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jetpixx
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New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:40 am

I've heard from a few people that FLL is in discussions with a few more International carriers with possible service starting in the later part of the year, to early part of 2005. Can anyone confirm these airlines or find any news? I've done a few searches and cannot find anything. Anyway, South African Airways is expected to resume services and park in their old spot using a 744 from Johannesburg. In addition, it has been speculated that KLM, which is to pull out of MIA, will change to FLL using a 763. There is also talk that Frontier might pull out of FLL, but Virgin America or USA, whichever it is called might make FLL a destination once they begin services. Also, AA, in addition to GUA as an added destination, is considering LIM and a possible flight to LHR using a 763. Like I said, I do not know how credible this person is, but some things made sense and others did not. I am curious to get anyone's thoughts, as this is essentially my home airport and usually workers seem to know things before people like I do.
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:10 am

How you know about other airlines will begin new service? Will even F9 will not get pulling out from FLL either.
 
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jetpixx
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:16 am

This is what I am asking for - I am curious if anyone else heard these speculations. It is rumored, hearsay - not truth. I heard it from a guy who works down at the airport from others he talked to. I looked and could not find anything online, so I want to see if there is any truth to this. It would be exciting to have KLM, as I am a fan. Is there any sense to them perhaps pulling up stakes at MIA and moving to FLL? I just do not see where gates would be available at the present.
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:19 am

No, it will not able moving from MIA to FLL either. It should remain with all of those international flight with AA.
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:26 am

Maybe MAH4546 will answer with all of the question about FLL & MIA. Hope this is your helps.

Regards!
 
dutchjet
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:30 am

Re KLM and FLL, I have heard nothing about this. KLM dropped MIA in favor of reopening service to ATL and does not have any plans to return to South Florida. Martinair will be picking up some of the capacity as they will fly more flights between MIA and AMS this winter with their 763s. Martinair at one time offered service to FLL, but later centralized operations at MIA.

Concerning AA and a flight from FLL-LHR, its not possible under Bermuda 2, flights from FLL could not fly into LHR and even if they could, I do not think that AA has an extra slot at LHR to operate such a flight. AA's service from South Florida to Europe will remain at AA. AA does plan to add more Latin American destinations from FLL - Guatemala City and Lima could be among the cities to be served, but nothing definite has been announced.

Discussions about FLL and Frontier are very strange - some say that the Denver-Fort Lauderdale route is among Frontier's most successful, while others say that Frontier will drop service to FLL since the route is losing money. I have no inside info and do not know which side to believe, but the planes do go out rather full, I dont know what the yeilds are like - the fact that Spirit has just announced that it will drop its FLL-DIA service may encourage Frontier to continue with route if, in fact, the route is not performing well since with one less LCC on the route, Frontier is likely to now do better on those flights.

South Africa returning to FLL? I dont think so...the rumor concerning SAA is that their US gateway city of ATL will be dropped and replaced with IAD in connection with SAA joining STAR and wanting to take advantage of UA's presence at IAD. There is also a rumor that NYC flights will move from JFK to EWR, but I have no idea why SAL would do that....UA is no longer a major player at EWR. I think that, at some point, SAA would like to serve South FLorida, but I would guess that service would be flown into MIA. The FLL thing in the past was basically a tech/fuel stop although I understand that passengers were allowed to deplane at FLL....I am really not sure how that worked.
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:47 am

Yes, it was long time ago with 3 years of before 9/11. It is dropped service to SA - Florida">FLL with SA. It will make relocated with their flights.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:50 am

Dutchjet:

The rumor about Frontier pulling out of FLL has come up before, about six months ago.

I've checked, and the last stats I can find are for March '04, when Frontier's load factor DEN/FLL was better than 92% (Federal T100 stats). At that time they were offering at least 2 x daily, plus a red-eye on some days.

As to yields: Travelocity has some junk fares ($183 r/t) for September/early October, but UAL/Ted is the same at $183 and Spirit is lower at $143.

Mostly the junk fares only apply on Mondays and Tuesdays, and aren't offered at all after October - no surprises there, they are the worst months for Florida travel.

I tried American Express and the lowest they offered for late August/early September was about $300. Which also isn't bad for the time of the year.

I'm fairly ruthless about all this - if a route isn't making money, drop it - but in this case, it seems odd given those figures, and given that a lot of Frontier traffic to FLL is connected with the cruise lines.

I'd love to source the rumor. An employeee for another airline, perhaps?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:55 am

Is that not getting pull out from FLL on Frontier Airlines and will even continues on these flights?
 
