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jetpixx
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JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:58 pm

Why is it that jetBlue does not fly anywhere near the midwest? Is it gate availability? I think they would make a great addition to CAK and some of the other airports that AirTran flies. I would love to have more options to the Cleveland area, even if it meant flying through IAD. I am so glad Independence Air is starting up services soon, although it will be some time from FLL still. Anyone know the specifics on that?
 
N766UA
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:05 pm

CLE is on the list of potentials for E190 service.
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jetpixx
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:07 pm

That is fantastic news! I am originally from CLE and I fly between PBI/FLL/MIA at least four or five times a year. I am not the biggest fan of CO, but it is tough to avoid the N/S.
 
rj777
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:28 pm

I Would like to see Jet Blue in OMA!
 
modesto2
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:37 pm

In the near future, expect additional expansion along the coasts. But who knows what's in store in the next 5 years...
 
7e72004
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:38 pm

I would love to see them at IND. If they are going to start getting the regional jets next year, how soon do you think they will start announcing service to new cities?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
B2443
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:43 pm

Why wouldn't they consider DTW? Say JFK-DTW-Long Beach? We need some competition here at DTW.
 
iluv2pilot
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:57 pm

Expansion in the Midwest has always been a problem for many upstarts. The load factors are just not there at many airports to make it worthwhile. There's been talk of JetBlue using the 190, however, it's limited seating and cost per mile will be higher than the Airbus. JetBlue will have to pick and choose very carefully . Remember, they don't have to pick airports to keep competitors out, or to feed hubs, they will pick only on the basis of profitability.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:58 pm

B2443!

I am sure NW will fight any attempt by Jetblue to move into DTW. And before anyone gets going, it's called a free market economy and competition.

I know that if they do, I will still fly only NW and support NW anyway I can.

Considering that DTW is served by every major domestic+Lufthansa, British Airways and Royal Jordanian plus Spirit, Southwest and a plethora of charters, we certainly have enough competition here.

All power to the legacy carriers!!!!!

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akjetBlue
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:59 pm

Hi Jetpixx:
The reason is simple: long hauls make more money. You can turn higher yields easier.

You burn a lot of gas crusing up to 30000 ft asl. Your dont' burn that much once you're up there at cruise. It doesn't make as much sense to climb up there for an hour an a half flight, when you could climb up there at sit at cruise for 4 or 5 hours.

Look at flt B6 52 JFK to BTV, you can't charge high fares on that market but you still have to climb upto a high crusiing alt such as maybe 20000 burning just as much gas to get to a cruising altitude as you would to say fly to LGB where you can get people to pay $200 to $300 for a one way ticket vs. a JFK BTV ticket which averages about $59 each way.

Before 9/11 jetBlue was planning on serving a number of cities in the midwest. IND was the main one, don't know if it's still planned tho. The A320 wasn't really designed to do lots of cycles on short hops like WN does with the 737. Mind you short hauls can be done, but it was said to me that it puts unneeded wear and tear on the aircraft. That was one of the reasons the EMB-190 is being brought into the B6 family.

More than likely, and this is just a guess from what i've heard; you'll see the short hauls out of JFK such as BUF, SYR and BTV go to like 10 flights a day with the EMB-190. Each one of those cities will continue to see A320s with florida service as well as westcoast service once they open the new west coast hub... Ops did I say new west coast hub?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

In anycase, since we're excecised our options on the A320s and prob will on the 190s once they come online we'll be getting as many as 6 aircraft a month. From what I know as has been said in news releases they want to cover the midwest and east coast doing "point to point" flying. Even with the new JFK terminal being built there is just no way to have every flight going through JFK. Plus people like nonstops that are point to point. Who wants to go through a hub if they don't hafta, aside from all the A.netters.

Hope this ansered some of your questions.

Smiles
-Philzy
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Northwest717
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:28 pm

I think it is about time they take a chance at MSN!  Big grin
I'd sure like to see one of their 320s or 190s come in here!!!  Big thumbs up

-Tim  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
B2443
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:31 pm

Dtwclipper,

I agree with you on that NW would fight its best to discourage any new comers from serving DTW. They have. However I'd like to see more competition at DTW for nonstop flights. Let's face it, the nonstops from DTW besides NW are

WN, nonstop to MDW and STL? (who's gonna FLY to CHI besides transits)
UA, to ORD, IAD and DEN? (who's gonna FLY to CHI besides transits)
DL, to ATL, CVG, and SLC? (who's gonna FLY to CVG besides transits)
AA, DFW, ORD, MIA? (who's gonna FLY to CHI besides transits)
CO, to EWR and IAH, CLE (who's gonna FLY to CLE from DTW besides transits)
US, to PIT and CLT, PHL (who's gonna FLY to CLE from DTW besides transits)
Spirit (NH?) to Florida, LAX, LGA on MD8*s/DC9s?

