Matterhorn
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Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:16 am

i was just browsing through a.net's database and saw a picture where a plane was departing AMS from rwy 18C. i know that AMS does have three parallel runways which are called 18L, 18C and 18R.
my question now: if AMS would build another runway which would be parallel to those other three, how would it be called? 18X?

as far as i know AMS is able to operate these three simultaneosly wheras this is not possible in ATL or LAX. do you guys know any airports which are able to operate four runways simultaneosly?
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njdevilsin03
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:21 am

How many Runways are at Orlando? is it 3 parallels or 4?
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desertjets
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:23 am

I am not sure if there is any airport that is capable of quadruple independent approaches right now. Perhaps DEN as all the runways are well spaced out. DFW might be able to once the 6th n/s parallel is built.

If AMS built a 4th parallel it would likely be numbered 17L, 17R, 18L, 18R or 18L, 18R, 19L, 19R.
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xjramper
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:23 am

Not exactly parallel, but ATL has 8L/R and 9L/R and they definitely use these simultaneously. But I do not think that there are any airports that have more than three exact parallel runways.

XJR
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phollingsworth
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:27 am

i was just browsing through a.net's database and saw a picture where a plane was departing AMS from rwy 18C. i know that AMS does have three parallel runways which are called 18L, 18C and 18R.
my question now: if AMS would build another runway which would be parallel to those other three, how would it be called? 18X?

as far as i know AMS is able to operate these three simultaneosly wheras this is not possible in ATL or LAX. do you guys know any airports which are able to operate four runways simultaneosly?


They would just change the number, here in ATL, we have 8R-26L, 8L-26R, 9R-27L, and 9L-27R. Soon we will have 10-28. As for simultaneous operations. ATL can operate their runways simultaneously in visual weather. Though it must be mixed operations, i.e. 8R & 8L cannot be used for simultaneous landings, an arrival and departure are required. Only, 8L-26R and 9R-27L can currently be used for simultaneous instrument arrivals, departures on the inner runways are still allowed depending on the conditions. Since ATL has pretty even arrival-departure load, DL having so many flights a day, this isn't a real problem (actually the airport is very near its 24 hour capacity). When 10-28 is added ATL will be setup for 3 simultaneous instrument arrivals. Also 10-28 does a whole lot to add poor weather capacity, but not much to add fair weather capacity, because it puts a large strain on the taxi facilities (there are no end around taxi-ways so 10-28 traffic must cross two runways).
 
luisca
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:27 am

XJRamper Wrote

"not exaclty parallel"
Actually they are paralell, just that when you have more than 3 runways facing the same direction you name two with the correct number and the other two with the next number for example, a heading of 180 would be 18, so you would have 18R 18L and 19R 19L
I think Denver can have four simultaneous approches (paralell)
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northstardc4m
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:30 am

actually ATLs 4 ARE exactly parallel, as are LAX's, 5 of DFWs and probably a few more.

They are numbered 8/9 just to avoid having to call all 4 the same thing. Imagine the confusing nature of 9A/B/C/D or similar... Left/Right is much clearer.

MCO has 3 runways but im not sure if 17 is exactly parallel with the 18s.

Toronto has 3 parallel runways (24L/R and 23).

There are lots of other 3 runway parallels as well (MDW for example) and the 2 systems for numbering are: Left/Center/Right or Left/Right and different number.
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InnocuousFox
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:31 am

DFW can run 3x ILS (18R, 17C, 17L)
DEN can run 4x parallel but they won't because of the layout

The most common layout of 4 parallel is in pairs such as ATL and LAX. Whenever you have paired runways, you do mixed ops. The outside one (away from the terminal) is used for arrivals and the inside for departures. The numbering is as mentioned before. Rarely are runways exactly on the 10's of degrees anyway (or at least not for long due to magnetic drift) so they take the one that is next closest. e.g. heading 203 would give you a pair of 20s and a pair of 21s.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:33 am

>>>if AMS would build another runway which would be parallel to those other three, how would it be called? 18X?

