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AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:16 am

Don't know if it was covered but a press release on Yahoo said that 4 -400s would become combis and 1 -400 would become a full freighter for the Alaska flying.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:20 am

Are these planes that Alaska already owns?

I was hoping they'd be -400s  Big grin
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searpqx
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:31 am

Here's the link: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040714/sfw109_1.html

And yes, they are currently in the fleet. The release says that now they will look at how to replace the capcity lost by converting the -400s. It will be interesting to see how the route/schedule these new planes. I still think this will end up meaning an overall drop in cargo capacity. Certain times of the year these planes operate all pallet just to carry fish, now they won't have that option.

I'm sure this is a relief to the towns/villages that were affected by this.

Duane
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
dutchjet
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:11 am

Interesting and sensible......look for AS to order additonal 737NGs in the near future to replace the 734s to be converted.

Note that the 734 combi will be have a fixed partition......the 732s had flexible partitions that allowed several combinations of freight and passengers, but due to the FAA, this cannot be done with the 734s. The all-cargo 734 is also interesting - will this be the first 734 operated in full-freigher configuration? I bet FedEx is watching this situation closely.
 
L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:15 am

Well, that was the rumor.

Look for that straight freighter to run almost exclusively between ANC-SEA.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
737-990
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:16 am

Looks like we're digging a hole to fill a hole. The question now is what replaces the 5 737-400s in the fleet? Hopefully more 737-800s.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
RyDawg82
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:36 am

Someone mentioned a loss of cargo capacity...Just my two cents, but with the fixed position, all a/c will have 4 pallet positions. AS Currently never runs a 1 or 4 pallet configured bird (sure this may be the actual number of igloos loaded but not the actual configuration). In freighter configuration a max of 6 igloos can be loaded, so yes they will be down 2 positions, but don't forget the bellys, they can turn into a rampers nightmare if needed. Pit 3 can hold about 4500 lbs and pit 4 can haul aprox 6000 lbs (very rough figures). These quantities are just about identical to what would be loaded in each respective igloo upstairs. All the way around these birds will be able to do a very good job at meeting Alaska Cargo demands.

Also yes look for the fixed freighter running the nightly ANC-JNU-SEA freighter, while daytime making freighter extras to OTZ/ADQ/AKN etc...

Ryan
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
scottysair
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:46 am

It looking like to get rid of them with 732 aircraft and will replace them more new aircraft anytime soon?
 
as739x
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:48 am

737-990 and Dutchjet,a order will be placed for more of the 738 at some point. The biggest hold up at this time in not the economy, but the pilot contract. Once ratified then we will order more -800's. The company has been hanging that out in front of the pilots for a few weeks now from what I have heard. The first 2 -400's to go were planned for this year but that was called back. A/C N754AS (Spirit of Alaska and 400 #1) and N755AS were scheduled for the desert or sold this year.

This is very smart of Alaska for another good reason. When you have owned the planes already, you have their track record. We can keep the 400's that have been the most maintance free. I heard about all this 3 days ago, but couldn't confirm it. I think we made a smart move.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:01 pm

Here's the press release:

Contact: Lou Cancelmi -or- Sam Sperry
206-392-5170 206-392-5038

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 14, 2004

ALASKA AIRLINES TO RETROFIT 737-400 AIRCRAFT TO PROVIDE BETTER PASSENGER AND CARGO SERVICE TO THE STATE OF ALASKA

SEATTLE—Alaska Airlines today reaffirmed its commitment to serving the cargo and passenger needs of the state of Alaska by inking a $15 million contract to retrofit five of its 737-400 aircraft to carry cargo and passengers.

“We’ve been looking for a replacement for our 737-200s for some time now,” said George Bagley, Alaska’s executive vice president of operations. “Retrofitting our existing, newer 737-400s makes sense from a cost standpoint and will actually increase our freight and passenger capacity in Alaska.”

Four of the carrier’s 737-400s will be converted to a fixed 70 passenger/four pallet configuration. One aircraft will be retrofitted to full cargo configuration. Once completed, the retrofitted aircraft will replace the airline’s retiring 737-200 fleet—long the workhorse of the carrier’s unique passenger and cargo operations to rural communities in Alaska. In addition, the airline is currently weighing several options to replace the capacity of the five 737-400s that will be converted.