Internationally,
BA, LHR
LH, AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA
Royal Jordanian, to Anman?
Chartes to the Carribeans?

It's not that I do not love to fly NW. I would fly NW just because DTW is my home airport and nothing beats a non-stop. Many times I am forced to fly non-NW because their nonstops are so expensive. I'd like to see competition in DTW to bring their airfares down so that I CAN fly NW.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:40 pm

B2443

DTW-ORD is not a transit market! I used to fly AA all the time, weekly as a matter of fact, for business, but since 9/11 when they closed the AAdmirals club in Detroit, I gave all my business to NW.

I would not be surpized if DTW-ORD is not one of NW's better markets, despite severe competition from AA & UA. F/C is always full and it seems with revenue and not upgrades.

DTW-CVG, I have three clients there, and fly DTW-CVG weekly or at least twice a month.
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B2443
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:03 am

Dtwclipper,
Sure there are O/D pax between DTW/ORD and DTW/CVG. I have no doubt about that. But I do believe the majority on those flights are transits. I'd be interested to know percentage wise how much on these routes is O/D and else.

For those in our company's regional office in Dayton, they'd rather drive up here. Even those fron Indy, let alone CLE based. Last December I had to spend a week near PIT, boy didn't I wish I had driven...
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:05 am

Yep... wait for the -190s. You will either see them being placed in the Midwest or, as someone suggested, see the short haul/high frequency routes in the NE go to 190s and put the 320s on the Midwest/Plains runs.

OMA had damn well better be in there!
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
nearord
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:08 am

Dont forget about Independence Air starting service to DTW from IAD in August.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:13 am

B2443,

Well, I also fly DTW-DAY. I have three clients there as well and couldn't handle the drive. I can leave in the AM and be home for dinner.

There was a thread a while ago that listed O-D for the majors, but I have to go to work now.

cheers

dtwclipper
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B2443
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:42 am

dtwclipper,
wow, I could just imagine how your DTW-DAY day trip starts off. You get up at 4am and get home at 10pm. That sure beats 8-9 hrs/day on I75.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:46 am


B2443


It's not so bad!

Date: July 12 Flight: NW 2755

Departs: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW) at 10:15AM

Arrives: Dayton-Int'l, OH (DAY) at 11:20AM

Class of Service: Economy Class (Y) Seat: 06-A

Flight Duration: 1 hour 5 minutes Miles: 176

Meal Service: None Aircraft: Saab-340 SFC

Flight and Gate Status

Note: *Operated by MESABA AVIATION/NW AIRLINK



Date: July 12 Flight: NW 5875

Departs: Dayton-Int'l, OH (DAY) at 6:25PM

Arrives: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW) at 7:31PM

Class of Service: Economy Class (Y) Seat: 02-C

Flight Duration: 1 hour 6 minutes Miles: 176

Meal Service: None Aircraft: Canadair Regional Jet CR4

Flight and Gate Status

Note: *Operated by PINNACLE AIRLINES JET/NW AIRLINK
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B2443
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:09 am

dtwclipper,
okay... so you get up at 6a, park your car at Mac Termainal ($10/day), hop on the Saab340 for an hr ($280 rt), get to DAY at 11:20am, pick up your rental ($70/day), exit DAY at 12:30p, have a quick lunch, meet your client at 1:30pm for 3 hrs, at 4:30, head back to DAY, return the rental, check-in, hop on another Saab, get to DTW at 7:30pm. Pick your car, exit DTW at 8:30pm. If you live in North Oakland County, you get home by 10pm, suppose your flights were all on time. How oftern do you have do this??? I guess one gets used to this?
 
ACAfan
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:15 am

The day B6 announces JFK-DTW is the day NW will announce their new JFK-FLL service with spare DC-10s, designed for "the convenience and the pocketbooks of our valued customers"...
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
 
B2443
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:20 am

NW will announce their new JFK-FLL service with spare DC-10s

yeah..at half the price of B6? They don't even do DC-10s on DTW-FLL to compete with Spirit...
 
