xjramper
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US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:05 am

After telling the workers at the US Airways Express station in Toledo, OH that the last day of service is on September 7, 2004, they then tell us that at the end of the month July 31, 2004, Shuttle America will sever its ties with US Air.

I do want to thank all of the crews that came into the station that tried hard for US Air after June 1st. If you are on this site...thank you.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:17 am

That's a shocker.

US' website does not yet reflect that change. I just did a mock-booking on their own website for a TOL itinerary in Aug.; the TOL leg is still listed as a US (Shuttle America) flight from PIT.

For itineraries after Sept. 7, US' website lists either AA (Eagle), CO Connection, or DL Connection (Comair) for connecting service to/from TOL.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
xjramper
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:19 am

I mean this news is like four hours old...our regional boss was just told this morning. It took the timetables and res systems about a week to reflect the change for the Sep. 7 date.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:26 am

Those who have already booked their flights on US will be in for a rude awakening.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:00 am

Follow Up:

Toledo Express' website, at present, only has the web-link article (from The Blade) regarding US' pullout for Sept. 7.

Do you, by any chance, have a written source on the earlier pull-out?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
flyinryan99
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:13 am

Unfortunately it's just hearsay from the employees at the station....look for the change in the Rez system on Sunday when the new schedule is loaded in. Personally, I hate to say this, but this is a good thing for TOL. Over the past 2 months Shuttle has really screwed the airport (worse then they have in the past). This is just *rumor*....but pretty credible...one of their crews were on reserve and decided to go out and get drunk the night before and didn't stop drinking till like 2am....6a flight couldn't go out until at least 10am, and that same crew overslept ...didn't show up until like noon. It's crap like that, which has gone on the past 2 months. Like junior manning a captian to fly a right seat leg and refusing to do it...cancelling the flight. Pulling a flight attendant off of the TOL - PIT leg and cabbing her to FWA to do a FWA - PIT leg. This has to be the joke of an operation I have ever seen. I feel really bad for the employees at the station because they put up with it all. I dunno if I would have been able to put up with it...well at least going down without a fight. Remind me to aviod anything that says "Shuttle America" they are a real class operation...and unfortunately TOL and FWA loses out.

Like I said, it's a good thing that Shuttle is leaving...but it sucks that US Airways as a whole is leaving....they screwed themselve in these 2 markets IMHO.

Ryan
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:12 am

funny, shuttle america does a great job on CRW's IAD route.
 
ouboy79
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:58 am

Shuttle obviously cares little about the US Airways service, as everything is focused on UA right now. So natrually anything going through IAD is going to be top notch.

My thoughts go out to everyone at the US station here in town. If anyone needs help with employment, please contact me...I may be able to help a bit.
 
NLINK
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:06 pm

They are running a pretty poor operatioin for UA also.
 
N670UW
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:21 pm

They are running a pretty poor operatioin for UA also.

Shuttle America isn't known for being very operationally-sound. I'm kind of glad they're leaving the USX banner.



R
 
A330323X
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:24 pm

Shuttle America isn't known for being very operationally-sound. I'm kind of glad they're leaving the USX banner.

I'm absolutely thrilled. Good riddance.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:51 pm

The reservation system now reflects the pull out on the 31st.

Ryan
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:55 pm

You sure PSA won't take over or one of the other USAirways regional carriers? Toledo isn't that much smaller than Dayton and Dayton is a USAirways Express focus city. You think they could run a CRJ between TOL and PIT.
 
xjramper
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:56 pm

however, dayton has the PSA corporate hdq in Dayton. It just seems that they want to get rid of our station...and it sucks! Well let our travelers go to another airline...and see the business that they lost. Besides, I am kind of glad that they are pulling out...I was seeing a gigantic headache coming about mid august...lol couldnt type that without laughing...it has been a gigatic headache since June 1.

I just wonder who will be the filler...

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:23 pm

You think they could run a CRJ between TOL and PIT.