The conversions of the 737-400s will result in an upgrade of service, as the converted aircraft will carry more passengers and cargo. Bagley noted that the 737-400s are half the age of the carrier’s 737-200s, thus less costly to maintain. Additionally the -400s consume about 30 percent less fuel and already are equipped with Alaska’s state-of-the-art RNP flight guidance technology, which allows pilots to precisely guide aircraft during periods of low visibility.

The retrofitting work, to begin in April 2005 for completion in early 2007, will be coordinated by InterContinental Aircraft Services (ICAS) of Taiwan for a team including Flight Structures Inc., Marysville, Washington, a unit of B/E Aerospace, Inc., and the Boeing Company. Flight Structures will do the engineering work. Boeing will provide post-conversion engineering support.

Alaska Airlines and sister carrier Horizon Air serve more than 80 cities in Alaska, the Lower 48, Canada and Mexico. For more news and information, visit the Alaska Airlines Newsroom on the Internet at [ http://newsroom.alaskaair.com ]http://newsroom.alaskaair.com.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:22 pm

The only problem that I see with converting the 734 to 734C is convencing the F.A.A. for certification. Its gonna be a long phase for AS. We all know how the F.A.A. feels about certifying new combi aircraft. If AS cant get certification then I bet that AS will probably go for a cargo only aircraft.

...but don't forget the bellys, they can turn into a rampers nightmare if needed. Pit 3 can hold about 4500 lbs and pit 4 can haul aprox 6000 lbs (very rough figures).

Huh?!? This isnt an M80. The 732C has TWO cargo pits #1 and #2. And the main cabin is capable of holding 7 pallets, not only 6, regardless of whats on them, seats or igloos.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:31 pm

Although I found the MD-80 harder to load, due to the still design, the lower ceiling and the plastic floor in the aft compartment, I will agree that pit four is one lONG ASS PIT!!!!


Nicest aircraft pits for loading I have ever been in where the rear ones in the B727-100 that Reeve Aleutian flew. 2nd best was the one right next to the trailing edge of the wing on the IL-62.

And lets get the terminology straight. From what I remember the 727-200QC had 2 cargo compartments divided into three pits each, numbered 1 to 6 front to back. ditto for the rest of the fleet. RV on the other had only numbered their bellies 1 to 4.
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ha763
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:41 pm

I don't see much problem convincing the FAA to certify the aircraft. This is exactly what the FAA wanted in a combi: a solid bulkhead that is in one fixed position.

Actually I can see the combi -400s being exactly like the Navy's C-40s. The C-40 can be used in all pax, all cargo, or combi (3 pallets, 70 pax). With Boeing doing the engineering work, it kind of makes sense to use the same kind of system being used in the C-40 and give AS the flexibility.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:01 pm

Actually I can see the combi -400s being exactly like the Navy's C-40s. The C-40 can be used in all pax, all cargo, or combi (3 pallets, 70 pax).

The C-40 is a military aircraft...it does not need F.A.A. certification for a combi aircraft. The F.A.A. does not oversee safety/maintenance on military aircraft, they dont have any powers over those aircraft.
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L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:24 pm

Exactly. With the exception of some engineering data, the C-40 is not going to be used as a plan for any combi conversion.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ha763
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:21 pm

The C-40 has a fixed bulkhead. That's why its combi configuration is fixed at 3 pallets and 70 pax. So, the FAA doesn't cover military aircraft, but this is what the FAA wants in new combis-a fixed bulkhead.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:27 pm

a cargo fixed bulkhead wont be classified as a combi anyway. It would then be strictly used as a cargo aircraft and never carry pax. Now the F.A.A. would definately certify that, but not as a combi configured aircraft.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
RyDawg82
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:25 pm

...but don't forget the bellys, they can turn into a rampers nightmare if needed. Pit 3 can hold about 4500 lbs and pit 4 can haul aprox 6000 lbs (very rough figures).

Huh?!? This isnt an M80. The 732C has TWO cargo pits #1 and #2. And the main cabin is capable of holding 7 pallets, not only 6, regardless of whats on them, seats or igloos.


As far as the main belly on any Alaska 737 (-200 -400 -700 -900) they have six cargo pits. 3 Pits are forward, 3 pits are aft. I only mentioned pits 3 and 4 as they are the largest. On the -400s they are capable of carrying just about the amount typically loaded in an Igloo thus not being too much of a loss on cargo capacity. The other pits can be loaded as well, I was just referencing the larger pits. Also I'm not sure if AS has reconfigured their combis since your days there, however there are only 6 pallet positions upstairs. AS can operate them in All seats (111 seats), 2 pallet (72 seats), 3 pallet (56 seats), 5 pallet (26 seats), or freighter (6 pallet) at no time has the main deck of a AS 73M had 7 pallets to my knowledge.

