dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

Clearing Standby PAX

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:15 pm

So, the other day, I show up at a very small town airport, hoping to get on an earlier flight. I have about 50 mins before the flight leaves, or 2.5 hours before my scheduled flight.

Well, no one at the ticket counter, no one at the gate, I call the airlines "elite" line, and they gladly rebook me on the earlier flight. When I get back to the gate, 30 mins prior to departure, I am told that there are no seats available as all the stand bys have been cleared.

Uh, I am full fare Y, and you have already filled the plane? "YUP", I am told.

Can some one fill me in, on how this is at all possible, the a/c was still at the gate, and actually left 3 mins. early.

Did I miss something?

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:22 pm

Well, I guess that you either missed the check-in- or boarding-deadline...

It doesn't really matter if the plane was still at the gate or not - if it was filled with passengers who were checked in and there at the right time, they simply got put on the flight instead of you.

At least that's the only real scenario I can think of for that happening...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Spoon04
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:53 pm

DTWclipper, if you were present in the gate area 30 minutes prior to departure and were told that all seats were filled by cleared stand-by psgrs., it sounds as if you were hosed. Revenue passengers are normally accepted and accommodated up to the ten-minute mark (in some cases, fifteen minutes) prior to push. Normally, at the ten minute mark, "no-show" seat reservations are cancelled and stand-bys are cleared off the respective list. Regarding your situation, if any non-revenue airline passenger had been cleared prematurely, that passenger should have been taken off the flight and you, as a revenue passenger should have been accommodated (prior to the ten minute cutoff). The only other scenario I can think of that would pose problems is if another airline cancelled a flight to your destination city - in which case those passengers were rerouted en masse on your carrier. However, rerouted psgrs. off another carrier are normally rebooked as full revenue and not placed on a stand-by list (unless the new flight is showing a limited number of available seats). Perhaps it would have been interesting to have had a supervisor explain how all seats could have been filled with thirty full minutes to push. In any event, it must have been quite frustrating for you NOT to be accommodated on the flight you desired.
 
FL1TPA
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 7:29 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:55 pm

I'm skittish about asking if this is FL or not - I'm not sure I'd want to know. At FL the way it's supposed to work is:

If you have a full-fare tkt, you can be listed on standby at no additional charge for any other flight that day if available.

If you are an A-plus Rewards Elite member, you can get a CONFIRMED seat on any other flight that day with a Y class reservation, if available.

Standby passengers on resonably full flights (within 20 seats) are not cleared until 10 min. prior to departure in order of listing.

Revenue standbys from earlier/later flights are ALWAYS a higher priority than non-revenue standbys (employees, buddy passes, other airline, etc.).

I am at a loss as to why they said the flight was full and / or they could not "clear" you to board.

Tim.

<>

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:40 am

FL1TPA

It was XJ/NW from Ohio (I don't want to name the station, but it wasn't CLE, TOL, CMH, CAK, or CVG) to DTW on a full fare Y class ticket.

My biggest problem was NW Elite services gave me a confirmed reservation when I called from the Airport (there was no one at the gate nor the ticket counter). Rez told me to go the gate and they would issue a boarding pass.

When someone did show up there, she said it was too late, she had cleared all the stand by pax.

dtwclipper

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:55 am

Revenue passengers are normally accepted and accommodated up to the ten-minute mark (in some cases, fifteen minutes) prior to push.
*****

Thy are accepted if they arrive at the gate at that time, and are already checked in. You were not yet checked in, and thus the gate people did not have you on their lists.

This is less about accomodating you as a passenger as it is about keeping the airlines schedule on track. Thus they have cut-off times when they clear non revs, cut off times for checking luggage, and cut off times for checkin.

If the airline has a listy of non revs, and they have to wait until less than 10 min prior to start clearing them in the hope that passengers who were not originally listed for the flight, and havent checked in for the flight might show up.