Actually, US DID offer ERJ service between TOL & PIT via Trans States just a few years ago.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
flyinryan99
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:28 am

"Actually, US DID offer ERJ service between TOL & PIT via Trans States just a few years ago"

And that's when they were the top airline at the airport. 4 Daily ERJs and 2 Saabs is when they boarded more then AirTran and Comair..... You figure it out....Shuttle America killed TOL's reputation for USAirways because they used to have a HUGE FF base here...now it's down to nothing...I still maintain that Shuttle America is the worst run airline alive...I have no hurt feelings losing the airline itself...but I do have hurt feelings losing the USAirways brand.

Ryan
 
luv2fly
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:25 am

I remember years ago flying an Fokker 100 between TOL and PIT! It was shortly after the new PIT was opened for service, so that tells you how long ago that was.....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ouboy79
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:16 pm

The TOL-PIT market use to have a lot of lift on it in the past.

1996 they operated a 734, MD80, 73S, and M80. 1997 they operated a 727-200, F28, 73S, and D9S. The route eventually went to a handful of F-100s and a couple 328/DH8 flights. Before the mainline pull out they were at 2 F-100s and 4 turboprops.

Also a side note to this...they did continue the Piedmont mainline jets to DAY for a few years and eventually they went to J31s until they were phased out in the early 90s. They also operated flights to IND on an off. The last stint was done by Chautauqua using their Metros 5 times a day. The service was stopped when CHQ axed the IND operation.

 
milesrich
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:59 pm

1996 they operated a 734, MD80, 73S, and M80. 1997 they operated a 727-200, F28, 73S, and D9S. The route eventually went to a handful of F-100s and a couple 328/DH8 flights.

And now nothing.

Now tell me, were the loads and yields so small in 1996, that the managers at USAirways just decided to operate four main line jets per day, IT / KPIT), USA - Pennsylvania">PIT-TOL, with a hand full of passengers? Of course not.

The above is a perfect example how a company shrinks its way into extinction. Regional Jets are profitable? Says who? Everything I have read says they cost between 10.5 and 11.5 cents per seat mile to operate. And the airlines that are making money are running with a cost of under 8 cents per mile, and the legacy carriers faced with extinction have only been able to lower their costs to about 9.5 cents per mile. So tell me, how can airline that loses money with an average cost of 9.5 cents per seat mile, make money flying airplanes that cost 1 to 2 cents more per seat mile to operate? I have passed the CPA exam. I have an MBA. I now am an attorney. Am I missing something? I don't think so.

Go figure it out. It's called the allocation of overhead, which is used to make the regional affiliates look profitable when in fact they are bleeding cash. And why is this done? To push down the wages of the mainline flight service employees.

As National's Slogan used to say!
IS THIS ANY WAY TO RUN AN AIRLINE? YOU BET IT IS(n't)!
 
atct
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:23 pm

Being a PIT person im glad to see another US carrier go kapooey and cut service. The faster the pull the heck out, the better for the city and the airport.

ATCT Fly Delta Jets
Trikes are for kids!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:58 pm

1997 they operated a 727-200, F28, 73S, and D9S.

After 1995, US restricted usage of the 727s for its Shuttle operations only. To my knowledge, I don't think that the US Shuttle ever served TOL.

One may have landed there (TOL) as a result of a diversion.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
ouboy79
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:44 pm

My timeline is probably off...I'll can dig out all of the old schedules from the airport - but they are in a box tucked away. More than likely it was probably 1994 now that I think about it.

The aircraft was routed TOL-PIT-CLT-GCM for the morning outbound and came in BDA-BOS-PIT-TOL at night.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:33 am

Am I missing something? I don't think so.

Yes...you are missing something. Unit revenues on RJ's are much higher than on mainline.
 
freshlove1
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:38 am

Don't be surprised to see CLT-TOL service in the future. US canned the PIT-EVV routes but added CLT-EVV routes that begin i think in SEPT sometime
 
xjramper
Posts: 2318
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:42 am

I really highly doubt it because the fact that our station is closing as of July 31, 2004. And as of Aug 3rd, all of our stuff has to be packed up and shipped out...I just don't see it coming.

