cumulonimbus
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Air Tran And BWI

Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:52 am


While I am still on the topic of BWI, How is AirTran doing There? Do they have Plans for even more Expansion at BWI? Just Curious because I feel that AirTran and WN have done alot for my local airport.

Thanx

Mike
 
srbmod
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:16 am

A good bit of FL's growth in the next few years will probably be out of BWI, as ATL is nearing max capacity unless AirTran tweaks their ATL ops. I can definitely see BWI getting LAS, LAX, and SFO flights some time next year, and quite possibly service to the new cities FL has planned in the next year or so. If Southwest does scale back their BWI ops in favor of PHL, look to see AirTran up service on those routes that WN transfer to PHL. The only cities FL and WN compete on currently out of BWI are the following:

BWI-MCO
BWI-FLL
BWI-TPA

You can also argue BWI-BOS on FL competes with BWI-MHT and BWI-PVD on WN.

Even if WN doesn't scale back @ BWI, I could see FL entering on these routes that WN currently fly:

BWI-MDW
BWI-RDU
BWI-BUF
BWI-MCI
BWI-MSY
BWI-LAS
BWI-LAX

AirTran's not trying to start a battle against Southwest, as nobody's been able to win a battle against them. But Southwest does look like things may not be going their way like they're used to. On some routes, they could be vulnerable, especially if someone like AirTran or JetBlue starts on the route. Southwest may have to tweak their business model to stay relevant in today's LCC market.
 
travatl
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:32 pm

I was on a layover in BWI last week, and while my crew was waiting on the crew van in front of the AirTran ticket counters, I noticed that the America West ticket counter had been vacated (the large counter adjacent to AirTran's). I asked one of our agents where they had gone. He stated that we were taking that entire ticket counter, basically doubling the size of ticket counter space we have there. Hmmmmmmm.

Travis
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:24 am

I wonder how they are doing on there flights to the Bahamas from BWI.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:53 am

Wow...Travis, the last time I was BWI (flying FL to ROC in mid-May), America West was still at that counter. I suppose they've moved to some of those acres of still-vacant former US Airways counters.

I've long thought BWI still has decent potential for AirTran to grow *around* Southwest. Srbmod, AirTran has specifially avoided competing directly with Southwest on any BWI route except those to the really dense Florida markets that support both easily. We won't be seeing AirTran run BWI-BUF or BWI-RDU, for instance. The density isn't there to support both.

Here are what I think are the most promising WN-free AirTran route possibilities from BWI:

GSO--for GSOflyer and all those who don't want to drive to RDU!  Smile
MSP--AirTran makes their living scrapping it up with Delta and AA, so they're not likely to be afraid of Big Red. Also, the DC area has had no nonstop LCC service to Minnesota since Sun Country.
MEM--FL is holding their own to ATL fine there, so the nation's 4th largest metro area should support a couple of dailies to MEM.
FNT--Wouldn't compete directly with Spirit's new DTW-DCA, and offers north metro Detroiters another option.
CAK--They're up to 11 dailies there and have a strong customer base; a couple of dailies wouldn't compete directly with WN CLE-BWI and should do fine.
LAX and SFO--The sheer density of that route should support one or two dailies on each. Also doesn't compete directly with WN BWI-OAK.
PIT--Although PIT is on Independence Air's list, PIT could probably easily support a couple of FL dailies to BWI, bracketing the DCA area to the East. The PA Turnpike is a *very* crappy road and a lot of people would welcome not having to drive it. I-68 is better but its still the mountains. :P

Avoid:
DEN. UA and F9 both have loyal FF bases there and connecting hubs, FL probably would have a tough time breaking in.
HOU--direct competition with Southwest. Maybe the market could support both; our Texans would have to give an assessment. But I'd be wary.

Jim


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DAYGS
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:57 am

Anybody know how the BWI-DAY route is doing for them?
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:24 am

WN doesn't fly nonstop OAK-BWI on a daily basis...unless something has changed. However, WN will start up OAK-PHL on 10/31.