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jetpixx
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:22 am

OK, so the London-FLL thing will AA is not happening and likely KLM was false, too. The AA thing sounds legit. I miss the SAA 744 - I used to go down at 5am right before the sun came up (I work 6pm-3am, so I am not weird and waking up early or anything) to see the big bird land and refuel for an hour before heading off to ATL an hour later. I got a few good shots of these planes on a couple clear mornings. I hope that Frontier does not end up pulling out. I enjoy the diversity that FLL has - as they offer a few different things even MIA does not. Thanks to all for writing back and offering up your knowledge on the subject - it is always best to hear differing opinions and viewpoints rather than one airport employee (for an unnamed airline  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ) who heard from others around the water cooler.
 
fsuwxman
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:22 am

Where did the SAA 744 park at FLL when it stopped? Terminal 4?
ASOS... Another Shi#y Observation Station
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:31 am

Yes, it is and it was use into the Terminal 4 for customs.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:57 am

F9 actually flies once daily to FLL now. Interesting. I did not know that NK Was pulling out of that route, also interesting. I wonder if FLL-DEN has the loads, but not the yields?

The F9 lands every day while I am at the pool at camp...awesome sight!

I would expect AA to expand at FLL...definently...also, I think WN will expand (are they number 1 or 2 at FLL). I was driving by FLL and the entire terminal was empty (1 plane at a gate and one taxiing out)...definently room for expansion. Also, DL has 2 gates which are not used during the day except in delays, I think that if song fails, we could see some expansion (i.e. M80s, 732s, 738s, 757s, and maybe a 763 or 764) to the northeast and possibly to the west coast. FLL fo DL will never be what it once was, but I could definently see some 738s fill the void for some song service if necessaty.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
scottysair
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:01 am

Will you even get anything more new service out of FLL very soon?
 
MAH4546
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:17 pm

Re: KLM

KLM is not coming to FLL.

Re: SAA

SAA would love to come back to FLL, but until the rule which requires all passengers to disembark at the first US destination is dropped, it won't happen.

Re: AA/international

FLL can have flights to Heathrow, actually, because it is in the Miami area. That is how Baltimore has Heathrow flights (since it is in the DC area). It's more complicated than just starting FLL-LHR, though, because I think there are some other stipulations, but, in the end, Bermuda II does allow for FLL-LHR.
Though AA's international expansion at FLL will be more Central America-based, with GUA and SJO strongly rumoured.
a.
 
njdevilsin03
Posts: 622
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:28 pm

Would love to see that service that people rumored Delta was going to start from FLL to CDG. That may have bene the start of good things to come. After that maybe more airlines would of followed in the European expansion instead of everything being focused on MIA even though FLL is the dominant domestic airport of the two.

717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
 
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jetpixx
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:27 am

FLL-CDG would be an exciting service for the area, although I am sure something like AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA or LHR might do a bit better. Does anyone know how the AM flight to MEX does or what the load factors are on Cayman Airways or Avianca's still fairly new services? I am curious if FLL is able to compete with MIA or if people still prefer the larger airport. FLL is much more convenient for me.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:35 am

That may have bene the start of good things to come. After that maybe more airlines would of followed in the European expansion instead of everything being focused on MIA even though FLL is the dominant domestic airport of the two.


FLL is the domestic gateway, MIA is the international gateway. That's the way it is, and that isn't about to change. FLL does not have the facilites to handle the international traffic that MIA does.


Does anyone know how the AM flight to MEX does or what the load factors are on Cayman Airways or Avianca's still fairly new services?

Cayman Airways and Avianca both do well. AeroMexico was a flop, and FLL service was dropped in favour of more MIA service. FLL can't compete with MIA with international traffic. They can easily handle a daily each to some key destinations, like Caracas, Santo Domingo, and Bogota, but not at the frequency and choice of carriers that MIA has. The majority of the international traffic goes to the Miami area. A notable exception is Jamaica, since the Jamaican community is centred in Ft. Lauderdale (hence, Air Jamaica does very well at FLL with three daily Kingston flights).
a.
 
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jetpixx
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:48 am

Thanks MAH4546 for the knowledgeable and quick response. It is appreciated - and you are respected by yet another user!
 
Ealsys1
Posts: 211
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:07 am

"I am curious if FLL is able to compete with MIA or if people still prefer the larger airport. FLL is much more convenient for me."