Plus, EVV has three rjs daily except for saturday to pit. Nobody is trained at TOL for Crjs and only a handful of people are trained on the ERJs. It would be nice...but as I said, I just dont see it coming.

XJR

[Edited 2004-07-13 21:46:30]
Look ma' no hands!
 
DAYFL
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:00 am

HlywdCatft,

How can you say that TOL is just a little smaller than DAY. Delta alone each month at DAY does more passengers than all airlines at TOL combined. Please do the research. DAY will do over 3 million passengers this year. DAY was ranked the 10th fastest growing airport in 2003 as reported by Airport Councils International.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:42 am

Toledo (as a market) has every bit as much potential as DAY.

Execution is the key.

joe
 
Skyway1
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:31 am

Sorry to hear about you folks in TOL...things will turn out for you in the long run!!

From everything I hear Shuttle America's operations are terrible. I remember one day here in DAY(they took over from ACA in June) I heard the UA folks paging the Shuttle America F/A to return to the gate for departure, why would you have to do that???

Right now PSA(currently 21 flights a day) is not doing very well either....they cancel flights on a daily basis due to crew shortages....I don't know how the US folks handle the stress....because I work right next to them and they get HAMMERED day after day!

Chris

 Nuts  Nuts
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
xjramper
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:01 pm

don't know how the US folks handle the stress....because I work right next to them and they get HAMMERED day after day!

Drugs and lots and lots of alcohol  Laugh out loud

If they keep up the way they have been going...US Airways will be out of business in less than two months.What they are doing right now is killing their pax loyalty and their FF base. I talked to one of our frequent fliers that flies out on US Air on a weekly basis saying that she is getting fed up with the way the company is treating our workers. I will honestly miss her because she was one of the very few who kept a good atitude no matter what she was encountered with.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:11 pm

XJRamper.....

One of my co-workers worked for USAirways as a reservations agent for 18 years and after 9/11 they closed their office here in DAY.....believe it or not her pension is $52 a month! Many of the ticket folks are former reservation agents.....and the ramp is now handled by FSS.

After USAir entered bankruptcy...they pretty much threw all the employees out the door.....one guy is now a FedEx courier....I know one went to LGA...one to CMH....most of they people they laid off actually started with Piedmont. So...USAir has screwed many many people.

Good luck to you in the future!

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
xjramper
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:19 pm

Good luck to you in the future!

Appreciate that Skyway1.

And what third party company handles the ground?

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:52 am

FSS handles the ground work for USAIR here.......I can't remember exactly right now what is.....Flight Services and Systems maybe???

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
N628AU
Posts: 355
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:16 am

Milesrich said:

The above is a perfect example how a company shrinks its way into extinction. Regional Jets are profitable? Says who? Everything I have read says they cost between 10.5 and 11.5 cents per seat mile to operate. And the airlines that are making money are running with a cost of under 8 cents per mile, and the legacy carriers faced with extinction have only been able to lower their costs to about 9.5 cents per mile. So tell me, how can airline that loses money with an average cost of 9.5 cents per seat mile, make money flying airplanes that cost 1 to 2 cents more per seat mile to operate? I have passed the CPA exam. I have an MBA. I now am an attorney. Am I missing something? I don't think so.

N628AU:

Yes, you are missing a lot. Higher unit revenues for one, has already been mentioned. Now I will give you my semi-annual lecture on how CASM is an overinflated statisitic, and must be used only in a macro-economic sense as it applies to the airline in general, vs. a micro-economic one on a specific route.

Lets take a 350 NM flight between a hub and an outstation. Let's say you have a choice between operating a 120 seat A319 ot 50 seat RJ on the route. Assume a 10 cent CASM on the A319 and 14 cent CASM on the RJ.

A319 cost: 120 seats times 350 miles times 10 cents per mile = $4200 cost
RJ cost: 50 seats times 350 miles times 14 cents per mile = $2450 cost

Now lets assume the average load on this route is 40 passengers per flight.

Dividing $4200 by 40 passengers, means the airline needs to generate $105 for this segment alone to break even on the A319 (this only covers this leg, and does not include taxes or fees).