Does anyone think Air Tran will fly to secondary west coast markets like SAN, SNA, SJC, OAK, etc. in the near future?
 
elwood64151
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:31 am

Actually, I see somewhat different ops for FL @ BWI.

I can see FL operating from BWI to:

MKE
MSP
BMI
CAK
PIT
GSO
PHF
LGA
FNT
MYR
EWR
SFO
LAX
LAS
DEN

and new service to:

BDL
SEA
SLC
PHX
SAN

as service is added to those cities in the not-to-distant future (IMHO).

I don't see near-future service to MEM, MCI, HOU, MSY, GPT, PNS (except maybe seasonally), or SAV, simply because BWI isn't really a competitive cut-off from having to fly down to ATL from any other city in FL's system. I also don't see service to RDU or MDW unless the market absolutely demands it, simply because of the heavy competition they'd face from WN in those markets compared to the relative rewards. Then again... MDW might be able to support 3x or 4x daily FL...

Also, I expect a little more growth out of DFW before any MAJOR expansion from BWI, but I do think BWI expansion will come soon, probably next year.



Just my two cents.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:31 am

I've been working the Friday morning DAY-BWI flight all month, and it's been 90+ every week.

Also Jim - you're right HP did move down the road to the vacant US space.

Travis
 
Islandboy
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:46 am

I thought FL only operated to the Bahamas from Atlanta.
Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:49 pm

No, AirTran added BWI- FPO/Grand Bahama Island last year. One flight daily.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
BH
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:15 pm

As for BWI FL will be taking over the HP ticket counter. They also now have the whole baggage make-up room for their selves, which has a planned expansion in the near future. Also gate D-27 which is adjacent to our gate D-25 has been used by USairways for ever but recently their computers have been removed and our wallpaper for the podium has moved across the D-27 half of the gate so it looks as if that will be ours soon. As for the FPO flight it is strong Thurs-Mon, The Dayton route has really blossomed in the past month, ever since it has switch to 2 717's (1 was RJ until this month) it has just taken off. Who knows what FL will do from this point it is so hard to tell, they like to sneak up on the comp. and its been working for them so I think any major moves will be kept hush until the last minute.
 
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BNE
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:14 pm

Elwood64151 Where is Airtran going to find all those extra planes to fly all those new routes of yours. There is no point in Airtran trying to compete against Southwest. So don't see them starting new routes that compete directly with Southwest.

LAX and SFO, yes because of the amount of traffic, Airtran also have the option of business class and XM radio, should keep the passengers occupied on those 5 hour plus flights. Can' do any of these flights until more 737s come online.

MSP and DEN don't think it would be worth the hassle. Too much competition from UA & F9 out of DEN and NW is likely to retaliate on another route.

FNT-BWI for my mind too small 19 passengers a day 2002
CAK-BWI for my mind too small. 25 passengers a day 2002

MEM-BWI probably has the numbers for Airtran service. from 2002 there were 133 passengers per day, takes some market away from NW without going for MSP which they would defend.

GSO-BWI probably has the numbers and doesn't compete with WN.

PIT-BWI that road would have to be pretty bad for people not to drive instead of fly. They could use this route to test to see if they get a better reception from Pittsburg flyers. If the flight is successful then they could look again at PIT-PHL.











Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Air Tran And BWI

Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:43 am

FNT-BWI for my mind too small 19 passengers a day 2002
CAK-BWI for my mind too small. 25 passengers a day 2002


Those routes currently have no LCC competition, so the fares are probably excessively high. That's why the numbers are so small. LoneStarMike has shown us lots of similar numbers on routes that were tiny before Southwest entered and pumped them up to hundreds per day. AirTran has done the same on many routes; ROC-BWI probably wasn't even 100 with three daily US DH8's before FL entered.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)

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