The aircraft would then go out late, and possibly create missed connections, missed slots and perhaps other inconveniences.

You made a comment about your being full Y and these non revs (lepers) got the seat before you, but the reality on the ground is that everyone else did things by the book, did what they were supposed to do, and you didn't. You changed your booking to an earlier flight, and thus have to accept that sometimes this causes problems.

If I had defend part of your story it would be that there would normally be staff at checkin for you to get on the list, and thus be known to the people at the gate. However in some of the smaller out-stations, the limited number of staff are utilised for everything.

If this is the case, then if you are not there when check-in closes, then you have little to complain of.

J
 
NLINK
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:42 am

NW policy states that all people must be checked in at least 30 minutes before departure. That is the cut off for checking in people at NW. Any less than that and theres a good chance you want get onthe plane.
 
Spoon04
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:43 am

Artsyman, with all due respect, Dtwclipper's status as a full revenue ticket holder seeking access to a different flight is known as a GO-SHOW. The passenger can be booked AND simultaneously cleared off a stand-by list in one computer input, provided the flight has available seats. I know because I performed that function hundreds of times with passengers fitting DTW's scenario. I can't begin tell you the number of flights I worked (both narrow AND wide-body) where I was GO-SHOWING passengers on the fly at the very last second in order to accommodate them, posing no threat of a delay. It's no big deal.... When a revenue passenger arrives at the gate for an earlier/later flight, the seat map is checked, and the input is processed. Then, at the ten minute mark you just start clearing the remaining people - non-revs AND any other revenue passengers. Ten minutes allows plenty of time to accommodate ALL passengers, and the computer provides agents up-to-the-second information on all available open seats. And if worse comes to worse, GO-SHOWS AND non-revs can just be presented "Open Seating" blank boarding passes at the very last nanou-second. Granted, sometimes at smaller, downline stations with limited staffing, it might get a bit more gnarly finding agents who can assist, but since I've work at both hubs AND small downline stations, the procedures are the same (with identical results). I just found it odd that at thirty minutes to push, Dtwclipper was not accommodated more appropriately.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:55 am

Copy of letter sent to XJ & NW:

"Shortly before 4 o'clock this afternoon, I attempted to reschedule my return to Detroit from flight NW (Pinnacle) 5875 to NW (Mesaba) 3353 from Dayton to Detroit.

There was no agent working at the ticket counter nor at the gate between 4 and 4:15 pm.

I called NW Elite services and had them rebook me on XJ 3353, confirmed space, as my ticket was a full (same day) Y fare DTW-DAY-DTW.

At 4:22 a gate agent appears and very rudely and undeserving of my patronage of Northwest and Mesaba, informs me that the plane was full and no seats were available. I told her that I had just changed my reservation. She informed that she had already confirmed her standby passengers.

I am distressed at the lack of communications between Northwest Elite Services and the Dayton Ticket/Gate agent. How can one confirm me, and another deny me boarding? How can Mesaba board stand by passengers prior to a full fare Y coach fare with a reservation?"


Guys, I didn't make this up, why would I?


Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:02 am

My guess is here that we were not talking 30 min from departure, as I do agree at that point it should not have been a problem. I have often had situations however where the customer says he/she checked in 30 min prior to find out that it was 12 min, or 18 min. While it doesn't strike me as odd that non revs were cleared 30 min out, it does surprise me that they were seated.

J
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:09 am

Artsyman,

Are you at NW? If you are and have the capability of looking in the system and seeing when my reservations where changes I will gladly give you the info.

I started to make changes well in advance of the 30 min. rule that you are quoting only because there was no rep available at the ticket counter or the gate.

