martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:37 pm

Latest news on CNN is that they will START making ramp workers and shop owners go through metal detectors due to the recent "threat". When I hard this I was shocked..... They will conficsate a nail clipper from you, yet jet fuel and baggage handlers are home free? What guarantee do I have that one of them isn't being paid $10,000,000 to put a bomb on a plane in a suitcase form? None. What guarantee do I have that explosive chemicals aren't mixed with the Jet-X? None.......... now time for some fun phrases!

Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet.....

......No cockpit visits during flight are allowed
......Pilots have to pass through metal detectors
......They will confiscate nail clippers and anything sharp from you (what am I going to do?? Try to cut the pilots ear off millimetre by millimetre?!?)
......They claim security is extremely tight
......A lighter is viewed as a weapon (Yeah... as if I'll light my seat on fire  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)


IMHO, I'll be ROTLMFAO If I hear all this about security being tight again in the USA. Thie above fact I" didn't know until CNN told me and now I guess we have another fear on our minds........

"The Attack Of The Baggage Handlers!!!! Big grin  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Cheers
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:40 pm

You might not set your seat on fire, but as the case of Richard Reid goes... you might try to light that bomb hidden under your shoe. As for the nail clippers... if a shoe can be considered a deadly weapon in court, a nail clipper can be considered a terrorist tool! It's still hilarious though.
If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
 
NLINK
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Y

Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:15 pm

Pilots have to pass through metal detectors

This is not true. It is up to the airport/airline, TSA doesn't care either way. All airline employees have gone thru multiple background checks and if there is any hint of wrong doing there access is revoked.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:21 pm

you're right, we don't. so now what's your point?
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:34 pm

We better not get to that point of paranoia.

It is hard enough to get your job done on the ramp. But that idea would make it even worse, if not impossible.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:30 pm

I don't even know where to begin with your post.

So let's go ahead and run ALL rampers through a metal detector at the airport before they go out on the ramp. They still have access to tons of sharp objects out on the ramp, or in the baggage areas under the terminal.

They could be accepting millions of dollars to plant a bomb on the plane???!! Are you serious??!! How exactly do you propose they do that????? In order to get a bomb onto the ramp it would have to come in a checked bag, right? And for that checked bag to get onto the ramp it would have to be checked by a passenger, right?? And we all know that checked bags are screened for bomb materials..... So how in the name of everything holy are they going to get a BOMB onto the ramp? Take it out there with them??? That wouldn't be suspicious, now would it? Big thumbs up

As stated, pilots are required to pass through a metal detector. I don't know where you get that they aren't. MAYBE some small outstations dont' require them to...but that is VERY rare. And, if pilots are required to pass through security and a metal detector, so are shop workers. Besides. Do you want to tell me how a shop worker is going to get onto an airplane without a boarding pass????

Security is extreemly tight. Now, I will admit that on certain days the metal detectors are set loser than others. I've passed through security with my cell in my pocket, change in my pocket, my belt with metal buckle, my cell phone clip with metal as the spring....etc. Nothing, no beeps. Then, on other days, took everything out of my pockets, but neglected to take off my belt, and set off the alarms....so it DOES very, but not too often. The example I cited occured one time. So, ease up MartinairYYZ. You are still safe. You will not die of a terrorist attack any time soon. Big thumbs up
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
NLINK
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Y

Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:44 pm

About the pilot's passing thru the checkpoint, it is up the the airports FSD(TSA)/ Airport manager and Airline management. The only requirement, well I will not go into that on a public board.
 
FL1TPA
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:29 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:34 pm

I agree with S12PPL, passing through security would be EXTREMELY time consuming and pointless for ramp workers. Having access to the secured area means having access to items not permitted in the gate area. For instance, If I tried to carry a pair of scissors through the checkpoint - TSA would take them. I would then go downstairs through our badge-access door and get a pair from OPS. This doesn't even address the pains of removing your steel-toe shoes EVERY time you go through. Sometimes I bypass the checkpoint 6 or 7 times daily between the ticket counter and OPS. If I had to be screened each time, I would really want to kill someone! Also, why did we go through the 10-year background check and FBI screening to get an airport badge if we must be screened each time?