Dividing $2450 by 40 passengers, means the airline only needs to generate $61.25 for the RJ to break even on that segment.

That is where the RJ becomes an advantage, and something they apparently didn't teach you in business school.
 
xjramper
Posts: 2318
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:19 am

I am going to plead ignorance on CASM...what does it stand for? Cost for ... seat mile?

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:09 pm

With US pulling out, is there any chance of CO upgrading its Connection services to CLE to an Express ERJ or Independence Air bringing in CRJ service to IAD?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
luv2fly
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:14 pm

PHLBOS

I would expect to see Indy air before CO upgraded the flight to CLE. TOL Airport is located close to DTW and next closest would be CLE going East and FWA going West. So to save a connection most people have gotten into the habit of driving to one or the other airport.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:19 pm

TOL Airport is located close to DTW and next closest would be CLE going East and FWA going West. So to save a connection most people have gotten into the habit of driving to one or the other airport.

Luv2fly,

Most people, perhaps but not all. Plus, in many instances, the fares to TOL are actually cheaper than the fares to CLE or DTW on the same airline (CO & NW) even though the itinerary includes the flight to CLE or DTW. My proof of that is when I price a PHL-DTW vs. a PHL-DTW-TOL itinerary on NW; the TOL itinerary is almost always (only once I noticed an exception in 2000) cheaper than the DTW itinerary.

Another thing you need to consider is the longer waiting times at the security check-points, especially during peak travel periods; the days of showing up at the airport security check-point 15 to 20 minutes prior to your flight departure time are gone! That needs to be factored into the driving times to CLE, DTW, and FWA.

My 73 year-old father, who resides in the Point Place area of Toledo, utilizes TOL as much as possible. He will go to DTW only as a last resort.

When I first heard about US dropping its TOL-PIT service, I was personally hoping that TOL-PHL service was going to replace it; I thought wrong.

I do agree with you that we're likely to see Indy Air come to TOL before CO upgrades its CLE service (or even adds EWR service).

Are there any chances of AA (Eagle) or DL Connection adding service to JFK or another northeast airport?

Edit: Any chances of B6 coming to TOL, once they get their EMB 190s?



[Edited 2004-07-21 16:21:55]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:33 pm

PHLBOS

I'll agree with you, though myself given the choice non stop or connect, I'll always do nonstop and if that mean driving to a close airport I'll take it. Yes a smaller airport is quicker for security the lines are better than they use to be and the wait is quicker overall.

Also if you are on the East side of Toledo you might actually be closer to DTW than TOL.

FWA I would not consider it a major airport more on the line of TOL.

I think we will see Indy before B6 and B6 not sure if TOL is even on the map.

Remember AirTran has been to TOL twice and they were unable to make a go of it.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PHLBOS
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:11 am

Remember AirTran has been to TOL twice and they were unable to make a go of it.

That was partly because FL only offered non-stops to ATL (they may have also had TOL-MCO service when they were first there); a service that DL/ASA can (and did) match fares and increase frequency very easily. Now if FL were to offer non-stop service to DFW or BWI from TOL in 2005 (those 2 cities now being FL's focus/connection cities); there's a chance (key word: chance) that FL could survive in TOL because no other carrier is offering non-stop services to those cities.

From what I gather, during FL's 2nd try at TOL; their flights were fairly full plus Lucas County officials were begging them to stay but local businesses didn't seem willing to support the service.

However, it looks like FL has already chosen CAK for BWI and BOS non-stops.
I wonder how they're doing there?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:04 am


XJ Ramper,

I am one of those former Us FF loyal customers. I too am fed up with PSA and was with Shithole America's Cancellations. I too see Us Airways is falling apart and it is sad Indeed.

Mike
 
ouboy79
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RE: US AIrways Pulls Out Of TOL Sooner

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:23 am

Expect an announcement from American with in a week on service from Toledo. I've heard both BOS and JFK rumored. Also JFK is part of their SCASD filing with Delta being the lead airline - if they choose not to other airlines on the list included JetBlue and America West with various destinations.

The next month should have a good line up of announcements for TOL to help direct where the future will be.