glennpower
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:41 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:00 am

Well this is my first post,topic"Varig",the first time i flew with Varig was in 1988 when i first came to Brasil,what an airline,fly in economy and you could eat filet migon on real plates with little salt and pepper pots and very good wines and not forgetting fantastic service from the cabin staff,this was pretty much the case through the nineties,how times change,now i know that post 9/11 has been very difficult for the aviation industry,high fuel costs etc,the well run survive and post profit while the ill managed do not.
Look at SIA,VS,BA,LH and here in Brazil Tam,all have weathered the last couple of years well.
I have been a varig smiles Diamond card holder for 2 years running and 2 years gold before that.I fly 7 or 8 times to Brazil each year with varig because they are a star alliance member,but i will be sadly changing carrier this years end to either Tam (hopefully they will join skyteam as has been touted) or with Ba.Varig these days is a company on the edge of collapse,wage delays,
planes impounded (777 in Paris 767 in Miami) indifferent ground staff many times and if you are unlucky to fly intl y class,expect a very poor service with even the odd scowl from cabin staff if you so much as dare to ask for another drink ,c class service on a par with good y class service such as Sia.MD 11 (5 just bought from swiss,who funningly are using brand new A340 on there ZRH to GRU route.whilst a great plane,in the hands of a near bankrupt Varig. all is plane to see,tatty fixtures and fittings ife if your lucky is a Brazilian film and unappetizing food.I have traveled c class many times,anyone who travels a lot c class with other carriers would know what i am talking about.the 2 777 leased new are very nice just hope that ife does not crash any more (flew a few times when they started on CPH LHR GRU route but now fly AMS CDG GRU route,the other two 777 bought from BA i have not traveled on,they fly JFK GRU,and if anybody has any info regarding f c y seating and ife system please post a reply,anyway back to moaning about RG You can send e-mails to there Smiles (ff program) centers and get no reply for weeks sometimes months and since my last e-mail in March nothing,still waiting for 7000 miles renovation bonus on my card plus upgrade vouchers which i think they no longer offer as i assume another cost cutting exercise.
I just hope that when Varig goes under,which it surely will in the next 18 to 24 months unless they strike lucky with there new routes and upturn in global traffic that Tam can quickly assume intl rights to RG routes.
Varig is controlled by the rubem berta foundation which under the control and influence of Yutaka imagawa made some fundamental mistakes,not least forcing Ferando Pinto to leave(now doing a pretty good job running a profitable
TAP.
I wish varig had the kind of management found at BA under Rod Eddington and could return to being a first class airline.
A sad and disgruntled ex Varig fan.
 
GaleaoCumbica
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:11 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:45 pm

Hello,

I am Brazilian and I am still proud to say that Varig is a Brazilian airline.
Yes, they are facing several kinds of problem and I am not an expert to say where are the mistakes and how they will survive, of course, if they can survive what they are going through.
I agree, service is bad, FA’s not really happy in following Varig service rules, but what they can do?
Just remember if you travel Y class, you never will receive a proper service. Most airlines offer bad food, bad seats and that's it.
Yes, we do have exceptions but we can count them using our two hands.

If Varig “dies”, I am sure we will see another carriers going to the same hole.

TAM is nice but I still don’t trust them, even with new a/c’s, just because their histories and I also had a bad experience back in 2001, flying from VIX to CGH, with a hard landing under heavy storm, nervous crew, a hell. I never felt comfortable flying TAM.

So, let’s keep the faith!

I do want to see Varig flying around! I love RG MD11’s!

GaleaoCumbica
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:49 pm

Thanks for the consideration into turning TAM´s customer!
 
AMS
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:34 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:00 pm

I have to agree with GLENNPOWER,

I also remembered a different kind of Meal/Inflight Service in the 80's beginning 90's. However I think that RG cabin crew is still very friendly towards its customers.


Regards,
AMS
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:58 pm

I have flown Varig quite often and can't believe that this airline will go under. TAM In my opinion is not a good airline and I would never go near them, this goes for VASP as well. Varig is the official airline of Brazil in my opinion and has great service and dependable planes. I hope they right the ship!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
miaskies
Posts: 1237
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:08 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:17 pm

Has Varig upgraded one of their MIA routes to MD11 rather than 763?
I could have sworn I saw a Varig MD11 on approach to MIA on my way to work yesterday at about 7am.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:31 pm

It is funy those who really do not know the real situation of them and keep pushing. They are living based on their glorious past...their time has gone.