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:21 am

So, if B6 uses the EMB190 in the midwest, will I finally see a RDU-IND, RDU-MCI, RDU-MSY?

**Since I am assuming I will be seeing a RDU-OAK, RDU-FLL, and RDU-LGAor JFK***  Acting devilish
Aiming High and going far..
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:57 am

B2443;

Well, as I live in Western Wayne, it takes a grand total of 20min top to get to DTW, I have a metro car pick me up and am picked up at DAY so it's not so bad, and I am home by 8:00pm.

By the way the fare is a little more: Try R/t $676.00
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nearord
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:33 am

"By the way the fare is a little more: Try R/t $676.00"

This is what kills me about Northwest lovers. You beg for competition, you get it, NW lowers its fares to match, then you fly NW instead of the competition, NW successfully runs out competition out of the market, and spikes prices again. I don't get it.
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:42 am

I think it is about time they take a chance at MSN!

Northwest717 - You took the words right out of my mouth. We could actually end up with jetBlue Express (EMB-190s) or FlyI (CRJs) in the new commuter gate once its completed next year. I think that Dane County won't take the flyer (excuse the pun) on FlyI, because they are a new airline and haven't proven anything, except that they throw lame parties. The better chance is to see jetBlue Express/jetBlue mainline in MSN. If B6 were to fly to MSN with the EMB190s, they would be at the new south commuter gate (being built) and if they bring in the A320s, the only available gate is A3 between AA and UA. A3 used to be AA's DFW gate. Not exactly sure on the whole situation on how the counter space would work out though. Should be plenty when Phase 2 remodeling is complete (Gate A4-6 & Security Checkpoint-Bag Claim #3).
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:46 am

Is it ok if i dream and hope that they're coming to CRW?
 
B2443
Posts: 586
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:04 am

Dtwclipper,

By the way the fare is a little more: Try R/t $676.00

Now there's no way I could do this (to DAY for that price) with my company...I did a $1,000 same day DTW-MSP, and $700 DTW-Peoria before and thought those were kinda painful.

Nearord,

yes, that's exactly how NW drives others out of DTW. However Spirit is still there and their airfare to FL is not exactly better. I'm looking forward to seeing their new Airbuses. Pro Air, what a story. They picked the wrong places to fly to. Their destinations included MDW, IAD?, LGA and ATL all heavily competed even without NW. And they were plagued with delays and cancellations. But B6 would be a different product, with nicer IFE on board and all. With everything equal (price, schedule), I would actually fly B6 for a change.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:13 am

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel just had an article about JetBlue, Milwaukee, and the Midwest recently.

Link: http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/237798.asp
 
B2443
Posts: 586
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:20 am

Thanks Tekelberry for sharing the link. The article did not mention DTW but Milwaukee, Chicago and MSP were on B6's "radar". I wonder what makes DTW so un-inviting...
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:22 am

"I wonder what makes DTW so un-inviting..."

One word----Northwest
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B2443
Posts: 586
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:29 am

Dtwclipper

But B6 is targeting MSP, another NW hub. Chicago has UA, AA and WN, wouldn't that make Chicago a tougher market to crack in? Yet B6 targets Chicago. They'd have to compete head to head with UA and AA at ORD for MDW is out of gates.
 
boeingpride800
Posts: 391
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:17 am

I am so glad jetBlue flies to Syracuse (SYR)
 
boeingpride800
Posts: 391
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:18 am

I am so glad jetBlue flies to Syracuse (SYR), but they only have service to JFK.
 
ckfred
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:09 pm

By the by, NW flies a lot of people between Chicago and DTW. I think there is even a 757 between DTW and MDW!

As for B6, they would love to fly to Chicago, but it have let the Chicago Dept. of Aviation that the interest is exclusively in ORD. There is no interest in MDW, as well as Rockford and Gary.

But, B6 wants 4, preferably 5 gates. The only available gate space is the common-use gates in the International Terminal, T5.

The City has been trying to get some of United's gates back via the bankruptcy court. UA made some late payments, which the City claims is a default. UA eventually made the payments, which, according to their lawyers, cured the default.

The City also feels that since UA is flying less mainline service out of ORD, it ought to return some gates as a cost reduction.

If UA does reduce flying further out of ORD as part of further cost reductions, there will be even more pressure by the City to get some gates in Terminal 1.