Please don't call me a liar.

dtwclipper



Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Spoon04
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:17 am

Assuming we're dealing with a non-rev situation (clearing them off stand-by)... If I had ever been accused of denying a full Y revenue passenger boarding in lieu of non-revs, I could automatically expect a most unpleasant chat with either a concourse Service Manager, Supervisor, Station Manager, OR WORSE ! Obviously, I wasn't in Dtwclipper's shoes, and I can only go with what has presented scenario-wise. But the more I think about it, not accepting a full revenue passenger THIRTY FREAKIN' MINUTES before push is totally unacceptable - someone is obviously overdue for a remedial course in gate procedures
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:28 am

Please don't call me a liar.
****

I don't recall doing thhat in any of my posts, I do recall saying that in my experiences, more often than not, the situation is different than the customer says it is.

I do however agree that IF you were at the gate, checked in 30 min prior to departure, that it is not acceptable for them not to board you, and continue to board Non revs.

j
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:31 am

either you missed the check in deadline or the person behind the counter didn't get it.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:32 am

this is something i'd write a letter to management about.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:52 am

Jetdeltamsy:

I already did, to both NW & XJ. XJ Responded in about an hour, saying that they are handled by NW, and they forwarded my e-mail to NW.

I'll let you know what transpires

dtwclipper
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
JTNWAFSD
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:30 am

2 things about this is
1: how did you get to the gate without checking in I am from a small station and unless you checked in on the internet or at the SSD or by an agent you cannot get thru TSA security.
2: You were not on a standby list or any other list for you were not checked in and the gate agent was not looking for you if you were checked in or verified on the stand by list they should of had a seat for you.
What you encountered was an agent who could have cared less that day which is sad but it happens and as a gate agent myself it does not take a long time to process standby's and I would never clear enough to fill the whole plane that early because I try to avoid situations like the one you encountered. the small station I work in we always have one agent at the counter at all times because one flight overlaps another so we are working with passengers most of the day. you should direct your questions to the station manager not the supv. about clearing standby's and about noone working the counter.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:42 am

Jtnwafsd :

1. Since it was a same day r/t I of course checked in via the web before I left my home in the a.m., so I had a boarding pass.

2. When I arrived at the airport (my appointment finished early) there was no one at the ticket counter, so I called NW Elite Services (I am platinum elite), they rebooked me on the earlier flight. This was one hour before departure. I waited there 15 mins.


3. Once I got to the gate, through security etc, it was close to 15 past the hour. The agent was printing boarding passes. I said I wanted to get on the flight. She asked if I was on the stand by list, I said, no. I have a reservation, elite services just changed it. She looked at my boarding pass, and then she said, too late, already cleared them.

4. I called NW back, and they put me back on the later flight.


Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
JTNWAFSD
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:48 am

So the gate agent would not even put you back on your original flight you had to call res back to get rebooked was it a busy day or did this agent just not give a crap?
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:02 am

I felt it better to extricate myself from the area, and make the change myself (this is a lot nicer than say she didn't give a crap). She was not very interested in working with me.

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
UALFAson
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:40 pm

My apologies to you, Dtwclipper, for your unpleasant experience.

Even if all had transpired exactly the way you said (and I have no reason to doubt that it did), with 30 minutes before departure, why didn't the agent pull one of the non-rev stand-bys?

It doesn't happen very often, but I have been pulled off flights when a revenue pax shows up at the last second, and I've seen it happen to others. The joke is that you can never really breathe a sigh of relief that the seat is yours until wheels are up.

I think you have a legitimate complaint.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:40 am

Response from NW:


In your recent email, you alerted us to your concerns regarding the
service provided while traveling with us. On behalf of Northwest
Airlines, we sincerely apologize for the unprofessional and uncaring
attitude portrayed by our customer Service Agents in Dayton. I can
certainly understand your frustration with this situation.

Please know that we recognize that obtaining high customer satisfaction
levels are a necessity for business success. There is virtually no
better way to create a favorable impression than by proving to customers
you are interested in them and value their opinion. The behavior you
described clearly falls far short of our high standards.

When a report such as yours is received, we will address this
internally. We will coach our employee on the consequences of their
performance. To that end, a copy of your communication has been
forwarded to the appropriate management staff.