What a hell is the concept of a good airline?

*Is an airline good, when it has debits of near USD3 Billion?
*Is an airline good, with a negative patrimony of another near USD2.5 billion?
*Is an airline good, when it does not pay their taxes?
*Is an airline good, when divide salaries of its employees (those that earns more than USD400 a MONTH) in to two parts due to cash flow?
* Is an airline good, when their worldwide recognized inflight service in general deteriorates considerable?
* Is an airline good when of one of their MD11 in flight to CDG had to divert in emergency to LIS because nbr 3 engine was dismantling in the air?

Official airline of a country? Hahaha...can someone tell me what is the official airline of USA?

Come on...



 
erikwilliam
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:30 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:35 pm

And yet someone still finnancinf Varig.Dam, I wish someone could finance me like them.....I could work for 20 years and make no money at ALL.
Vairg WAS THE brazilian carrier, was.....new times, new story, JJ is on top now, and seems that they´ll face the batle with GOL, not Varig.Vasp is just a joke  Wink/being sarcastic
Galeao, JJ is fine, maybe U had bad stuff, but thei´r fine, otherwise wouldn´t have the market share rose to 34% last month.

JJMNGR, a bit off topic but, I posted on Embraer Orders, do U guys see JJ ordering EMB´s anytime soon, since F-100´s are about to go???

Have a fine day, amigos brasileiros.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
Guest

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:41 pm

Disappointing to read of both Varig's financial predicament & the comments on their service.

I travelled twice with them in the mid-nineties and I was bowled over by the service - easily better than BA, who were rated by most people in those days.

I've not travelled back to Brazil since then, but had no hesitation in recommending them to a colleague who travelled recently. Sadly, she was very disappointed, so it was interesting to have Glennpower's comments.

I hope they turn this around; I still have a soft spot for them.
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:45 pm

Erik, no plans yet.

As far as we know F100 are going to leave 2005. The last Le Bouget that Mr. Rolin went, it was announced in the press that TAM had intention to order ERJ190 and A318. But till now nothing was already decided. There are no internal information about the replacement of the F100.

I will look to the other topic you posted.

Cheers.
 
Regis
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:56 pm

I agree that RG is not what it was 10 or 15 years ago. But so aren't BA, LH, AA, CO, DL etc.

Service standards in Y class have deteriorated worldwide in the last decade (with the exception of Asian carriers). One will be always frustrated in travelling coach class in 2004 and expecting the same level of service of 1988.

I fly SWISS extensively and I can tell you that their Y cabin service on long haul sucks big time (even on their brand new A340) compared to former Swissair. But times have changed and that is the new (low) standard. Live with it or fly C class.



[Edited 2004-07-14 15:08:38]
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:02 pm

Regis is absolutely right...want comfort and good service? Fly C class....

But I have to tell you...last JUL05th I flew C class on AA and champaign was served on a "pastic glass"...not the sort of thing to expect of a C class service...

 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:17 pm


Hi!

I had the chance to fly with VARIG and TAM just a few weeks ago. I flew VARIG from Rio to Curitiba ( PP-VQZ a 737-300 ) and Curitiba to Rio ( PT-MNI a 737-500 from Nordeste ). I also flew TAM from Curitiba to Asuncion via Foz do Iguacu ( PT-MQT a Fokker 100 ) and back ( PT-MQM also a Fokker 100 ) and my comments go in this way. VARIG inside Brazil looked quite decent, I will not say it's a top quality service but it's decent, both airplanes looked quite good, clean, and in both flights they were almost full, specially the flight from Rio to Curitiba, we left after 7 pm and the plane was packed. I had a pleasant surprise flying TAM, those little Fokkers looked in great shape, very clean, they looked better than VARIG. The crews were also nice, I flew TAM Mercosur so at least some of the crew were not brazilian, in our flight back from Asuncion all the crew was infact paraguayan, very nice and very friendly! I don't agree that TAM is worst than VARIG, at least both provided me a great flying time but if we look closely to both fleets it looks for me that TAM have younger and much more modern airplanes than VARIG. The only new airplanes I saw from VARIG was a 737-800 with winglets, the rest of the fleet are 737-300/400/500's. VARIG is indeed a great account for both Airbus or Boeing to try to sell new airliners. TAM have brand new A319's and A320's and the only airplane that they might consider to change would be the Fokker 100, maybe with the A318!!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:20 pm

CV990,

Would suggest to you fly abroad on TAM´s A330...you will enjoy!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:41 pm


Hi JJMNGR!

