ZSSNC
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:33 am

SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:16 am

Effective 16th February 2005 SAA will start serving AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA/CPT daily using the A340-600. The service will be year round.

Since both flights (AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA/JNB and AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA/CPT) are nightflights in both directions consequently 4 A340-600s will be utilized on the AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA routes from that point on which brings me to my question: Which route will the A340-600 be axed from? With just 7 A340-600s in the fleet, either HKG or ATL will have to be axed equipment wise.

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24519
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:19 am

They probably won't be flying to ATL by February 2005 with the Delta deal ending. I guess its replacement will use a 343.
a.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:57 am

Hey MAH:

Are you sure about SA will make deal is end with DL? It will make leaving from SA - Georgia">ATL for next year in early 2005.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:35 am

Has the route proven to be such a success or is this pure retaliation to Lufthansa's announcement of daily non-stop A343 service on the route, which in itself was answer to SAA's planned thrice weekly A342 service, that had already been upgraded to A346. How's the relationship between the two airlines?

 
ZSSNC
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:33 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:03 pm

HB-IWC,

no, this is not a retaliation to LH's announcement to introduce a daily nonstop service. SAA had planned this all along. Also, it was quite logical that SAA would do it. With just three weekly services versus seven of your competitor you can only lose. And either you win or you lose. And I'm pretty sure that SAA is determined to win.

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
fraT
Posts: 992
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:37 pm

Now that SA is in the Star Alliance why should they continue to fly to a Skyteam hub?
But LH/SA will have to fill quite a lot of seats the upcoming (European) winter. Good times for non-revers....
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:40 pm

FraT, you could just as well apply that logic to the Oneworld-hub HKG...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ZSSNC
Topic Author
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:33 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:35 pm

FraT,

SAA is not in Star Alliance yet! However, I agree with you about what you said about CDG. I personally think that if CDG cannot support a daily flight it will be axed.

Frank, HKG is something different. SAA made it a precondition for joining Star Alliance that it would be able to keep the current codeshare agreements with CX and QF.

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:56 pm

ZSSNC

Yet Jaan Albrecht, from Star Alliance, made it clear that SA has to relinquish it's codeshare agreements with QF and CX..... I still don't get it. QF can codeshare with OZ on the SYD-INC-SYD route. Maybe it's because OZ is the operating carrier?!

http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/2004/06/06/business/companies/comp10.asp

Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:32 pm

ZSSNC

Another article appeared in the Business Day yesterday, and it appears as if SAA will be able to retain the QF & CX codeshare partnerships!!!?

http://www.businessday.co.za/bday/content/direct/1,3523,1660308-6078-0,00.html

Looks like we will have to wait and see...

Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
shankly
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:54 pm

FraT, not sure I agree

I'm flying LHR-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-CPT with LH (the last leg now direct and not via Joberg!) in Dec/Jan and most flights are sold out already.

There is clearly scope for some extra capacity here.
L1011 - P F M
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:23 am

I heard SAA was discontinuing ATL and moving to DC. Can anyone confirm that?
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
andz
Posts: 7624
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:47 am

Venezuela747

This is the plan IF the Star Alliance membership goes through.

South Africa has to be the hottest destination for German tourists right now, never mind the close business links the two countries have. I have flown between SA and Germany many times non-rev and it can be a bitch to get a seat, in summer season here you hear more German than English in Cape Town! I remember when the SA routing was AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-JNB-CPT and most of the German pax stayed on in JNB so this makes absolute sense. Neither SA nor LH will have any trouble filling the seats.

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:56 am

@Andz

why do you type IF?

Do you see any serious problems for their star membership?

It was anonymously approved by all members, so I couldn't see any problems for them to be integrated in star like every other airline did before after 6-12 months.
 
andz
Posts: 7624
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:57 am

It has to be approved by some Government body here as well.

[Edited 2004-07-18 18:59:08]
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
fraT
Posts: 992
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:00 am

Leskova,

HKG and SA - Georgia">ATL are hard to compare. HKG has a lot of O/D traffic whereas SA - Georgia">ATL is mostly connex travel. It is not important if SA's passenger arrive in SA - Georgia">ATL or SA - Virginia">IAD, as long as they have the right codeshare partner. And it looks like that will be UA and US in the near future.

You guys are right that both LH and SA will fill their seats in the (European)winter season. But will they continue to have all these seats next summer? It seams that North America is becoming really popular again with Germans after the dismal summer 2003. South Africa was the big winner last year when people were afraid to fly to North America because of SARS and the Iraq war.
 
andz
Posts: 7624
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:02 am

Does anyone know what the glitch is when you type F R A and it gives you AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:26 am

FraT, you're right about Atlanta being much more an airport used for connections than Hong Kong is, although I doubt that CX's connections hurt SAA in Asia...

But is Hong Kong to South Africa really that much of an O/D market? I was always under the impression that HKG was mainly on SAA's route map because of business connections, not because of tourist travel.

As for filling the seats between Frankfurt and South Africa - even if the demand does go down a bit, which remains to be seen, I doubt that LH and SA will really have trouble filling the seats: while working for a tour operator sending tourists from Germany to South Africa we at some point almost even stopped checking SA and LH, because we knew they'd be fully booked - and that sometimes included low seasons: the result was that we sent passengers through CDG, LHR, ZRH and AMS - whenever something was available on those routes (which, often enough, was as problematic as the routes from Frankfurt): only when SAA gave us permission to use the ZRH and CDG flights (and an occasional authorisation to put someone on an LHR fligh - later on we got rates that included LHR as well) did we actually start actively checking them again, because those routes usually had some capacities left while Frankfurt was already hopelessly overbooked.


Andz, the glitch is in the a.net database - unfortunately, the site creates a recursive acronym tag in the case of Frankfurt (and a few other airports that are also used as "Airbase" - the word Airbase is abbreviated as "AB", which the programming behind a.net then tries to interpret as the 2-letter-code for Air Berlin)... which, unfortunately, creates that unreadable output.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
SAA201
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 2:37 am

RE: SAA Goes Daily On FRA/CPT With A340-600

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:15 pm

To half answer the original question in this topic, I notice that when SAA starts the initial service with A346's from FACT-EDDF the aircraft will be taken from the CDG route. A342's will therefore serve JNB-CDG from 5 Oct.

Perhaps the increase to daily service of SA262 follows the delivery of the airline's 8th A340-600????

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