B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

Airlines Increasing Winter Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:17 am

Northwest Airlines, El Al and other airlines will be increasing service to Mumbai over the winter schedule this year.

Northwest will introduce a second daily flight between Amsterdam and Mumbai starting on November 1. The flight will originate in Minneapolis and will be operated by a DC-10 with a 330am arrival and 7am departure from Mumbai.

El Al will introduce a third weekly flight between Tel Aviv and Mumbai from October 31. All flights will operate with Boeing 767-200s.

Royal Jordanian will introduce a third weekly flight between Amman and Mumbai from November 3. This flight will be in addition to their existing twice weekly services that continue to Kolkota.

Alitalia will increase service between Milan and Mumbai to daily from November 2 using Boeing 767-300s.

Air Mauritius will increase service between Mauritius and Mumbai to six weekly from November 17 using Boeing 767-200s.


Other previously announced increases in service for the winter schedule.

Air France will increase service between Paris and Mumbai to daily from October 31 using Airbus 340s.

Aeroflot will increase service between Moscow and Mumbai to daily from November 1 using Tupolev Tu-214s.

Qantas will re-introduce service to Mumbai nonstop from Sydney thrice weekly using Boeing 747-300s from September 5.



[Edited 2004-08-07 00:02:07]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:37 pm

Thanks for the update and it will be good service to BOM.
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:32 pm

Surprised no Delta increase this time? Maybe it just is not announced yet.

With NW flying twice a fly you think I could get a seat for the day I want, but no, both DC-10's are fully booked. Why couldn't you bring in a 742 NW?

Good to see the increase in service. Can we expect more airlines to do this?

SR 103

 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:31 pm

Are these increases the result of the open skies policies over the winter season? I know they are the reason why Lufthansa is offering extra services to BLR over the winter. What are the exact mechanisms of this limited open skies policy? Does it work for all Indian airports or are there places that are excluded?

As for NW, didn't they fly in a B744 at a certain point in time? Any reason for the capacity reduction to DC10 but frequency increase with 2 aircraft operating?

 
Jano
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:26 pm

As for NW, didn't they fly in a B744 at a certain point in time? Any reason for the capacity reduction to DC10 but frequency increase with 2 aircraft operating?

Because they have no B744 flying transat service regurarly. So, they fly to BOM with DC10s that serve MSP, maybe MEM or BOS (DTW is served by A333).

My guess is they switch to A333 on AMS-BOM when they have more of then flying transat flights.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:54 pm

Are these increases the result of the open skies policies over the winter season

In some cases yes, but in others no.

Northwest's service for example doesn't require the open-skies policy to operate - they have the flexibility under the India-US bilateral to add service anytime they want, but they chose to add it from November 1 to February 28 since that represents the peak travel period.

El Al's flights will be a permanent schedule addition (that has been in the works for over a year now but was held up due to shortage of 767s), and it appears so far that Royal Jordanian's new service will also be permanent.

Air France has realigned their capacity based on some minor modifications to the India-France bilateral earlier this year, so their schedule change is also permanent (they have also upgraded DEL permanently to a 744 and discontinued codeshare on Delta metal to BOM).

Alitalia has always operated daily winter and 6x summer to India, a quirk of theirs that they run to many destinations.

Air Mauritius is the only one so far that appears to be only a seasonal addition due to the open skies period, but I'm not familiar with the India-Mauritius bilateral so I don't know the flexibility they may have in the first place.

What are the exact mechanisms of this limited open skies policy? Does it work for all Indian airports or are there places that are excluded?

Basically it allows any airlines already authorized to operate to a specific gateway in India permission to operate as much capacity as it wants on that route during the designated open skies period without regard to bilaterally negotiated limits on capacity.

All additional services must be subject to the same commercial conditions as the existing services (eg. if codesharing with AI/IC on the existing flights must also codeshare on the additional flights).

It does not permit carriers not already authorized to serve India to commence service in the market and does not permit carriers to serve new gateways solely for the duration of this period.

As for NW, didn't they fly in a B744 at a certain point in time? Any reason for the capacity reduction to DC10 but frequency increase with 2 aircraft operating?