Jetpixx,

I find MIA to be much more convenient for me. I live south of MIA and I know the airport very well so I know where to park and when to arrive. Even though the "North terminal" is in a state of constant flux! I can't wait to see MIA once all of the construction is done! FLL is very nice but just too damn far for me.

Sam
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:09 am

I think they will make their decision about AA. It will plans to change more new routes anytime soon.
 
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jetpixx
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:12 am

Thanks EALSYS1 - that makes plenty of sense. I live in Delray Beach and I prefer FLL over MIA or PBI. PBI is just too limited and for my purposes, MIA usually seems a bit more expensive, although I flew UA through there recently and have nothing but good things to say about my experience with both the airline and the airport itself.

On a side note, if I am spotting - MIA is hands down the winner any day of the week or year!
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:14 am

You want to take flying from PBI or FLL. This is either way decide to take on UA.
 
jeffie813
Posts: 239
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:32 am

I live in Delray Beach and I prefer FLL over MIA or PBI. PBI is just too limited and for my purposes

well, therein lies the reason that PBI service stays somewhat limited: south county residents like you that use FLL over PBI. luckily, this trend is starting to turn around as south county cities join forces with the county in promoting PBI, and as martin, st. lucie, and indian river counties grow. as this happens, airlines add new service, and frequencies. the county on a whole suffers when palm beach county residents use FLL. worse of all, PBI suffers. that is why i go out of my way to fly out of PBI.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
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RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:41 am

FLL can have flights to Heathrow, actually, because it is in the Miami area. That is how Baltimore has Heathrow flights (since it is in the DC area). It's more complicated than just starting FLL-LHR, though, because I think there are some other stipulations, but, in the end, Bermuda II does allow for FLL-LHR.
----------------

Very interesting point, I was not aware that a FLL-London flight could technically be flown as FLL is in the Miami area. As pointed out, there are probably several other reasons that would prevent the route from being flown, including gaining an additional slot at Heathrow and AA is likely to keep its transatlantic service out of South FLorida at MIA. New AA international destinations from FLL will be larger latin american cities and/or some additional flying to the islands where there is adequate demand.

 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:24 am

I don't think not able flying from FLL-LHR and it was some of long time ago with Laker was service to LGW or LHR before.
 
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jetpixx
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:22 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:07 am

Jeffie813 - I basically fly where the economics make sense. When I can fly from FLL-SEA for $259 or PBI-SEA for $350 - it is a clear choice. When I can fly from FLL-CLE for $198 or PBI-CLE or CAK for $279 - again - clear choice. It is not that I have anything against PBI - but the fares are way too high. When I flew in Oct. 2003 to MHT, oddly enough, fares from FLL were sky high and I got a fare of $168 to MHT - so that was a clear choice. I do not choose FLL because I like it better - it is quite the contrary. PBI is much less congested and the parking is so much more simple. I can be off the plane, grab my bags and in my car in 15 min at PBI. It is simply a matter of economics for me - and until that changes, I am not going to pay extra money to fly from an airport that is 10 min closer.
 
jeffie813
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:18 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:25 am

jetpixx - i completely understand your decision making process. what irks me is the people that have it in their minds that FLL is always cheaper than PBI and book their airfare without even checking PBI. i travel to europe 2-3 times per year and i refuse to fly out of MIA. (i am one of those who truly don't care if i have to make a connection.) i'm typically flying to INN, and consistently for the last 6 years, fares out of PBI are $60-100 cheaper than FLL or MIA. what does this mean? it means that, yes, i do compare the airfares. and if it was hitting me as hard in the pocket as your city pairs were, i would have to force myself to fly out of FLL also.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:52 pm

I am understand with all of the situation about FLL or PBI. If you want to take FLL flights not go to PBI, either. You mus to try find with the good cheaper ticket out of FLL and they are very good friendly with their person at the FLL.
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:18 pm

Is FLL still planning to build the new international terminal?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
fly_yhm
Posts: 1647
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:52 am

If Canada 3000 gets off the ground they are planning yhm-FLL 3x weekly. With 757-200.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
Ealsys1
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 10:55 am

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:10 am

Jetpixx,

90% of my flight are on business and they prefer that you fly from your "home" airport. If I had to fly on my own dime, and I didn't have gold status on AAdvantage, I'd probably drive the extra miles to FLL for JetBlue or Southwest.

Sam
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: New Airline Service At FLL

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:06 am

Fly_yhm,

Is that for Canada 3000 to plans service from YHM-FLL for 3 weekly service and this exactly I remember while ago before of 9/11 to FLL with Canada 3000.

Regards!

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