If that happens, B6 apparently has first choice.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:38 pm

Didn't UA build T-1 essentially themselves in the late 80s? If so, I see no reason that the city could get its hands on any gates there. The crappy Express gates in T-2, I would imagine, are another issue.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
leo777
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:27 pm

Terminal 1 including concourse B and C are all UA, and Lufthansa which departs from T1. I see it very difficult that UA give up any available gates at T1. As far as the T2 gates, we wont even go there! JetBlue should take advantage of the available gates at T5 as there are a lot of empty gates in the early morning and late afternoon. Anyhow Chicago has 4 major airlines at this point in time, JetBlue may somehow be intimidated by this.
You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
 
PlaneviewNYC
Posts: 130
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:58 pm

Is there any demand for JFK-OMA? Judging by the fact that there is no direct service serving the pair now, I'm guessing not. I think jetBlue will leave the flyover states to Southwest for a while, until they can find a surefire way to make money serving them.
 
johnboy
Posts: 2554
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:16 pm

Wow, can't believe that no one is gonna bite on that "new west coast hub" blurb back there!
 
B2443
Posts: 586
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:21 pm

Anyhow Chicago has 4 major airlines at this point in time, JetBlue may somehow be intimidated by this.

That's exactly what I am saying...why B6 would pick ORD over DTW, when ORD has UA AA WN to compete with and DTW only with NW. Wouldn't DTW be a less tougher market for B6?
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:00 pm

Well ORD you have one (somewhat) strong financial airline and another one in bankruptcy. Now is DTW you have a strong player and one that is known for defending its home market.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
B757capt
Posts: 1294
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:09 pm

JEt blue to GYY that would be sweet
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:06 am

just for the record...there is no jetBlue Express...the EMB-190s are not RJs and seat like 100 people!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11368
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:52 am

I think B6 wants to avoid T-5 at ORD because the fees are much higher there.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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jetpixx
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:31 am

I think jetBlue offers a fine product. Earlier in the post, someone had said it is likely ROC, SYR, BUF and BTV will likely be served by the 190s when they enter service. This makes tremendous sense. I am sure they will also put those 320s into service on more flights to the Caribbean. The thing about cruise speed and transcontinental service also makes sense to me. Perhaps PDX will be on their radar screen at some point. That would make a really nice stop. As mentioned above, I am hopeful CAK or CLE can secure service with at least the 190s. Other cities that make sense in my mind are IND, MKE, CMH, TOL and PIT in the midwest. DTW and ORD are too congested and I do not know the landing fees, but I am sure cost is what have caused them to avoid those airports in the first place, along with competition. While CLE has high landing fees as well, that will hopefully come down and allow a growth of service, especially with US severely cutting back in PIT.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:35 am

just for the record...there is no jetBlue Express...the EMB-190s are not RJs and seat like 100 people!

Thank you... I didn't know the full scale set-up on B6. I can't wait to see them come to the Midwest. I'd love to see B6 do a MSN-CMH route. That would make my day a whole lot easier! A person can dream, can't they?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
Mizzou65201
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2000 2:11 am

RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:03 pm

MKE seems to make the most sense...

ORD--higher convenience factor to Chicagoland, but would add to (and put JBU subject too) all of ORD's delay problems
GYY--Gary still has such a negative image as a city, I don't see JBU or any other semi-major carrier getting fired up to fly there
MSP/DTW--Too much NW

MKE is close enough to Chicago to attract loyal B6 customers...but is also a large enough city in its own right (approx 1 million GMSA) to help the service along. I would guess Chicago is the main focus of the B6 expansion, considering B6 already has NY and LA covered. Plus, I would argue MKE is underserved to the west coast...I bet B6 would do well with service to LGB, OAK, and SEA.
 
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jetpixx
Posts: 831
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:22 am

Another post mentioned PHX will be getting new service. This seems to be more in line with what AKjetblue said about transcontinental and cruising speed, etc. Perhaps some airports such as ABQ, PDX, RNO, etc. are nearing service from JFK? More likely they would see flights to LGB. Maybe DFW or IAH is also in the future, although I am still pulling for CLE.
 
Leneld
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:37 am

Is portland even on Jetblue's radar?
 
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jetpixx
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RE: JetBlue To The Midwest?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:45 am

I am definitely just speculating, but that seems to be the route they are going. PDX would definitely need transcontinental service and the airport is growing. I know they added LH and MX in the past year or two. As a side note, that is one of my favorite airports to spot.

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