S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sat Feb 19, 2000 11:44 am

I was reading the SAS A321-thread and the interesting Star Alliance pressure speculation, well what about LOT, who is BOEINGS BEST FRIEND, with all their jets being BOEING (except the ERJs) get forced by Swissair to by AIRBUS planes, such as choosing the A330 instead of the 767-400 or 777??? LOT has a very young fleet and they are very happy with their Boeings....

What do you say about this theory???
I think that they may be forced to go for Airbus in the next deal.
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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sat Feb 19, 2000 7:39 pm

I dont think they will be pressured for boeing. They will order whoever gives them the best deal. And their fleet is quite young. No need for replacemts in the near future.

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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sat Feb 19, 2000 10:20 pm

again and again a childish Boeing Vs Airbus post....,

hey CSA, LOT is maybe a new friend of Boeing but
why can't they change for Airbus like they changed their
old best friends Tupolev and Ilyouchins ?

it's totally nonsense to write that Swissair forces LOT
to buy Airbus aircrafts, Lot management will choose the
aircraft types that gives the best deal...that's all !!!
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Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sun Feb 20, 2000 5:14 am


sorry, but it will be Swissair who will decide what planes will wear the LOT scheme in the future.
Swissair (SAIR group) is a predator, imposing on their subsidiaries what to do.
Sabena is also a victim of them, sacrificing routes and pax. in favour of the Swiss.
Luckily, Austrian got the picture...

SR, BE WARNED, SN and it's employees are on to you, we will not tollerate our demise....

SR employees: please, SN and SR should be one, it is your management who is still thinking that we are two different companies and two competitors. We like Swissair, you saved us from Air France, but the AMP management is CRAP!
(I hope that senior managment of SR reads this)
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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sun Feb 20, 2000 5:28 am

I think that sabena and swissair should adopt a more look alike color scheme. Sabena and swissair could adopt the qualiflyer logo and use the same lettering to reflect the deep partnership. Swissair should remove the flag. Unfortunately this will never happen.  

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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sun Feb 20, 2000 6:28 am

Austrian got the picture and Sabena is attempting to sell its shares that are owned by SAirGroup. SAA is also trying to do the same thing. You would have thought that SAirGroup would have woke up and smell the coffee.

By the way, I have heard that Austrian and Sabena are in talks with other airlines, any input?
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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sun Feb 20, 2000 7:08 am

SAir Group has pumped millions into sabena. Look at their fleet before SAir and after. Look how their service levels were increased and how much destinations were added. Sabena is now turning a profit after years of losses. This was the best that could have happened to sabena. If they were bought by airfance they would have been degraded to a smaller feeder carrier for CDG, not a world class intercontinental airline like they are now. In the US airlines are just taken over. Here in europe the names stay alive!
Austrian is the looser. They have already cancelled some intercontinental destinations and are now only a feeder for FRA and the carrier to eastern europe. Austrian is too small for Star Alliance.

I only think that SAir should know that sabena has also helped alot to swissair.

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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Sun Feb 20, 2000 6:12 pm


I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you a
Belgian you know very well that our former national
company has been massively helped by Swissair in the
past and if we're back on the top that's particulary due
to Swiss funds and management !! Sometimes I wonder
if you're afraid of that kind of 'imperialism' in economics,
you know Sabena shares are controlled by Swissair but
who cares when the company runs good, new
destinations, happy travellers, good service....I wonder
what would it be if it stayed a national company like
in the past with crap service !! About LOT, I don't know
if you have some knowledge about economics but even
when you are a subsidiary (LOT is not yet a subsidiary
of SAIR) you have always a wide range of action
independently of your major !! If SAIR were enough
clever to manage SABENA, I don't know why they
would impose a fleet that doesn't fit well LOT...taking
A340 or A330 would be totally nonsense according to
the best deals !!!!

Even if SAIR is a predator like you wrote, who cares
when employees have a good job and the company
runs you want your our company to be like
state-owned "LA POSTE" or "SNCB-NMBS" ???? crap
service, agents in strike each months, etc....  

once again I wonder if you dislike SAIR...each time you
the opportunity to kick them on the forum !! Are you
afraid of that kind of monopoly of SAIR ?? I'm not if that
can help to preserve companies from death !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: S-AIR Pressure On Lot?

Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:50 am


I am actually a big fan of SAir, but I know the FACTS, and that is that the new combined commercial management of SR and SN (AMP) is putting Sabena flights and Sabena requests second, SR ALWAYS first.
This is appaling. The main reason for this is that most destinations are now managed by SR personnel who still consider SR/SN as two concurrents. Example: for the last six months, SN lost 50% of the German market. This began just after takeover by AMP. SN now knows why: They put all SR flights on top of the list of connections and preferred reservations, Sabena on the bottom...

In AMP, no former SN employee has a key position, the decision-making positions had to be purely Swiss.
SN is not amllowed to open Miami flights, reason: SR flies to MIA and SN "could" detract some traffic from Zurich... SN needs the MIA route for a good connection to Latin America.
It is very clear that Swissair is shooting in their own shoes.

I think that all Sabeniens are VERY grateful to SR for the rescue of Sabena, but please, do not destroy it now...

Oh yes, It were mainly the Sabena employees who are responsible of the service upgrades, we worked very hard to come this far, and we are now finally taken seriously in the aviation world, now SR has to follow.

Tca256, do you have ties with Sabena or AMP?

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For A-330

Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:57 am

I know Paul Reutlinger personally. Do you know him also?
Is sabena really not going to open a route to mia? I thought it was already on the reservation systems.

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Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: For A-330

Tue Feb 22, 2000 12:19 am

My father knows him personally, MIA will not be opened just yet, as far as I know, but Dallas will.
My info comes from SN personnel and my dad (who is telling me less and less, due to company privacy...).
So I may not know everything, what I do know that AMP is certainly not a progress for SN in the short term, lets see what the future brings!
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

For A-330

Tue Feb 22, 2000 12:45 am

Dear A-330
Without SAir-Group Sabena wouldn't existe anymore! I think you don't see the picture.
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Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

Some Clearing Up By A330

Tue Feb 22, 2000 1:55 am

No way.
SAir- group saved SN from a certain dead. AF nearly killed Sabena, but if Swissair didn't invest, KLM would, and they would not destroy sabena, but do the same as Swissair.
I never said that SAir was negative for Sabena, but the Swiss should not favourise Swissair, and look at SN as equal to SR. Qualiflier has the qualities of becoming the leading European Airline (yes, airline, not alliance). A bit of democracy is needed though.
SN and SR are heading for a bright future, and by bringing TAP,LOT in it's system, they will become as big as AF, only with more hubs.
Next step should be the merging of AOM, Air Littoral and Air Liberté in one airline, and Volare and Air Europe also in one, thus creating major players in France and Italy respectively.
AA should be kept as US partner, they are unhappy with BA anyway...
Next things to see from SAir:* Buying part of turkish Airlines
and/ or
* a stake in Thai Airways
How could I hate SAir? My family works for them, I am fascinated by SN/SR, but that does not imply that I am entitled to critisise some of their decisions.
Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, as long as the facts you declare are accurate. Mine are.

Last thing, it is forseen that SN equal SR in terms of passengers by 2002...
so, SR and SN deserve to be on the same podium: the highest possible.


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