TAM indeed gives me the feeling that they are a very well organized airline. Just to add to my experience with then, when I was waiting for me flight from Asuncion to Curitiba we got the information that our flight was delayed due to weather conditions ( our flight came from Santiago do Chile then Asuncion/Foz do Iguacu/Curitiba/Buenos Aires..... can you imagine that?!?!?!?! ), in the TAM lobby they had a small bar with all sorts of sodas, peanuts, chips, and also a man playing paraguayan music and all of us that were TAM passengers could go there and get some refreshments, very nice!!!!
If they had flights from Lisboa I think I would opt for them!!! But we still have only VARIG and TAP.
Thanks and regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:53 pm

CV990,

TAM had a study to fly Portugal but it is not easy to make money. VARIG looses money in Portugal for years. Fact is that nowadays, one important issue to make an airline do some money is Business class service which is very hard to find to Portugal.
There is a huge traffic of passenger to/from Brazil and Portugal but it is based on tourism and rates are not good for a third carrier.

I love to see TAM´s A332 at LIS when RG had very serious problem with the lack of aircraft and we leased ours form some period. It looked fine to me and remembered my past days working for TAP...good time in TAP, good times in LIS, must confess that I would love TAM to fly to LIS...but very hard route to make money.
 
B747FE
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:09 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:03 pm

I think Varig still has a quite good service, and of course we love garotas Brasileiras!!!
"Flying is more than a sport and more than a job; flying is pure passion and desire, which fill a lifetime"
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:20 pm

JJMNGR,

Your bias in this topic is obvious. Say you want about Varig, over the years they have been the best airline in Brazil. Their financial issues are serious and like I said I hope they can survive. I have flown a few airlines from the US to Brazil and Varig has been the best in my opinion.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:26 pm

NIKV69,

It is not a matter of "saying what I want"...I just posted facts. VARIG was really a great airline but form me and for many it is past.
Suggest you; to fly TAM form US to Brazil and maybe you you change...maybe.

Rgds
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:25 am

How can you rave about TAM? I was just on their site, could not find a flight from JFK to GRU. When I looked at one of their international schedules some of the flights were operated by Varig! Then I went to Expedia and looked for a flight in October, almost $1000 and the flight was operated by AA! For my money taste Varig still beats all in Brazil. I can go on their site and they have great deals from NY to GRU. $600! The flight is not operated by someone else and I get a nice MD-11.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
GaleaoCumbica
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:11 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:46 am

Hi all!

JJMNGR

Hey, are you flying TAM for free?
Come on, let's face that Varig is going through bad situation but we all know they will survive.
At least let's have a hope!

Varig, Varig, Varig...Cruzeiro, Cruzeiro...

Do you remember this jingle?

GaleaoCumbica
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:31 am

With limited experience on Varig (one flight from GRU to GIG), I've not really formed a final opinion on them... but considering the fact that 3 or 4 flight attendants were not able to bring a (plastic) cup with orange juice to my seat until about 5 minutes before we landed in GIG (on a B737-800 "filled" with about 80 passengers, not to mention that there was no snack served at all, while on TAM I always got two rounds of drinks and a (hot) sandwich on my flights between CGH and SDU (as well as a real meal on a GIG-GRU flight after being upgraded to C-Class), I can absolutely say this: I'll try Varig again, bit I absolutely prefer TAM.

The fact that, after sending in a report about some service inconsistencies that I experienced on my last flight back from Brazil, I got upgraded to Fidelidade's Red (top) Card status (I was a Blue (middle) status member before).

Unfortunately, the card hasn't really helped me - since the meetings in Brazil that I had to attend have ended for the time being, and it'll probably take until next year before I'll be back in Brazil again... by which time I'll have the basic membership again...

Too bad...

Nonetheless - after experiencing TAM on four longhauls (two in Y, two in C after being - THANK YOU TAM!!! - upgraded), they're absolutely my preferred choice in that direction.

Varig would have to give me a really good deal for me to cross the Atlantic with them.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:22 am

In the past year I have flown Varig LAX-GRU-GIG-GRU-LAX (twice), GIG-SSA-GRU, and countless CGH-SDU-CGH. I have also taken TAM MIA-GRU-GIG-GRU-MIA.
All of my flights on both RG and JJ have been on time, and all flights provided very friendly and efficient inflight service. I continue to be impressed by the Brazilian carriers standard of inflight service as compared to their North American counterparts flying the same routes. (CO, DL, AA, UA, AC).
I can honestly say, I have had no complaints with either carrier.
What I have found interesting though is that on several occasions, I have gone to the Varig ticket counter in CGH to purchase a ticket to SDU at RG, and was then placed on an JJ flight to SDU.
I will again be flying back to GIG with RG via MEX in two weeks and I am looking forward to it.

Aloha
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:34 am

Funny how this is becoming another "vs" type of thread, no RG vs JJ.

It's a fact that RG is in very bad shape, and JJ is doing greatly. I honestly believe JJ will become the most important carrier of Brazil. But it's not yet... JJ has some things to achieve first: more destinations (Europe and North America mostly), larger fleet.
Besides, after JJ get that, and if RG survive (I also think they will), there is a tradition in world aviation, a heritage that RG had buildt for 75 years. It's like Pan Am: Continental can do it fine... but it will never have the place PanAm left...RG has carried Brazil flag all over the world. That's something JJ have to achieve and not look at it as it doesn't matter.

JJMNGR is right, USA has not a flag carrier, and there is no need for it actually, but Brazil does. As in Britain; Virgin is quite an airline, but is not a flag carrier. Or Australia before Ansett failure, or Germany, Japan, Spain, Ireland, Israel, etc. There are many cases where the "other" airline become more popular, but it never gets the place of "National Carrier", because there is something more behind that title.

But again; I think the "business oriented" mentality of TAM will "win" the battle; they are adding more flights and it seems thet are walking the right path. But after all; why have to be a battle? Brazil is large enough for to afford 2 international carriers, for the pride of all Brazilians.

Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:02 pm

Personally, I don't think there is any chance of TAM overcoming Varig. As bad as Varig's money situation is. Most of the people I know in Brazil won't go near TAM. Whatever the case I think Varig is here to stay.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:11 pm

NIKV69

TAM´s gateway in the US is MIA and the domestic routes to connect in MIA are served by AA. In the beginning of TAM´s intl operations, it was pratically an airline for Brazilians. As we fly under codeshare with AA, this situation changed and now many Americans, Canadians and Europeans in general, prefer to fly TAM no matter if it is not a direct service. I am sure that if a passenger really wants to fly on a direct service from JFK, RG or AA is going to be the best choice. But if a passenger is really a TAM customer because than will fly to MIA with AA to connect with TAM to GRU. It happens every day. There are two markets. Those that prefer a direct service, and those that prefer "the service". That´s the difference.

Galeaocumbica,

Yes i fly TAM for free and believe me I do not get a penny more. I remember the jingle and occurred to me that part of the jingle do not exist anymore...the other part still a doubt to me.

Arcano,

In terms of fleet, TAM do not stay back on VARIG´s...TAM have 85 aircrafts. Remembering that for the last year TAM is Brazilian market leader with 34% of market share while VARIG with 30%.You are right, VARIG has 75 years of tradiction but their good old time has gone. It is not possible for an airline to survive based on good memories and good services provided..." Ahhh all those missing days..."
I understand many have different point of view, but this is something umbelievable to me.
I entered into the aviation industry working for PANAM. I am pround of being part of them, but it was impossible to survive...I still believe that PANAM even today, is the best embassador that US could had...a trade mark already recognized woldwide as "the American presence"...Could them survive of "good old times memories"? No.
VARIG is taking Brazilian flag to many parts of the world but loosing money. TAM do not have intention to fly worldwide to go to the same path...TAM will fly where it can continue to be a profitable airline.

Cheers,

 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:22 pm

So I should book a flight to MIA and then fly to GRU? Give me a break, TAM has a very limited schedule. NY has tons of people that need to fly to SP. For TAM not to have direct service with their own aircraft is sad. Just another reason Varig in my opinion is #1 in Brazil.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:43 pm

I also think it is said when AA arrives in GRU and transfer its POA, OR BSB, OR CWB passengers to TAM...I also do same question...why they do not have their own direct service to these destinations???
I am ok with other´s opinion.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:47 pm

Who cares about AA? I am talking about Varig. For you to represent TAM as the new airline of Brasil with not one single non-stop from JFK-GRU is funny. This route is crucial not to mention very popular. I mean two of the biggest cities in the world? You can have AA and TAM. I choose Varig.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:19 pm

My friend, good luck with RG!!! I don´t care also if you never fly TAM in your life and preffer to fly to GRU with BA via LHR...or AF via CDG or JL via TYO (althought they fly JFK/GRU).
Please do not fly TAM.
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

Varig- my ramblings on the subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:42 pm

Hey NIKV69,

I live in NYC and flew the JJ-codeshare JFK-GRU-JFK flight on AA metal last March and was very satisfied with their service. I've flown AA throughout South America frequently and have never been dissatisfied with their service. The flight was on a 772ER, with PTV and forgettable food. While the flight was 'packed to the gills', the flight was on-time and well-serviced.

On my way down, I connected in GRU for a GRU-EZE flight on JJ and was very happy with the carrier; it was my first experience with JJ and thought the service was great.

JJ does not need its own non-stop to JFK for now. AA appears to be doing a fine job with the codeshared flights.

Also, I've flown RG from JFK to GRU-GIG before and actually prefer to fly AA, or CO for that matter.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:07 pm

I never said TAM needed it. I said that if someone is going to say TAM is this great airline they should at least have non-stop service with their OWN planes. Not AA. AA is ok, terribly over-rated but a good airline none the less. I have used United to SP as well. In my opinion I still like Varig.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:56 am

Incredible...imagine that every airline must serve all cities in the world with direct service to be a great airline...its a joke...this airline doens´t exist....
I am out of this....
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:02 am

I didn't say every airline. Stick to the facts please. You post nothing but TAM propaganda. TAM is great, TAM is the new airline of Brasil. Varig is in bad fiscal shape and does all these horrible things. YET, I can't go JFK and get on a TAM aircraft and fly to SP. Doesn't mean that every airline has to fly everywhere. Just means a Brasil based carrier that is said to be great should at least have non-stops to SP from LAX, JFK etc. In your rush to bash Varig you forgot a lot of facts.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
pualani
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 12:38 pm

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:16 pm

I am flying MEX-GRU on RG this month and this thread is already making me dread the flight. No PTVs in Y, substandard food, rude f/as. I suppose I will have to make the best of it and just bring some valium and sleep the worst of it away. I really liked CO's service to Brazil this past March and i would fly them in a instant again if the price is right.


Pualani
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:03 pm

Just means a Brasil based carrier that is said to be great should at least have non-stops to SP from LAX, JFK etc.

Why? If they make more money only flying out of MIA in the US (and only CDG in Europe), why should they fly to other airports? If they're not going to be making money then what's the use? To be able to say "We've got daily flights to New York and Los Angeles"??? Just to have yet another flight on routes that are already sufficiently served by other airlines, some even in codeshares with TAM?

So: what, really, would be the use?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:22 pm

Not make money? Are you kidding? I have flown probably 20 times JFK-GRU and trust me there wasn't an empty seat on any of those flights! Whether it was red-eye or a morning flight!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:33 pm

uhh... NIKV69,

Gee, perhaps there's a REASON JJ does not fly JFK-GRU; maybe the route does have plenty of O&D traffic, but it is low-yielding traffic; maybe JJ's arrangement with AA works just fine; maybe there's some type of regulatory provision limiting its flexibility; maybe it has some type of contractual arrangement with AA... who knows...

If the GRU-JFK-GRU run were a viable, profitable option for JJ, don't you think they would have initiated it by now?

JJ does not appear to be strapped for cash and it should be able to rustle-up the required capacity if needed.

This RG vs. JJ argument is quite simple: both companies may be private enterprises, but RG's corporate governance is a disaster. RG has had something, like, three CEO's over the past couple of years and is incapable of renegotiating its onerous debt load with its creditors. Like an aged, has-been film star from the 1950's, RG relies on its past glories and faded traditions to carry it through.