We acknowledge that our customers are the reason we are in business.
Please know we consider it a privilege to serve you.

We value you as our loyal customer, and for that reason we have added
7500 WorldPerks bonus miles to your account XXX XXX XX. You may visit
our website at www.nwa.com/freqfly/ to verify these miles have been
posted. Please allow 3 business days for miles to appear.

Mr. XXXXX, as our customer, especially our Platinum Elite members, you
are in the best position to point out areas that need attention. We
appreciate the opportunity to respond and hope to welcome you onboard a
future flight. Given this privilege, I am confident we will provide the
excellent service you deserve and have every right to expect.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:46 am

Yeah I do think you were fed a line, gate agent might of cleared the stand by list to early and thought well you might not say anything and she/he would get away with it... Good for you to have said something.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Spoon04
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:33 am

Dtwclipper, a most appropriate reply from NW I believe..... It appears they take situations such as yours quite seriously, and rightfully so. I trust you are satisfied with their response.
 
MSPXJGuy
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:37 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:51 am

DTWClipper, wow, sorry about your experience. I'm with XJ and most of the agents here in MSP would wait. If the flight was that full, we would hold off giving seats to all the stand by passengers until it was closer. The 30 minute thing on the regional end doesn't really do much for us. We would never deny trying to help out someone if they arrived like 15 minutes prior unless it was oversold. We might be inconvenienced but Non-revs know that there is a possiblity that something might happen and they might not make it. Even stand-bys should be aware of this. Someone at Northwest obviosly wasn't being accomadating to you. It doesn't take much to board an Avro, and boarding one if doing it fast can be done in 15 minutes.
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:15 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:35 am

DTWClipper....

Good to hear you were in DAY on Saturday.....our(TZ)counter is just down the way from NW's. I actually rerouted a passenger on NW5875 from our 4:05PM flight that had a mechanical delay.

Sorry to hear of your experience here...hopefully you will come back. Oh and btw...the folks here in DAY are NWA employees and not XJ.

Chris

 Nuts  Nuts
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
n757kw
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:07 am

I find the reply from NW to be a little lacking. The reply to me seems to be a form letter without any research done on the situation.

As for the employee, something is not just right. I have 2 issues, no one at the ticket counter and not even helping you at the gate. I know from my experiences working for ASA at small stations that there is sometimes no one at the ticket counter. I always think this is bad, because I have been waiting to check in 30 minutes before a flight with a few others and no a soul was around. The second issue is the gate agent. The only time I have been cleared 30 minutes before a flight as a non-rev is when the plane is not even close to full. If it is full, I am usually the last one on.

Anyway, off my soapbox. I would rate a letter to NW giving the whole story. That way maybe someone might look into the problem.

N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:15 pm

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:35 am

DTWClipper.....

Just one question....were the standbys that were cleared non-revenue passengers or were they were revenue passengers??? Because, as stated above....if they were non-rev....those people would have to be pulled off for you....if they were revenue standbys then they are first come first serve. Just wondering.

Anyway....hopefully next time you're in DAY things will turn out better for you!

Chris

 Nuts  Nuts
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:37 am

Skyway1:

I don't have that information, sorry. All she said was that she had cleared "stand bys."

I however had a confirmed reservation, 30 min prior to departure, but a boarding pass for the later flight, however according to Spoon04's post something was not right with the way things progressed.

At this point I am over it, I vented to NW & I trust that they will look into it, doing DTW-ORD-DTW Tuesday and DTW-CVG-DTW Thursday so I will have more to say later.

Thanks,

dtwclipper



[Edited 2004-07-13 04:40:30]
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
northwestair
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 11:25 am

RE: Clearing Standby PAX

Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:12 pm

when I go into work on Tuesday I'll call my Supervisor Buddy that works in DAY and see what happened to the employee. Anytime they say Coaching all that means is that the complaint goes into your main file in the station and management tells you not to do that again.
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly