dl021
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1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 pm

Which aircraft was the first to fly supersonic? I did a search and can't find the answer in these forums, although I found it elsewhere and was surprised. Any takers? It's worth a drink at the LeBourgetAirSHowMeet next year if you get it and show.
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soups
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:14 pm

wasnt it aeroflot with the 1st superssonic a/c? not too sure
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dtwclipper
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:18 pm

A dc-8 was the first to fly as a civil supersonic airliner on August 21, 1961.

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solnabo
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:18 pm

1) TU-144 or Concorde, if you mean pass.a/c!

2) Chuck Yeager in 1947, dont remember the name of his plane though.

Mike  Big thumbs up
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solnabo
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:20 pm

3) Convair 990??

Mike
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BA
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:21 pm

TU-144 flew before the Concorde....

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dtwclipper
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:23 pm

Sorry guys,

The answer is the DC-8, as I said in my above post.

it wasn'tn until June 5 1969 that the TU-144 flew and Oct 1 1969 for the Concorde.
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jwenting
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:29 pm

Captain Yeager flew the X-1 in 1947.
The aircraft was a USAAF project though (possibly in cooperation with NACA) and therefore not civilian.

Even before that aircraft had broken the sound barrier but never in level flight.
Documented examples include F-86 Sabres and (though sometimes disputed) Me-262 aircraft as far back as 1943 or 1944 that survived without critical damage.
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dtwclipper
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:30 pm

Jwenting:

The question was civil airliner.

dtwclipper
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Corners
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:40 pm

It was a Canadian Pacific Airlines DC-8 (43?) in a shallow dive testing in California in the early 60's



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L-188
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:44 pm

Yup, that CPA DC-8 has the title.
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KingGeo3
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:54 pm

Does anyone here know how long was the duration of the supersonic flight was for the DC-8?

Was the flight

    Sustained (1 minute or longer) or,
    A very brief period where the flight crew realized they had pushed the plane a little too far?

Also, how many other civilian airliners have done this feat? I don't think too many of the modern airliners with the high-bypass ratio turbofans would be able to pull this off because they essentially have the same limitations as prop-jets in regards to supersonic flight.

-KG3


[Edited 2004-07-10 16:57:43]

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dtwclipper
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:02 am

It was done intentionaly not by Canadian, but by Douglas at Edwards Air Force Base.

The pushover was initiated at 52,090 feet abd recovery commeced at 42000 feet.

The highest speed was Mach 1.012 (660.6mph)

Test crew:

Bill Magruder
Paul Patten
Joseph Tomich

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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:37 am

Also, how many other civilian airliners have done this feat?


EgyptAir's SU-GAP, a 763ER, surpassed the sound barrier as well...

...though, the results thereafter were rather tragic  Sad
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solnabo
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:51 am

C-boy:

That statement was rude!!  Sad

Dont make a joke of a tragedy that cost several life......

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solnabo
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:54 am

If we start making jokes about "supersonic" aircrashes, we´re way off topic!!

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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:17 am

If we start making jokes about "supersonic" aircrashes, we´re way off topic!!

Pray tell... what was the joke?

The fact remains that the airframe did exceed supersonic speeds in what could have been a controlled free-fall
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dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:56 am

dtwclipper You are correct sir! Yessir, the aircraft hit mach 1.012 in a test done by douglas at edwards, and just to make SOlnabo happy ChuckYeager was flying an F-104 chase plane next to it. The feat was not repeated after this on purpose, but the DC-8's bondafides were set in stone. No wonder they are still flying strong today!

c-boy...Leave it to you to take this to the next level....what did I tell you about the villagers and their torches? dude, that was cold hearted, I mean there probably was some kind of a record set for fastest powered and probably controlled descent by an airliner, but I don't think I'da told that ... i'll repeat it though!  Big grin

[Edited 2004-07-11 00:00:54]

[Edited 2004-07-11 00:02:43]
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dtwclipper
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:00 am

So, where do I collect my Drink?
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dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:01 am

At LeBourget next year at the Air Salon. We will be posting a thread on this later. See you there. Ian
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dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:06 am

C-boy, if you make it I'll buy you one too, just for being the well-informed, yet amusingly ascerbic smart ass you are.
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Northwest717
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:15 am

OMG, why are you all jumping on C-Boy? He just stated the sad truth. Somebody asked a question and he answered, stating that the results were tragic! I mean, it wasn't a joke and he wasn't making a smart-ass remark at the expense of those poor people on that Egypt Air 763ER. He wasn't out to make fun of them. Even if his comment came off as disrespectful, I am sure he did not mean it to. Yes, it may have been slightly inappropriate to bring an air crash into the conversation, but his point was legitimate. I'm sure he didn't mean to come off as disrespectful.

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HlywdCatft
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:18 am

I seem to recall a 747 over Canada doing the same back in the late 1980s or early 90s in an emergency situation like depressurization.
 
dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:19 am

Dude, relax....I was poking fun at him, and if he took it wrong he is certainly capable of responding. He made a point that, whether it was serious or intended to be funny, made everyone step back and say "uh, did he say that?"

His ability to pull factoids like and inject them into forums is one of the reasons everybody reads him, his tendency toward dry humor is one of the reasons most people seem to enjoy it.
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Tasha
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:38 am

This is interesting....

But have any of these aircraft (other than the TU144 and Concord) ever done it with PAX onboard?

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:44 am

oh, heck no, at least not on purpose...outside of any fatal incidents. The ride it takes to get supersonic in a turbojet aircraft would be pretty rough on the pax  Smile
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whitehatter
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:48 am

I am sure I read somewhere that the DC-8 also took some damage on its supersonic flight.
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dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:20 pm

Pick up the latest issue of "WINGS" magazine and take a look. I did not read of any damage, but will investigte other sources. Hey, this is a good reason for a letter to Gen Yeager.
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gigneil
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:05 pm

A China Airlines 747SP also exceeded the sound barrier when it lost some 20,000 ft of altitude over the Pacific, yet managed to limp to the USA and land safely despite structural warping.

N
 
dtwclipper
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:10 pm

There was no damage to the A/c.

See: Great Airliners, Volume II, Douglas DC-8, Terry Waddington
World Transport Press, Miami , 1996

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cicadajet
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:15 pm

EL AL 747. During tests after the crash in Europe.
 
airxliban
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:34 pm

didn't some Pan Am 707 also get into a nose dive on the way to hawaii and then attain supersonic speeds?

something about the wings being permanently bent up about 6 inches after that.
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DLKAPA
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:38 pm

Didn't the first 747 airframe to be tested hit .99 mach in a shallow dive?
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Lufthansa
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:06 pm

I'm with those that say Concordeboy.... ur out of order.

whilst I respect the fact that you are extremely knowledgeable, is it really necessary to make smart ass comments or distasteful jokes? Seriously, I've wanted to add you to my respected users list so many times, but I can't because of this kind of behavior or hopelessly biased comments.... Your respect rating really amazes me at times.

I'm with the DC-8 crowd. It was indeed a DC-8 as stated above, and of course, was followed by the Tu-144.

Just like the first Transatlantic jet service wasn't the 707! It was the Comet 4. God it must have been an amazing and exciting time to be alive in aviation.

Just out of curiosity, has anybody heard how Tupolev are progressing on the Tu-244? If they can pull this one off, it may just put them back in the race, and it could spell disaster for the A380 and 7E7. But that, is a really big if.

It amazes me that we haven't been able to progress past this point considering the concorde was build in a world without pocket calculators.
 
transPac
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:31 pm

This topic is discussing pax planes that have gone supersonic. I don't think ConcordeBoy was being disrespectful nor do I feel that his response was unwarranted. People discuss fatal crashes on here all the time so why are some of you jumping on his back this time? If his remark was a joke as has been suggested I doubt he would have put a  Sad after it. Lets not start drama unless its REALLY necessary okay folks? Back to the topic, how many cases have there been of recovered supersonic dives with pax on board? Seems like an incredibly critical situation, I didn't know airliners could take that much stress.

--Paddy
 
B747FE
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:18 pm

"Glamorous Glennis" is the name of the X1, used by Chuck Yeager in 1947 to do it.
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dl021
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RE: 1st Civil Airliner To Fly Supersonic

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:01 am

Hey, this was meant to be lighthearted folks....take a little trivia quiz and turn it into a hem-haw. Quit taking things so seriously all the time. Be  Smokin cool

B747FE Yes, Chuck Yeager was the Pilot of the Glamorous Glennis (named for his wife) but we are discussing airliners here, so the DC-8 is the answer. I say again that Yeager was flying chase on that DC-8 flight in an F--104, which is an amusing and probably planned coincidence.

I do not know of any other intentional supersonic/transonic flights made by a non-purpose built SST airliner.

C-boy....they are dipping the torches in fresh pitch. You should know they fear what they don't understand.
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