B2443
Topic Author
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:54 am

Following the threads the JFK has around 160 international destinations serviced by foreign airlines, JFK lacking domestic services and JetBlue hubbing at JFK, would it make sense that it code-shares with foreign airlines as a feeder into areas other than NYC? Or there'd be a bigger problem with FAA?
 
toltommy
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:07 am

It's more of a DOT issue, not FAA. The major players into JFK have partners. It's the much smaller players into JFK that would be the only possibility. The amount of revenue that an alliance with an airline like Air Ukraine or Ghana Airways would generate probably doesn't make it worth the effort. And would JetBlue want their product associated with either?
 
B2443
Topic Author
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:15 am

Well, I was not suggesting alliance with Air Ukraine or Ghana, what about AF, LH, BA, IB, KL, etc? I understand they have partners at other hubs, why not JFK?
 
modesto2
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:35 am

JetBlue has not established alliances with other airlines for the simple reason of keeping our business plan simple and clearcut. I agree that alliances and codesharing eases transitions and increases convenience for customers. However, from the airline's perspective, it adds a great deal of complexity. Right now, JetBlue is not concerned with that type of expansion.

We do however, have many agreements for non-rev travel for JetBlue Crewmembers.
 
richierich
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:56 am

I remember hearing a few years ago that JetBlue was considering an agreement with Swissair but that apparently never panned out. Of course, Swissair was soon to be consigned to history books.

It makes sense for an airline like JetBlue (or AirTran, Southwest) to stay out of agreements with other airlines. Once that happens, you literally bring the baggage of that other airline with you. For example, if a bag gets lost, whose fault is it? Misconnects can cause problems when you have load factors in the 80-something % range. For the additional revenue an agreement would bring, I doubt the pros outweigh the cons for an airline as cost conscious as B6.
None shall pass!!!!
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:07 am

"what about AF, LH, BA, IB, KL, etc?"

Most airlines in alliances have a clause somewhere in the contracts that state whether they can have other alliances with another airline. For instance, Southwest would not want an airline that they code-shared with to also be in an alliance with Jetblue to the same destinations. In the end, it would not help your position in the market very much.

The current airlines indicated all have alliances and are most likely kept from being associated with other airlines. Plus, for one major airline to be your partner, you have to also have something that would appeal to their customers as well. To be a large international airline like AF, a smaller start-up low cash carrier like Jetblue that only flies to a handful of destinations does not offer the same potential for their travellers. As far as no alliances, AF is in bed with SkyTeam, LH has Star, BA and IB are both paired with AA in oneworld, and KL is soon to be accepted by SkyTeam. Being a major player in your home country, and shifting your people to a low fare airline in the US would not do much for your passenger loyalty, especially your First Class passengers.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:11 am

I'm sure B6 serves indirectly as a feeder for the many International airlines at JFK. Passengers can take a B6 flight, than use the airtrain to catch their I'ntl connecting flight.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
flybyguy
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:02 pm

Flyguy1,

Yes its true that JetBlue works somewhat as an unofficial feeder, at least for some people I know. Some people from my school who fly to Japan for instance, and use JFK 's ANA service, fly out of Syracuse to JFK on jetBlue and walk over to terminal 7 to take their ANA flight.

It is simply cheaper and less hassling to fly USairways to LGA and switch airports.

"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:34 pm

It is simply cheaper and less hassling to fly USairways to LGA and switch airports.

Sorry my last line was really supposed to state "Jetblue is simply cheaper and less hassling to fly than USairways to LGA and then driving to JFK."
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
blink182
Posts: 5282
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:35 pm

I know this may be a tad bit off topic, but I noticed that Jetblue has what most other carriers at JFK doesn't have-- a sizeable domestic network. Why hasn't American or Delta been able to provide that? I would think that Jetblue's domestic network from JFK would do well for the other airline partnering with them.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Summa767
Posts: 1778
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:15 pm

Not quite an alliance, but I can tell you that in Avianca's webpage, as soon as one selects FLL as a destination, a JetBlue pop up comes up with their offer of destinations from there.
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:07 am

Blink182,
DL is now starting to buildup their domestic presence at JFK, we shall see how much more they add over the future.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
B2443
Topic Author
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:41 am

Why hasn't American or Delta been able to provide that?

This is exactly what I don't understand since both AA and DL have more than a few int'l flights out of JFK. Unless they figured out only local NYer's would use JFK, others simply go thru ATL, CVG, DFW or ORD or CO's EWR?
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:53 am

JetBlue doesn't need to codeshare with any of the airlines to gain additional traffic, and the amount it would give them isn't enough to cover the cost of interlining the passengers and bags... not to mention the idea of linking Navitaire to the GDS world for thru-connectivity and bags..

-nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
WJA73G
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:50 am

With WS flying into New York now, B6 and WS could do a codeshare.. There is just one problem... B6 flies into JFK and WS flies into LGA..

What could really help make it work is that they are offering the same product..
Leather Seats
Cheap Fares
More Legroom
and PTVs...