NW ran a 744 on the India route until end-February 2003. I actually flew on their last 744 into Mumbai around the 26th or so. At that time it was downgraded to a D10 because the 744s were needed to cover CRAF callups due to Iraq mobilisation. Following that, the Iraq war, SARS and the accelerated disposal of 742s meant that there simply wasn't any additional 744 lift to spare for BOM operations. Since the A330 with PW engines is not yet route certified for terrain clearance on parts of the BOM route, the D10 is the only option if they don't want to incur the costs and hassles of certification and/or proving flights.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:58 pm

The Northwest 744 route was NW flight 68 out of DTW-AMS-BOM
 
zizou
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:31 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:38 pm

Qantas introductory fares to Mumbai are going dirt cheap. I recently saw for something around $1000 AUD Qantas was throwing in 4 nights accomodation as well as the flight!!

I heard tickets sales were doing very well.
 
DTWINTLFLYER
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:24 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:28 am

Yes this should remain a DC10 route for some time. The days of the 744 in and out of BOM for NW are probably over. The loads during the winter are always full full full. That said, during the off peak travel season we can have a near full plane too, but there are usually open seats. The 744 was great on the route because more cargo $$$$ and a newer plane (obviously easier to work the DC-10, but I prefer the 744) Too bad we have not returned to DEL.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:41 am

I must say, at least in the winter, Skyteam and friends have managed to set up quite a nice operation in BOM:

Skyteam:
* DL 14 x weekly (possibly)
* AF 07 x weekly
* KE 04 x weekly
* AZ 07 x weekly

"Friends":
* NW 14 x weekly
* SU 07 x weekly
* MH 05 x weekly
* KQ 07 x weekly

If you add AI's daily flights to CDG, that brings the total to 4 x daily flights BOM-CDG. I think this is possibly the most frequently served longhaul out of BOM. Who would have thought?

[Edited 2004-07-17 00:14:28]
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:07 am

Isn't it strange how alliances end up picking one city over another to focus on in a third country? I don't know if its deliberate or not, but Skyteam definitely have a much bigger presence in BOM over DEL, whilst Star seem to prefer DEL. Oneworld are almost split even between the two, though BOM does have a slight lead.
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:26 am

If you add AI's daily flights to CDG, that brings the total to 4 x daily flights BOM-CDG. I think this is possibly the most frequently served longhaul out of BOM. Who would have thought?

Delta's second service to BOM this winter will operate via Frankfurt.

That makes Frankfurt the most frequently served longhaul from BOM, but just by a nose.

Paris CDG : 7x AI, 7x DL, 7x AF
Frankfurt : 8x AI, 7x DL, 7x LH
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:36 am

with a 330am arrival
Wow, that seems a bit awkward, and a bit jetBlue-ish.  Laugh out loud

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
22right
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 2:41 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:56 am

SafetyDude wrote:

with a 330am arrival
Wow, that seems a bit awkward, and a bit jetBlue-ish


Well actually most of the international arrivals into BOM (at least from Europe) come in during that hellish zone between midnight and 3:00 AM.

This 3:30 AM scheduled arrival may be the worst by far, I think. Used to be that the last European arrival was usually LH (sometime around 2:00 AM when I last flew them).



"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:59 am

Wow, that seems a bit awkward

They were lucky to get the slot for the 330am arrival actually. The NAC chart shows spare terminal capacity for only 1 arrival between 1230am and 330am on multiple days for the winter schedule. Delta also squeaked in with the 10pm arrival and the 1201am departure. Arrival capacity is maxed out till 959pm and departures till 1159pm on some days of the week.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:05 am

Used to be that the last European arrival was usually LH (sometime around 2:00 AM when I last flew them).

Air India's LA-Frankfurt flight will be coming in at 445am this winter schedule and Aeroflots's flights come in at 450am - although arguably that is more "early morning" than "late night" and perfect to hit the 7am bank of domestic connections.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
22right
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 2:41 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:14 am

Air India's LA-Frankfurt flight will be coming in at 445am this winter schedule and Aeroflots's flights come in at 450am - although arguably that is more "early morning" than "late night" and perfect to hit the 7am bank of domestic connections.

The 4:45 AM arrival actually seems kinda nice. It's broad daylight by the time you get home (in Mumbai) and can be up and about. Rather than try to sleep when you climb into bed around 3 or 4 AM, and worsen your jet-lag.