Also I'm not sure how much of a fit the FAA will throw with these birds. We are talking a fixed bulkhead, not a quick change. As I understand, the FAA didn't want to certify a movable bulkhead, thus AS has picked a fixed configuration that is sure to be a winner. One thing AS does is their homework, I highly doubt they would have waited almost 2 years to announce a 73M replacement if the FAA wasn't going to ok it.

-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:41 pm

Nope, that is the way I remember.

6 positions topside, and three pits per belly.

The only dumb thing that AS did was number the topside positions 1-6.

Reeve was smarter and id'd them with letters.

Less confusion with new hires that way.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
RyDawg82
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:55 pm

Thanks L-188...Was getting a little confused at the thought of 7 pallets upstairs, of course anything is possible before my time there I guess.....
-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:11 pm

This is just a cosmetic wish, but I hope that the company
decides to go with a unique paint scheme for the converted
-400s. At one point there was a plan to paint one of the -400s
like a Copper River salmon.....
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:13 pm

Yeah, AirframeAS was 1 over.

Somewhere I still have the configuration card from 1994 when I was ramping in ANC,

Oh, just for comparison, a Combi 727-22C of Reeve carried 7 topside in all cargo configuration. N753AS, Alaska airlines last 727 period, which was a 727-100C was flow as an 8 pallet aircraft. The lost space on the RV aircraft was due to the galley in the RV aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
greasespot
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:00 pm

It is not the FAA that is the problem. There is no rule that says no combi's as far as I know. It is a rule concerning fire and smoke. The cargo area has to be completely sealed and not allow any smoke to get into the cockpit or pax area. You also have to be able to hold the extinguishing agent in the cargo area for 1 hour I believe. On large aircraft this is almost impossible. Especially when you are moving the divider and seats. There are still the Bins and PSU's that are a problem to deal with. If you can solve that cheaply and easily then you could get certification because the only thing holding up certification is meeting the class c fire containment( I think it is class c)

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
RyDawg82
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:56 pm

I like HikesWithEye's idea...Lets bring out the real Salmon Thirty Sevens  Smile
-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:18 am

All C-40's (C-40A's, B's and C's) meet FAA requirements...the A's and B's have been certified.
 
ScottB
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:23 pm

I'm curious as to what Alaska is going to do about the fact that the 734's engines hang considerably lower than the 732's, considering that they operate in and out of some fairly marginal airfields (in terms of runway condition and the likelihood of ingestion of debris).
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:32 pm

I'm pretty sure that the airfields that AS flies to all have paved runways.. The likelihood of ingesting something into the engines are just as great as any other field..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:56 pm

MD11Luxurylinr.....

Red Dog isn't.


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I had to check on Unalakleet, they are still gravel and Markair used to go in there but I didn't remember it it was an AS stop....it apparently isnt.

I don't know what they are going to do about that, but since it is a charter flight, I would suspect that it is going to go away.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
wilax
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:10 pm

Is Alaska ordering -800's?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:37 pm

As far as the main belly on any Alaska 737 (-200 -400 -700 -900) they have six cargo pits. 3 Pits are forward, 3 pits are aft. I only mentioned pits 3 and 4 as they are the largest.

Sorry but I count TWO cargo pit doors......so wheres pits 3-6?? I guess Im not familiar with ramp operations, but in MX operations we call them pit 1 and pit 2. When we take the panels off then we use station numbers to find what where we need to work, etc etc.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
L-188
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:41 pm

Ok Airframe here goes....

There are two belly compartments on the 737, one forward and one aft of the wing.

Open the door to the compartment and stand in the opening.

That compartment is seperated into three pits, mainly for W/B reasons. One to the right of the door, one straight in front of you and one to the left of the door, seperated by nets.

Those pits, at least at Alaska number 6 and and numbered 1 to 6 from front to rear.


So when you pick up a load sheet from dispatch, it will list how many pounds of bags/cargo/Mail and for what destination is in what pit.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AS To Replace 732s With 734s...

Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:21 pm

Ok Ok Ok, I get it, L-188. I was never in the ramp department so you guys do things differently than how we did it in the MX department. Thanks for the explaination. Like I said, two different departments doing two different things in the same area. Im sure you would agree.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.