SHUPirate1
Topic Author
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:41 pm

What if an airline (such as Southwest or jetBlue) decided to go into any of NW hubs with a decent operation (in Southwest's case) or focus city (in jetBlue's case)...Northwest has no problem defending their turf when it comes to an airline using the city as a spoke, but has anybody ever tried using either of the three NW domestic hubs as a focus city or larger operation, how successful was it, and how successful would one be if an airline tried it? It seems to me like a knee-jerk reactions like the ones NW pulled on Frontier and, most recently, I-Air, would not be as successful if an airline actually tried to get their foot into the door at one of their hubs, rather than just an outstation...
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nwcoflyer
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:04 pm

Well, SY (Sun Country?) #1 went out of business. Partially because of the competition with NW, and also because of poor management. They had a pretty good operation going at MSP, using DC-10's, however after 9/11 they filed for Chapter 11. The newer SY operates 738s and is much smaller.

NW and SY seem to co-habitate just fine at MSP now. NW has the Lindberg terminal, SY has the Humphry terminal.

I doubt that WN will serve MSP within the next 5 years at all, because MAC and WN can never agree to terms. MSP could be a target of B6 with the new EMB's, but I think they are more set on the east coast.

If an LCC set up shop at MSP, DTW, or MEM, NW would vigerously protect it's territory, and I don't think that they would succed. NW is excellent at chasing out competition. Personally , I don't mind it (and I say that as a resident of MN).
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aviationwiz
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:50 pm

I'm fine with NW, they run a good airline, provide good service, I don't need, or want, an LCC carrier in MSP, I was on WN and it was literally a cattle car, if you thought people in coach class on a normal carrier like NW, or DL were bad, just wait until you see get on WN! Now, I'm generalizing, but when I flew WN, the pax. had no class at all, on NW or DL, everyone has class, even in coach, always polite, they keep to themselves, not being too loud or causing any problems, I can't say the same for WN.

While I'm sure there's a fair number of people that would fly on an LCC to save money, I probably wouldn't, NW gets me anywhere I want to go, of which most are non-stop flights, I can't stand stopping somewhere when I don't have to.

Conclusion: A lot of people I find are happy with NW being the far superior airline here, and I think that even with an LCC, most people would stay loyal to NW, anyone say WorldPerks? A lot of people fly on a specific airline for frequent mile cards, even though it's getting increasingly harder to get on a flight for free.
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WMUPilot
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:31 pm

What about Spirit (NK) at DTW? They seem to be holding their own against Northwest. I do believe that NW tried to block NKs expansion attemps but I can't remember the outcome.
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isitsafenow
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:30 pm

The defense of NW is not limited to the hubs. I-Air is starting 7(count em) non-stop trips a day from Lansing to IAD this week-end. NW is countering with 4 RJ's from Lansing to IAD(non stop). Next week, we will have a total of eleven NS flights a day from LAN to Dulles, up from ZERO today. Lets see what the count is the first Sunday in November when the next major schedule changes comes around.
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HlywdCatft
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:36 am

Spirit was trying to make DTW a hub and DTW still is technically a hub meaning that people from Spirits East coast operations transfer at DTW to fly to DEN, LAX etc, but Spirit moved its headquarters out of DTW a few years back and made FLL the headquarters. I thought the main reason was Northwest's pushiness.

Southwest also I thought was going to make DTW a focus city 10 years back after they moved the DET operations fully to DTW (as you remember WN served both DET and DTW in the early 90s). Southwest was limited to gate space, but I thought for sure Southwest would expand at DTW when Spirit left Concourse A in the Smith Terminal and moved to Concourse C leaving Southwest with the Concourse A extension by itself (the newest section of the Smith terminal only a couple years older than the Mac). Thats six gates there, but as far as I know Southwest has done nothing to expand other than add the flight to PHX and weekend flights to MCO and LAS.
 
dc8jet
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:45 am

NW pretty much matches the fares of the LCCs at DTW. There was an article in today's Detroit News saying that in the past two weeks they have cut fares 30% to 75 destinations from DTW that are served by LCCs. I am going to Florida in September and the fare at NW was the same as NK's. I chose NW because I haven't flown out of the new terminal. NK is the number 2 carrier at DTW so they must be doing ok.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:58 am

Somehow Spirit and WN co-habitate DTW with NW. I'd have to argue that the two both are careful not to tread to hard on NW. WN is actually smaller at DTW than the used to be a few years ago. While started PHX and MCO, they cut back on STL. Spirit is now pulling out of DTW-DEN, and has a notorious habit of adding and dropping routes at will. Their 1 DTW-DCA doesn't match up to NW's 9 DTW-DCA flights.

Spirit and WN serve the LCC needs of DTW without starting a war. They provide low fares, but nothing extremely low, and NW will price match on these routes. Although, with Spirits new A319's and A321's coming and the new rebuilt North terminal, it looks like Spirit might be looking to start something.
 
HlywdCatft
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:06 pm

Actually when I fly Spirit between MCO and DTW in August, the Northwest flight was $10 cheaper than any of the Spirit flights on August 6. The only reason I chose Spirit was because I will get to the airport early and upgrade to Spirits Business class, instead of flying in Northwest's cramped seats on their 757s
 
MAH4546
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RE: NWA's Defensiveness Of MSP, DTW, MEM

Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Spirit is now pulling out of DTW-DEN, and has a notorious habit of adding and dropping routes at will.

Maybe they used to, but they have only dropped three routes in the last two and a half years: FLL-DEN, DTW-DEN, and DTW-OAK.
a.