WJA73G
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:01 am

JetBlue has not established alliances with other airlines for the simple reason of keeping our business plan simple and clearcut.
***

Pah, Jetblue doesn't have codeshares with International carriers because they are a tiny entity with more or less nothing to offer the international carrier. Jetblue has so few destinations as it is, therefore offer virtually no through traffic to offer another carrier. The same applies in reverse. A LCC can offer what to a major international carrier ?, a passenger unwilling to spend much on a ticket yet wants to fly to important international destinations ?

Jetblue, while a great carrier, is tiny with I believe still less than 50 planes, and not very many destinations at all.
 
B6FA4ever
Posts: 752
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:49 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Artsyman,

we actually have 60 planes w/ N590 and N591 coming very shortly (if they havn't arrived yet).

we may not have many destinations but we do have much frequency. i mean from NY to both LGB and OAK are pretty much shuttle flights now w/ 7 flights daily...not to mention down to Florida.

i doubt we'll ever code-share w/ an int'l carrier...let alone a domestic carrier. like someone mentioned earlier...coming into a codeshare would bring a lot of baggage (no pun intended  Laugh out loud)...and i'm talkin about the bad stuff...

~B6FA4ever
 
modesto2
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:20 pm

Artsyman, we'll have 69 aircraft by the end of 2004 with aircraft N599. We just announced our 29th destination and operate 258 flights a day. At JFK, I believe we're the number 2 carrier next to AA. I strongly disagree with your statements - check your facts before writing.
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:03 am

I think artysman works for CO, therefore the bad attitude towards B6 makes sense.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
anstar
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:28 am

I'm flying to Vegas & SFO at christmas with BA. Choose Jet Blue for the LAS-Oakland flight rather than HP as I've heard great things about them. Word of mouth & reputation won me over. Not BA's relationship with HP/AA this time.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:35 am

This is exactly what I don't understand since both AA and DL have more than a few int'l flights out of JFK.

...nearly all of which were based at satisfying O&D demand, with de facto feed.

AA/Eagle and DL both had plans for much larger domestic operations/terminals ex-JFK in the late 90s... B6 put an end to that.



At JFK, I believe we're the number 2 carrier next to AA

B6 passed AA for the #1 spot a good while ago...
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:14 am

Artsyman, we'll have 69 aircraft by the end of 2004 with aircraft N599. We just announced our 29th destination and operate 258 flights a day
****

And those 258 flights are about 10% of what Continental flies per day, never mind what AA, UAL, DL, NW etc fly.

My point is the same, the whole point of codeshares are to expand your route networks, and while as you said "Jetblue has almost shuttle like service to LGB etc, it means so little to the International carrier.

As far as my having an anti Jetblue feeling, not at all. I said it in my original post, and I will say it again, I think Jetblue is a great carrier, I think they offer a great product at a great price, I just do not think they have enough to offer an international carrier in the way of codeshares.

Instead of attacking me, or making accusations about me hating Jetblue, read what I said instead and respond to it. 50 planes- 70 planes, same thing really when we are in this discussion.

29 destinations is just not a wide route network

J
 
BOEING747-700
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 5:21 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:27 pm

I loved them, Jetblue was one of the best airlines I have flown with good job Jetblue. I hear Westjet here in Canada is much like Jet Blue as far as friendly staff, Leather seats, and Live PTV!!! I am sure if there is an Airline alliance to be made at Jetblue it will be with WestJet here in Canada. The Jetblue CEO helped sculpt Westjet.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24725
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:34 pm

At JFK, I believe we're the number 2 carrier next to AA

B6 passed AA for the #1 spot a good while ago...


IIRC, AA is still the largest carrier at JFK. jetBlue is the largest domestic carrier at JFK, however.
a.
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:57 am

As a Westjet employee, the JetBlue/Westjet rumour has been churning for years.

Everybody knows that David Neeleman had a helping hand in getting Westjet off the ground. From what I hear, we still maintain a good relationship with him, even though he has no stake in Westjet anymore.

Westjet has recently altered its strategy to make YYZ its eastern hub. Within a year YYZ ops should reach about 70 flights a day (up from the 20 or so we had during April before the capacity shift from YHM). If a link-up/alliance/code-share agreement were to ever be put into place YYZ, YYC (western hub), and YVR seem logical candidates.

While there are a lot of comparisons (seat pitch, leather seats, business plan, new aircraft, LiveTV, customer service, policies, etc.) I don't think we'll see a linkup between the two carriers anytime soon. Westjet has only recently announced (but not yet launched) transborder service and all, with the exception of LGA) are destination spots. There's no reason to start an alliance of sorts with JetBlue if our traffic is predominantly O&D.

EH.
 
vatveng
Posts: 1112
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:49 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:53 am

LCCs may not have codeshare alliances, but some of them do have interline baggage agreements. Last summer I was able to check my bags with AirTran in PHF and they arrived at GJT on United Express/Mesa. (changed in DEN) Same thing in reverse, UEX/Air Whisky checked my bages through Denver to my AirTran flight DEN-ATL-PHF.
 
transPac
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:59 pm

RE: Jet Blue Code Share With Foreign Airlines?

Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:06 pm

Aren't turnaround times the main reason we don't see LCC's codesharing on international flights? It seems like it would be difficult to maintain the tight turnaround times if they had to deal with international arrivals and departures. Am I correct in my reasoning here?

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