RG's creditors should form a creditors' committee (if they haven't already) and assume control of RG's operations to prevent any further deterioration in its franchise value. RG's shareholders, including the Ruben Berta Foundation, need to GO! RG's senior management needs to GO as well.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:26 pm

Speaking of Varig, how do you pronounce "Varig"? I have heard people say "VER-ig" (imagine a Jewish pronunciation of "where" for "VER") but I have also heard "ver-ig" (a softer pronunciation).

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
The777Man
Posts: 5926
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:51 pm

I flew on RG's new 777 (PP-VRB) in Jan02 LHR-GRU and had a great flight. The flight wasn't very booked which was great for me to have 3 seats for myself by the window. Food was great, service was good and great inflight entertainement. I have flown on 29 different carriers' 777s and this is one of my best flights that I have had in a 777 in Economy class.

I know that Varig is not doing very well in ecnonomically and hope that they can turn it around. From what I understand, part of the problem is that is owned by the Ruben Berta foundation which is owned by the employees. The employees are very reluctant to give up anything in pay or workrules to make the airline more competitive. Hopefully, a change in the ownership structure will help and improve things for Varig.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
donzilasse
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:06 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:37 am

For the fans of Varig I can say that they absolutely were a class airline but, that this was now a long time ago. With the extreme debts of Varig I have a very hard time to see how anything can help them to survive and the best which happened was that TAM and Varig did not merge. To the people posting their thoughts on this site and expressing distrust to TAM I seriously doubt that you have been on any TAM flights during the last few years. TAM is not only a class act in Brasil but has also turned into a international class act as well. I fly on TAM every month between MIA and GRU and domestically from CGH to UDI for the most part but Wednesday on my way back to the U.S. I also were on their flight from RAO to CGH. Everything from check-in to the greeting of the captain and the tradition of the red carpet not to mention that you always are serviced by friendly and helpful "aero mocca's".
Youngest fleet in South America with their nice Airbuses and on the 330,s also the PTV,s is off course another added value. For the frequent flyers their Fidelidade Program also is excellent especially once you reach the vermehla level.
I am an American and my first choice to South America is without a doubt TAM. At this point in time TAM is profitable and I just hope that they continue to pick their routes in a smart way and that they are not falling into the trap of a to rapid expansion like so many others. GOOD JOB TAM!!! YOUR'E THE BEST!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:25 am

KIVK69,

I don´t think that flights full os pax means profitability. Maybe the flights are all full os pax because of low fares....

I flew CO GRU/EWR/GRU at the beggining on a DC-10-30 once; and service was great, specially because they gave me an up-grade to C class. Flight was full and at that time they were in the market with rates arroud USD400,00. Making money, I doubt.
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:21 am

SafetyDude: In Portuguese, as in Spanish, vocals have only 1 sound. Although, when Brazilians say it, they add a "i" at the end.
So, It sound something like "Vareegee". The "a" is the stressed vocal of that word. In the "gee" syllable, the "g" is not pronounced as "y", but as you pronounce it in "Gala". In Spanish, we just say "Vareeg". The "r" has a soft sound, some way you in English never do (do you know the Spanish sound of the single "r"?).

I agree with Nikv96. A national carrier can not be an airline with only 2 international destination, JKF or just another. It's true that an airline have to make money, but flag carrier is something else. For instance, Avant was the domestic competitor of LA a few years ago. They have better catering, and did some international charters. Does that made it our national carrier? you know the answer...

If Brazilians want to fly a Brazilian airline abroad, and in 99% of the times they HAVE to chose RG because JJ does not give them the chance, come on: Bad food or bad management does not take the "national carrier" title of RG away. I think, even if RG dies, they already won a place in world aviation. Can you say that Swiss or SNBrussels totally replaced Swissair and Sabena? don't you thing there's something we still miss of those?

But JJMNGR: this is not an attack to TAM, or a way of not realizing JJ's huge achievements. Consider it as a challenge. By this I do not say JJ is bad! I just say they have to grow more, and all seems to indicate you will become the leading airline of Brazil. I do not say "you have to fly to JFK for this is a must of national carrier. I just say you still have to grow more. What's wrong/rude of saying that?