I think that may be one big reason I'll probably try AI the next time I fly to BOM from ORD. Their arrival and departure times at BOM seem to the most suited for "normal" people.  Wink/being sarcastic  Wink/being sarcastic Provided, of course, that things operate on-time (which can be problematic during winter months).
"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:16 am




So Delta is going double daily this winter to BOM? Have they looked into serving DEL? also, why Frankfurt this time and not CDG for their second service. With the same number of daily flights between BOM and Frankfurt, why did they not stick to their familiar turf at CDG?

cheers


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:52 am

Well actually most of the international arrivals into BOM (at least from Europe) come in during that hellish zone between midnight and 3:00 AM.
I did not know about the terminal capacity, but, still, those times are rather insane.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:59 am

With the same number of daily flights between BOM and Frankfurt, why did they not stick to their familiar turf at CDG?

Because ADP has put a freeze on new slots at CDG for the Winter 2004 season following the terminal collapse. Fraport on the other hand has spare capacity at Terminal 2 and the ability to acquire/realign slots for the BOM operation.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:15 pm

Provided, of course, that things operate on-time (which can be problematic during winter months).

22right... As long as you steer clear of Delhi, you'll be fine.

Have they looked into serving DEL

I think this has something to do with the northern route they would have to take. I'm probably talking out of my ass, but I remember something about American carriers not being allowed to overfly Afghanistan or Iran or something. I don't know if this restriction is still in force. Or if it ever was. Then again, had rather an "interesting" night last night. Maybe I'm just hallucinating!
Still, in a way it makes sense to serve one destination with enough capacity to meet demand, than do two with inadequate capacity.
Anyway, they can't serve DEL only in the winter and abandon it after February. Or does this provision not apply to NW, since their increased services aren't necessarily related to winter open skies.
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:59 pm

I remember something about American carriers not being allowed to overfly Afghanistan or Iran or something

Absolutely correct. Immediately after September 11, the US FAA instituted a ban on US carriers overflight of Afghanistan. That made it unfeasible for Northwest to continue operating their flights to Delhi economically and they dropped those in favor of consolidation with KLM on the India route (NW to BOM/KL to DEL).

Anyway, they can't serve DEL only in the winter and abandon it after February. Or does this provision not apply to NW, since their increased services aren't necessarily related to winter open skies.

Thats a very good question that I don't know the answer to. My guess would be that we are now going into some of the more obscure US-India bilateral provisions that require that "any increase in frequency for United States airlines will be required to be justified primarily for the provision of capacity needed on account of the increase in the amount of the traffic originating in the United States and destined for India and vice versa... and the increase in capacity provided for such traffic will not be utilized for an amount of traffic betwen India and third countries and vice versa which is unreasonable".

This was the provision that shot down UA's double-daily operations at Delhi during the ill-fated RTW mk II since it essentially placed a capacity constraint on UA's ability to uplift fifth freedom traffic ex-Delhi.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:34 pm

B747-438:

I have been keeping quiet lately because of the "lack" of posts that are factual and non-hate-filled. As always you are an asset to this board. Thanks for doing this thread.

On a funny note. I can't wait to see June from Minnesota working these trips. Anyone who flies for NW or flies NW will understand. Don't ya know?

Safe Flying to All  Smile

As far as the 330 going to BOM. A pilot did mention something about the spring, when NW goes back to just one AMS departure. While rumor only, I would love it. I think the Indian customer loves the airplane. At least they do from AMS to DTW on flight 39 after a night on a DC10 from BOM.
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:22 am

Damn! I wasn't hallucinating!
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:03 pm

How come, most of the Int'l traffic to and from India is concentrated on the night time?

Does anybody know how come El Al is flying to BOM and not to DEL? I know they used to fly to DEL, several years ago, but I can't remember why they changed it.
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:41 am

South African Airways will be increasing BOM to daily service effective February 15. The flight will operate with a A340-200.

B747-437B should have written that, but as he is banned yet again, it is not possible.

SR 103
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: NW, LY, Others Increasing Service To BOM

Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:01 am

Malaysian will be increasing their service to Mumbai to daily effective October 31. The flight will operate with Airbus 330-300 or Boeing 777-200 on different days of the week.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, agrflyer, andrej, Baidu [Spider], BreninTW, Google Adsense [Bot], jetblastdubai, KarelXWB, LA704, LazarosK, mozart, NolaMD88fan, sirtoby, steman, TP777 and 220 guests