would they jump to 744s?;

-They have increased their code share on UA... what would UA think if Virgin went Trans-Pacific?;

My theory is that SQ are behind this "push" and are probably throwing DJ fully kitted out two-class 744s complete with pilots etc because SQ aren't allowed to fly the route!

I would love to see it happen, but realistically it won't!

QF744

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
AA717driver
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:57 pm

I've been saying Branson wanted to link up all the Virgin branded airlines to circle the globe for a year, now. Remember, this is not Virgin Blue, it will be a new company which is 51% OZ owned. Everyone knows 100% low frills won't work. I think this will be a mirror-image of Virgin Atlantic with low cost coach service and high-end FC/Biz classes. IMO.

The marketing issue is a no brainer. Everyone in the U.S. will know about the Virgin brand(the young people already know through Virgin Mobile and Virgin music) through VAmerica and it will take little marketing to introduce the VPacific routes to the OZ and US customers.

Virgin haters can fume all you want, but this train has left the station.TC
FL450, M.85
 
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yyz717
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:04 pm

A Virgin Blue entry into SYD-LAX would be a direct attack against one of QF's primary intl routes. Yields would drop. The QF order for 380's would be reviewed.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Qantasflyer
Posts: 390
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:16 pm

Qantas will eat them for breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner and dessert!!

Well said QF744!

Regards
Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:43 pm

Actually I don't think Virgin needs to do too much advertising in AUS as many people knows about Virgin already (Virgin Megastore, Virgin Mobile etc...)

"Qantas will eat them for breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner and dessert!!"

Well just make sure QF don't bite off more than they can Chew!

By Offering the VS Premium products, QF's Skybeds is just no where near comparable!
 
antares
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Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:05 pm

Well the speculation didn't do the Qantas share price much good after its recent roll, closing 10 cents down at $3.45.

While I'd like to see the new carrier (which will have different ownership and management to the LCC) with 744s I wonder from where. CX is complaining it can't get enough.

All sorts of 'wild' possibilities spring to mind. Branson has good relations with Emirates and they have money, planes and an oil field or two. But that is just a wild idea of mine, as this seems to be a forum for pretty far out notions from time to time...and why not!

If service was to start late 2005 or sometime in 2006 I'm not sure they could get 777-300ERs in time. Maybe VS would bump them some of its original 343s, which would have the right capacity for non-stops from Brisbane, and involve little risk out of Sydney no matter what capacity Qantas adds to the route.

I think some of the responses so far have not given enough weight to the brand power of Virgin, although Qantas is Australia's strongest brand according to surveys published in recent times. Qantas is exposed to both NZ and the new Virgin entity (should it fly) in that a great business class Sky Bed has been too late in coming to head off the Sky Suites both will certainly use.

Incidentally, in none of the reports I have read from the US about Virgin USA is there a clear indication of whether it will be like JetBlue or something with a more spacious configuration. Branson is unpredictable. If he thinks he has missed the opportunity to be a Southwest or JetBlue he might try something else even though the cost base will undoubtably be low cost.
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:23 pm

"great business class Sky Bed has been too late in coming to head off the Sky Suites both will certainly use."

WELL SAID! QF is TOO LATE!
 
southpac
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:55 pm

I am deeply saddened by your lack of patriotism Antares and Cx123 - at least you have an national carrier you can be proud of!

Furthermore,

"Qantas is exposed to both NZ and the new Virgin entity......"

I think QF needs not worry about being 'exposed' to Air Old Zealand.... QF is a powerhouse of aviation in comparison to its competitor across the ditch!
 
airbear
Posts: 607
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:56 pm

QF desperately needs some real competition on AU-US routes. It has been easy until now for QF to count on general public opinion re foreign airlines competeing on "our" turf, e.g. SQ , EK or CX, when bleating about "national interest" to whomever in govt. cares to listen to them on any given day. But it will be far more difficult to pull this trick off yet again, when the other carrier involved is a) Australian-owned (yeah...yeah.. only 50%, I know...) and b) is Virgin Blue. So, it will happen, if Branson/Godfrey/Corrigan really want it to.

I'd fly them as long as a) it wasn't just a long-haul cattle truck and b) there were FF points to be earned in a FF program associated with some other o'seas program such as Krisflyer or Flying Club.

On the other hand, I don't know if I could stomach 14 hours of face-painting ; old, obvious off-colour jokes; and the typical VB Blonds (known on other carriers as FA's) yakking to each other all night, when the pax around them are trying to sleep (as per a DRW/SYD midnight-horror flight, 11/03).
 
jt8
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:57 pm

By now Qantas would have to be thinking of introducing Aus-US flights on Australian to A) discourage Virgin or B) Have an established low cost carrier servicing the route before Virgin begins it's operation. This would of course depend on Qantas securing further rights to fly to the US and whether or not Australian introduces 747 to its fleet which it was planning on flying to Europe.
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:00 pm

Just because I live in the country and I am an Australian that does not mean I can't state the obvious!
Qf is good compared to many airlines, but they have monopoloise the market for way too long. It really requires someone (eg. Sir Richard) to come can stir them up a bit).
 
southpac
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:06 pm

I agree with you Cx123, QF probably does need a shake-up on the US market - but this idea of Virgin Blue being in charge of such a huge proposal - so different from its current operation - is hard to swallow!

Why would Virgin want to set up an operation in Aust. just to compete on the US-AU runs? It makes far more sense for Virgin Atlantic to operate the route than fund an entirely new venture!
 
cx123
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:09 pm

I know. If it is VS = Fine
But if it is DJ then No thanks!

I am really looking forward on the VS flight from SYD-HKG later this year (Hopefully! Subject to Government Approval!)
 
southpac
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:16 pm

Top remark Cx123, top remark!

I'd certainly support VS if they came down-under.. I think many would!

p.s. Maybe when they have given QF a shake-up they could come and do the same to Air Old Zealand???
 
cx123
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:19 pm

No need for VS to join Star Alliance. Simply form its own Alliance VIRGIN!
 
southpac
Posts: 18
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:27 pm

So where next for the new Virgin Alliance?

China, South America and perhaps South Africa - I can see it now... Virgin Springbok.....

p.s. Better stop plugging the Virgin Alliance thing... might wake up tomorrow to find someone has started a new thread ..."VIRGIN TO CREATE ITS OWN MEGA-ALLIANCE" (hehe)
 
antares
Posts: 1367
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:47 pm

Southpac,

Since I arrived in Australia in 1939 I have become a loyal and patriotic Australian. As a New Zealand member I'm surprised that you would question my patriotism, a cheap slur, and bag your own national carrier.

I think NZ has done a pretty good job of recovering from the mismanagement that occured before and during the Ansett disaster. And I have much respect for the 'good' Qantas, and regret that I usually seem to end up on the 'bad' Qantas. I have never seen such variable personal service standards in a carrier.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
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RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:49 pm

"..."VIRGIN TO CREATE ITS OWN MEGA-ALLIANCE"
Hey, you've got to admit man, they are pretty much on their way. I remember seeing Richard Branson on a billboard in Newmarket, Auckland saying something about creating a huge airline empire.

Yes, I agree with you guys, No one would go by DJ, but they would by VS. And Virgin already has it's own alliance (with all the virgin brands and SQ as well), seeing as SQ owns something like 50% of it...lol.  Big grin
 
southpac
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Virgin Blue To Fly SYD - LAX

Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:52 pm

Where in Newmarket was the billboard?

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