I'm dying to give JJ a try when they add SCL!
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:29 am

I believe the correct pronunciation is just how it is spelled. I don't think Varig is going anywhere. I feel in time they will get out of debt. Their routes to me seem profitable. Especially the international ones. All this TAM talk is just that, I don't feel they will ever be the flagship carrier of Brazil. They don't have the routes and using AA and having a great relationship with them is great, but when I book an airline I want to fly them, not someone else. If I wanted to book AA I would.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:15 am

TAM do not have many routes as VARIG because there is no market for both in most of these destinations...the exceptions are to MIA, to CDG and Mercosul...there is no interest in entering into some other same routes, for airfares drop down and TAM loose money.
This has nothing to do with being "national carrier"...who cares about this s...? Customers want a reliable service with fare prices.

Let´s go back in history. The Brazilian company the used to fly abroad was Panair do Brasil and Cruzeiro, not VARIG. When Panair ceased their operations (under very strange circumstances but it is not the case to enter into this now) VARIG assumed these routes.

TAM will wait to see what is going to happen. In meantime, the company is focusing in keeping it´s leadership of domestic market (34%) while RG keeping 30%, G3 23% , VP 10% and the rest with others...TAM will continue to exist to be a profitable airline.

Arcano, SCL is like a traffic reported by the controllers to be same FL separated 3 miles visual...we can report traffic in sight! Soon I have to go to SCL and I will advise, maybe we can meet for a cup of coffee.

After 3 years, I will fly LAN again!

Cheers
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:01 am

I totally empathise with GLENNPOWER's words. VARIG in the '80s and early '90s were something else, and as I've said before, the food was excellent. However, I get the impression they spent beyond their means, and coupled with economic troubles at home in recent years, VARIG has entered a very pronounced nose-dive. With regards to TAM, the numbers do not lie:

  • JJ posted a $55 million profit last year.

  • RG posted a $625 million loss last year.


  • On the other side of the coin, although the issue has been discussed at length many a time, TAM has had some embarrassing problems with their Fokker 100s (almost suggesting a degree of negligence in the airline's maintenance and security), and the A330 venture has gone awry, with 4 of the 9 aircraft leased out and the remaining 5 curiously serving just 2 scheduled international destinations, CDG and MIA.
    Brazil may be huge and merit the use of A300-size aircraft on domestic routes, but don't forget VASP also possessed a sizeable MD-11 fleet a few years back and served several European destinations, among them AMS and ZRH. Wide-bodies make more money flying outside of Brazil than within.
    In two years time I'm sure we'll know with more certainty VARIG's fate. They are passing through troubled waters, yet for now I see no immediate danger of Brazil's flag carrier folding, though in Latin America, such an eventuality can never be ruled out...

    XV

    How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
     
    Arcano
    Posts: 2299
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

    RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

    Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:19 pm

    JJMNGR:Arcano, SCL is like a traffic reported by the controllers to be same FL separated 3 miles visual...we can report traffic in sight!

    Sorry my friend, I don't understand what are you trying to say. Can you re-write your idea?

    After 3 years, I will fly LAN again!
    My God!!!! poor LAN!  Big thumbs up Don't be too harsh with them, ok?

    Soon I have to go to SCL and I will advise, maybe we can meet for a cup of coffee.
    Sure! it will be a pleasure, let me know. Is your visit related to the arrival attempt of JJ in Chile?

    XV thank god! I thought you were dead!

    )(
    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
     
    LVZXV
    Posts: 1729
    Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

    RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

    Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:24 am

    Arcano:

    No I'm not! Though I was stung by a vicious jellyfish! ¿Recibistes mi email?

    XV

    How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
     
    donzilasse
    Posts: 206
    Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:06 am

    Re; Varig A.s.o.

    Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:10 am

    To JJMNGR I just have to say that you can stand tall and be proud over your company. They are doing a great job! To all the people who think that it is necessary to fly everywhere and loose money to be a leading airline I just say that you profile missed out on the business class. The only important thing for ANY company is to make money and stay in business unless you have your government supporting you. Why would TAM go in and fly on destinations where it is not room for them to be profitable? But, I am sure that if Varig would have to reduce their schedules due to their huge losses TAM would be there and they would be able to "cherry pick" where they would like to fly and also be able to be profitable.
     
    Arcano
    Posts: 2299
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

    RE: Varig- My Ramblings On The Subject

    Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:34 am

    XV:
    Sip, lo recibi. Too bad that jellyfish wasn't poison enough...

    BTW as for your comment: "though in Latin America, such an eventuality can never be ruled out..."
    Well, AR is recovered right? then we should fear nothing, RG will live!
    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346