Actually I've had the concerns that MartinairYYZ voiced, but about the low - paid cleaning staff rather than air carrier employees. In TPA the airport cleaners don't have as much access as airline employees do, but they have enough access. If someone offered a $6.00/hr. cleaner $10,000 to get a bomb past security and hide it in a restroom say, do you think they would consider it? Then all the bad guy has to do is pass trough the checkpoint clean and go to that restroom and insert the bomb in his/her carryon. The cleaner takes the $10,000 and skips the country.

Kinda scary, huh? Definitely something to think about.

Tim.

<>
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
FL1TPA
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:29 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:41 pm

Also, I forgot, TSA has told me personally that their main goal is screening of baggage and carry-on luggage. If an employee which has no luggage comes to the checkpoint with an airport badge, they are usually told BY TSA to use the bypass door. They say "Why should we screen someone with no bags that just as easily could have bypassed us all together?"

Makes sense to me.

Tim.

<>
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
744rules
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:34 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:19 pm

In Bru, everybody who wants to get air-side is screened. That is, if your ID permits acces in the first place.

In some occasions, people wearing safety shoes even have to take them off.
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:56 pm

Also remember that a lot of the ramp/mx workers arrive or work during periods when, at most non-hub airports, there is no TSA. Ramp workers generally arrive at outstations as early as 5:30 am, and even earlier for some airlines. As an Operations clerk for NJ, I regularly arrived for work at 4:00 am in order to get my paperwork done in time for the first flight (job of three people being done by 1 full timer and 1 part timer).

Additionally, most rampers have "methods" that allow them to bypass security. I won't go into them on a public board. But suffice to say, most airports are just fine, as well as the TSA, with these "methods."

The strange thing is, prior to 9/11, when I worked at NJ, if the gate was in operation, I had to be screened to access ops (that was a pain in the @$$). If it wasn't, I could just go in, no problems. After 9/11, when I worked for FL, we were allowed to bypass security pretty much every day, regardless of whether the gate was operating.

Makes ya' think, don't it?
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2053
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:24 pm

All employees at PHX must clear security to get into the secure area.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:39 pm

If I had to be screened each time, I would really want to kill someone! Also, why did we go through the 10-year background check and FBI screening to get an airport badge if we must be screened each time?

This whole issue is discussed in a post about anybody going to the airside concourse written up by ScottysAir. Do you think extending the overworked TSA will help anybody by always having to go through security every single time you want to go airside? I've only passed through security once other than to board a flight. And that was because I was off-duty and got a gate-pass from NWA. Its a complete waste of time to go through security, when you can't take a scissors through (as an employee), but afterwards, you can get one from your OPS. Theres a reason employees have a badge.

EDIT: The name of ScottysAir's post is "Finally, Just Got Good News For Non-passengers".

[Edited 2004-07-11 15:42:12]
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
LineMechQX
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Y

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:51 pm

So yeah lets force ramp workers to go through security everyday. Yet we'll still go ahead and let them load those gun cases for the hunters out there. And we'll just cross our fingers that they don't decide to do anything else with them. Come on now.
MartinairYYZ, if my 3 background checks that took up to 3 months to complete, and my fingerprinting aren't good enough to make you feel safe, then it might be time to give up flying commercially.

Late
PC
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:55 pm

Most rampers carry a knife or a box cutter for cutting cargo tie down ropes and plastic foil for the pallets. For myself as a mechanic, besides a knife I have a toolbox full of potential weapons, like scewdrivers, hammer, mallet.

Also, most airports have miles of perimeter fence. What wouls stop an employee from throwing a bag with contraband inside across the fence in a spot not watched by video cameras (and believe me, there are plenty of them in all airports I´ve been working in), walking through the security check and picking it up later?

Checking employees would be a futile exercise.

Jan

Edit for removing some typos

[Edited 2004-07-11 16:16:11]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:08 pm

Most rampers carry a knife or a box cutter for cutting cargo tie down ropes and plastic foil for the pallets. For myself as a mechanic, besides a knife I have a toolbox full of potential weapons, like scewdrivers, hammer, mallet.