They'd probably call them 17L/R and 18L/R even though the headings were the same. Check out http://www.airnav.com and you'll see that's pretty much what they did with DFW 17C/17R and 18L/18R as well as LAX's 24L/24R and 25L/25R.


>>>as far as i know AMS is able to operate these three simultaneosly wheras this is not possible in ATL or LAX. do you guys know any airports which are able to operate four runways simultaneosly?

It depends upon what you mean by "operate"... In good weather? In bad weather? DFW has 5 parallels, LAX 4, and ATL 4. In VMC weather, visual approaches could conceiveably be run to all these runways, but it was IMC and ILS approaches were required, that wouldn't be the case.

Assuming IMC, I think DFW will eventually be able to handle 4 simultaneous ILS approaches once they build the new 18R/36L on the far west side of the airport. (The current 18R/36L would then become 18C/36C).

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Matterhorn
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:51 am

wow, thanks a lot for your quick and comprehensive answers.

what i mean with operating parallel was the question whether there is an airport which can handle 3 approaches (or 3 departure respecitvely) simultaneosly on parallel runways.
for instance, ATL's runways are too close to do such a thing, or am i wrong?
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drerx7
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:54 am

IAH can have 3 simultaneous ILS approaches on 9/27, 8L/26R, 8R/26L
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neilalp
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:02 am

DTW used to have 3 21L, 21C, 21R but they added a 4th making old 21L still 21L, old 21C become new 21R, old 21R become 22L, and new 22R.
 
DIA
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:09 am

Not only does DEN have 4 parallels, but if the airport is ever used to the max. . .there are plans and room enough for 6, or 8, all together, I can't recall. . .but all north-south parallels. I can't remember the east-west max expansion plans. I do know that one east-west is proposed to be built next to the cargo facilities on the south side of Pena Blvd. All together. . .DIA can have a max of 12 runways.

I'll have to see if I can locate that "master plan" again.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:10 am

I believe PHX is now capable of handling simultaneous ILS approaches to 8/26, 7L/25R and 7R/25L.
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airstatdfw
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:28 am

DFW has 5 parallels in VFR conditions they can use all 7 of there runways at one time. During some IFR conditions they will depart on 2 runways and can use 4 ILS approaches 13R, 18R/36L 17C/35C, 17L/35R, 31R if the visibility drops lower they will go down to 3 or 2 ILS approaches 18R, 17C/35C, 17L/35R due to converging ILS and flow.

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Olympus69
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:36 am

YYZ can't do 3 exactly simultaneous landings but I have seen, when they were using 23 and 24L for landings, a plane switching at the last minute to 24R because the spacing was too tight on 24L. So there could have been 3 landing planes on the runways at the same time.
 
RareBear
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:46 am

At ATL, the 8 pair are too close for simultaneous arrivals, as well as the 9 pair. Simultaneous arrivals at ATL are conducted with one on the outer of the 8 pair and one on the outer of the 9 pair. Departures are on the inner of the two pairs.
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flymunich
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:47 am

Another airport with 4 parallel runways is Paris CDG in France.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:26 am

NEILALP is correct. DTW now has four parallel NE-SW runways.
ATL and LAX have 4 parallel E-W runways. MCO has three N-S with a new one on the far east side of the airport under construction. Last time I was there(last fall) the bulldozers were doing their thing.
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william
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RE: Airports With 4 Parallel RWYs

Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:17 am

Back before the new East runway was completed,DFW used to use the four north/south runways for landings. The aircraft landing on the inner pair were staggered from the aircraft landing on the outside. And vice versa for takeoffs. It was interesting watching four sets of landing lights converging at one time onto DFW. Of course only in VFR. Now with the extra runway,they do not do this as much or anymore.

On a side note the takeoff runways at IAH are pretty close yet,ATC uses them for simultaneous takeoffs.