LOL. Didn't even remember I carry one. Just a force of habit. As for security cameras, most of an airfield is covered in cameras in the US. Even if you dropped something over the fence, who can guarntee that it will be there when Airport Operations or the Police were to do a patrol and find it before you get back to it.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:56 pm

For the most part, once the employee is inside of the employee parking area (an area that requires their airport/airline ID to be presented in order to enter), they are considered to have been cleared to enter the airport's SIDA (as many airports consider the employee lot as part of the SIDA, even if the lot is not on the airport property). Cars don't get searched, the only thing they might look for is if they are smuggling someone into the lot who is not authorized. The only time at many airports that flight crews will have to go through security is if it is not their home airport. There's no telling how many airline employees that are travelling non-rev don't go throuh the security screening process at their home airport.

The newest TSA SD reguarding SIDA badges is aimed more towards those who are employed by retail shops, concessionaires, and their contractors. Companies like HMS Host, Hudson News, Paradies, Anderson News, & The News Group are the ones that are affected by these new directives. Prior to 9/11, the employees that worked in the retail and food concessions did not have any sort of ID at all. Now those that will just work the shops and not enter sterile areas have a non-SIDA badge, which looks a lot different from an airport's SIDA badge. At many airports, there are many different colored SIDA badges, with each color representing a different group involved in operations at an airport. Airline employees have one colored badge, gov't employees (TSA, FAA, city/state/county airport authority employees) another, contractors (airline related) another, contractors (construction) yet another, and concessionaires another. Many of these badges have restrictions, like concessionaire badges usually do not allow escorting of non-badged personnel into sterile areas; airlines employees can't enter certain areas without permission (like the AOA), while others have full access to anywhere and everywhere in the SIDA.

The only way I could see all airline employees getting screened would be if they built a facility at airports just for screening employees. At somewhere like ATL, it could be hard to do because there are so many airline employee parking lots (most of them offsite of the airport). You would have to do employee security screening away from the main screening area at most airports due to the number of employees that work there.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:25 am

ya know before they sit here and have people criticizing us (ramp) not going through security, why dont they worry about themselves (TSA) and how they can improve screening. How many times have you flown and seen a TSA agent just walk right through and beep but no one does anything about it. I've asked them and they say well he's working, well so am I. But they could care less, "step over here and take everything off" it is beyond me why we are treated with such disrespect.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:29 am

I've asked them and they say well he's working, well so am I. But they could care less, "step over here and take everything off" it is beyond me why we are treated with such disrespect.

Nice excuse. How do you know that what beeped on a TSA agent really isn't a concealed handgun or other type of weapon. I'd be more worried about the TSA agents doing something than an airline employee. Airline employees don't go into your bag, TSA does. TSA can search your whole bag, and if they really wanted to, they'd be the ones to "plant" a bomb or other device on a plane. The airline employee who is loading the plane would never know either.

Thats who you have to worry about. Not us RampRats

RampRat Revenge!
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:48 pm

Shoot MD11Engineer.

Did you see that posting I put up a couple of weeks ago about the Black Bear that managed to get on the Airport here in Anchorage.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:02 pm

smcmacsmn32...........you make it sound liike i'm the bad guy here, what excuse am i making up?
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:10 pm

I think it'd be fairly challenging to screen all employees. JFK, similar to many airports, has so many entrances and exits to/from the ramp area. Airline and airport employees are constantly accessing these doors. It's in the best interest of their work and efficiency to come and go as they please. Screening these employees would certainly become a nusance.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:33 pm

At MCO, I saw a man with a hand-held metal detector "screening" the food service people prior to entering a LTU 330.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:41 am

At MCO, I saw a man with a hand-held metal detector "screening" the food service people prior to entering a LTU 330.

Last I heard, contract catering and other service personnel had to be screened before entering an aircraft. Airline employees doing those jobs did not. But then, it's been two years. It may have changed.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:04 am

Considering the fact that most ramp workers are required to wear steel-toe shoes, making them go through security with the rest of the pax would make security already more of hassle than it already is. You take a large international airport, throw in a couple thousand extra people into the security line, and you wouldn't miss your flight, right?

Airline employees have extensive background checks performed more than you would at most other jobs, and random checks are done regularly. Personally, I welcome them to give me an FBI check yearly if they like, as long as they throw in an eye exam for free.

Plus, given the fact that this is our "job," makes it more of a reason of why would they do anything? Considering the financial ramifications for airlines after crashes, it would be like taking money out of my own pocket. And many items that cannot be taken through security by passengers is used out on the ramp, so that would present yet another problem.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:14 am

There are some very good comments here. The point is....screening ramp workers every time they go onto the ramp is a pointelss, time consuming, waste of the TSA's time and efforts. EACH ariline employee, reguardless of they're possition with the airline, has passed a 10 year FBI background check, as well as been fingerprinted. Now days, those fingerprints are run through, I'm sure, just about every computer that checks against known terrorist connections. Let's face it, times have changed.

Now, if I were to tell you the things available to QX ramp workers, or QX security procedures that were in place last year while working for them, it'd make you cringe, and probably get me arrested. So I won't go there. Let's just say there are plenty of sharp pointy things on the ramp that rampers use on the job Smile
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
NWA757
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:53 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:16 am

We better not get to that point of paranoia.

It is hard enough to get your job done on the ramp. But that idea would make it even worse, if not impossible.
Fly High!
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:20 am

smcmacsmn32...........you make it sound liike i'm the bad guy here, what excuse am i making up?

I wasn't talking about your excuse.... I was talking about the TSA "He's working." excuse. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12362
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:31 am

My brother works for a major paving contractor where he was involved with paving work done airside at EWR. He has to have clearances, told where he can go, is supervised/escorted, his truck can be subject to search, including looking under the truck with mirrors, etc. He has not had to go through a metal detector. I understand the concern and lack of personal screening of airside employees. There have been a number of stories in the USA by local and national TV and newspapers discussing this issue.
All lower level employees or contract company employees should be searched at certain checkpoints at the preminter of the airport. Most airports usually have very limited numbers of access points for airside people, they must have ID's on them and can be subject to search at any time. Many of these ID's may have chips in them that sense entry/departure at a checkpoint like where I work, the MetLife/200 Park, NYC /ex-PanAm building, I have to pass my ID over a sensor at a gate, show it to the security people. At an airport, if had such a system in place, if any incident did happen, they have the names of all of the possible suspects, so they could find someone quite quickly.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:39 am

You´ve got an idea how many thousand people are working on a busy international airport every day?

Just after 9/11 they parked a federal border police armoured personal carrier on the ramp where we were working on our aircraft. They looked into our tool boxes, just to find knifes, screwdrivers, hammers etc.
The worst thing was those copsd pointing an LMG from that armoured personal carrier at us while we were working. Next time this happens I will walk out, and my colleagues with me.

Jan

[Edited 2004-07-12 19:40:28]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ThreeWests
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:00 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:25 am

What I dont understand is how will sreening all ramp workers make anything safer? The "evil" ramper who is trying to sneak stuff in will simply avoid the screening process. For those with a SIDA badge the number of ways around security are only limited by your imagination. The only good it would do is verify that the non "evil" rampers are in fact not "evil". - over and over again, day after day, tax dollar after tax dollar...
If you can read this your flying too close
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:49 am

This is definitely very ridiculous...

We are loading almost daily different kind of sharp objects to cargo compartments from guns and ammos to knives and even swords!

Is there really need to go through the screening when I'm going to load those items...? Oh god, I forgot scissors in my pocket, now I don't pass the security!  Laugh out loud

This world is crazy and getting even worse... Maybe we should ban the whole aviation? Train and bus companies would like that... and no security worries anymore either!  Nuts

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
Super Em
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 7:55 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:43 am

l can't speak for the other Airlines at JFK,but recently Delta have been screening A/C cleaners and Catering personnel before they can enter the aircraft. Most of these workers enter the aircraft via the stairway alongside the jetways.
 
FlyIguy1
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 7:54 am

RE: Ramp Workers/Shop Workers NOT Metal Detected Yet..

Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:05 am

Most larger airports actually have a security checkpoint for the employees to go through before being allowed into the SIDA area. But also every airline employee, at least in the US, is required to have an FBI background check and to be fingerprinted. It is true that all airline employees may have to pass through a security checkpoint soon but its not for sure yet.

Flyiguy1

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