KarlB737
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JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:18 pm

 
Cory6188
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:33 pm

This can't look good for NW - they have traditionally held a stronghold on their hubs for exclusive routes.
 
as739x
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:44 pm

What a useless article. Its says it safe to say you could see B6 fly DTW-FLL in the next few years. Well jeez, I can think off 100 routes they may fly in the next few years. Just my opinion!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
squirrel83
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:03 pm

one question WHAT THE HECK IS IN DTW?
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dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:20 pm

Squirrel83, only the third richest county in the country, Oakland county. Hate to tell you this but there is a state attached to Detrioit, with over 600 miles of shoreline.
 
electraBob
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:35 pm

That article was the first thing I read when I opened my Sunday combined Detroit News/Free Press. That article could have been in any newspaper serving any medium to large city in the US............

JetBlue sets sights on fill in the blank....take your pick...Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City etc.
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neilalp
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:38 pm

TONS of car stuff is in Detroit.

Being a Detroiter and faithful to Northwest through the years, howevere, it is nice to have another airline, but my guess it they wont even be here until 2008 when the new terminal north terminal opens up. And also like the article says “We aren’t even in initial talks with Detroit at this point,” said Burke. “It has been very informal conversations with Detroit.”

So give it some time to develop.
 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:49 pm

correction on the shoreline, over 3200 miles of greatlake shoreline and almost 10 million people ,over half living within an hours drive to DTW. makes for a strong pop. base to work from. always thought that we could use a strong second carrier into DTW
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:49 pm

This article tells you nothing. Like other have said it could be any major city with a airport. Must be a slow news week.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
SafetyDude
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:53 pm

I imagine that there could be a lot of business people traveling, as well as others who may want to fly something other than NW. Another possibility is that they could gain loyal Midwest Express customers who go to DTW via Milwaukee.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:57 pm

Just a FYI - DTW does have competition, both WN and Spirit offers flights from DTW. Also in MSP SunCountry has flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:04 pm

If Jet Blue is setting its sights on a DTW-FLL route, Northwest isnt the only one worried, I would assume Spirit would be just as well especially since that is between the two Spirit hubs.

As for a DTW-JFK route, that ends Northwest's pretty much monopoly on that route other than the once a day Comair CRJ.
 
B2443
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:09 pm

Why is it that everyone thinks bringing in a LCC to DTW will hurt NWA so much? I don't think it'll hardly do NWA a thing. Even if B6 started servicing DTW today, what kind of routes would it fly from DTW? Would they offer 10 daily DTW-JFK or 5 daily DTW-LongBeach? Unless B6 considers some kind of "hubbing" at DTW, it won't dent NWA a bit. In my opinion, fewer than 5 routes and fewer than 4 daily frequencies (from B6) would just be like another UA, AA, or even WN. My $0.02...
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:19 pm

B2443 is correct...NW has a HUB at DTW...a hub=connecting pax.... Now, if jetBlue was to launch a hub from DTW, there would be a problem!

Would jetBlue consider FNT or DET? The 190s should be able to land at DET and FNT has a lot of potential O&D to NY
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:20 pm

luv2fly, i hardly call less than 60 flights between WN and spirit any kind of competition for Northwest, which flys more than 500 flights a day. I think Wn missed the boat here as far as truely setting up a mini hub
. Problem is when the new terminal was built mcnamara gave away the farm to northwest,as they have the right of first refusal to any new airlines coming into DTW. when the davey replacment terminal is finished ,they cant even have a customs without nwa approval
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:23 pm

Dtw9

You might check your facts, yes NW can deny someone using there (NW) facilities, i.e. terminal. NW has no say over who is flying into DTW and using the Smith terminal.

Also the old international terminal is still in use and has customs available.

[Edited 2004-07-18 16:24:56]
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:29 pm

luv2fly you may want to check yours, its well known that once the berry is gone there can be no new customs built without nwa approval . also have you seen any new entrants latley , other than indy air, who were already here as ual express
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:36 pm

NW controls there terminal they can not dictate what happens at the other facilities. The airport itself is not owned by NW.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:42 pm

why to think i said that mcnamra gave away the farm? he gave them unheard of contol over what happens at that airport.
 
airtran737
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:04 am

If B6 shows their face in DTW, I hope NW does the same thing that DL did in ATL.
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Big777jet
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:11 am

Why don't JetBlue fly to Detriot City Airport (DET)?  Laugh out loud  Big thumbs up I bet A320 can handle on short runway landing and take off.

Big777jet

 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:21 am

wn tried DET as did Proair, to short of runway for full loads, which the city will never lengthen, really can't cause of the cemetery on the north end .also the area around city is a dump, wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
 
neilalp
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:36 am

Yeah DET is a joke they'd be better off trying FNT. Doesn't NW still have a say what happens at the airport. Like DTW9 said they(NW) were given tons of power if they put X amount of dollars into the airport and they did thus giving them way to much say about who does what at DTW.

As far as JetBlue coming to DTW, I don't think it'd hurt NW except for the few routes they both fly together.......this is business and new products/airlines come and go.

But as I said before don't except JetBlue until 2008 at the earliest.
 
scottysair
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:36 am

Stuart,

This is really good service to DTW and it is competitive with NW. It possible to make more service out of DTW.
 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:47 am

Neilalp, i agree with your time frame, as we in michigan know ,the stautes of limitations on contracts in this state is seven years. Given that, the agreements with nwa will be worthless around that time and the new terminal should be finished [if nwa lets it] ,we should see a host of new entrants then
 
rjpieces
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:14 am

From DTW I could only see them starting Florida flights; If they started transcon flights NW might respond a la Delta.
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HlywdCatft
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:41 am

I know this sounds really far out...

If Jet Blue and Oakland County could work something out like a joint project to make a new terminal at PTK, like where the current executive terminal is.

The only problem with PTK is that there is no freeway for a few miles, but it is within 15 miles of several hundred thousand people and many major businesses like K Mart, Daimler Chrysler etc.

We know that an Airbus A320 is capable of flying in and out of PTK because Daimler Chrysler does it a few times a week and that is overseas with an A319. An Emb 190 would have no problem.

I always thought that PTK would make a great alternate airport to DTW except for the fact its about a 5 mile drive to the nearest freeway.
 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:53 am

PTK sounds interesting, but with Airtran and NW already going out of FNT [only 25 miles away as the crow flies] they are already draining people from the pontiac area. plus if they ever built a new terminal at PTK NW would be there in a minute with service of their own
 
airtran737
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:23 am

Isn't PTK in a really really crappy part of Detroit?
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luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:32 am

PTK is Pontiac area, Oakland County. DET is Detroit City Airport and yes a crappy area of the city, to say the least.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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4everRC
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:02 am

I am in total agreement with AirTran737...

If B6 tries to stir up any significant trouble at DTW, NW will do to them what DL did to them at ATL -- the same thing that NW does to anyone that doesn't know their place.

It's not NW that people should worry about, it's B6. Just ask F9 and QQ, just to name a few.
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glideslope
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:02 am


By 2008 B6 will be in a much better position than the situation in ATL.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:57 am

I firmly believe that JetBlue could do very well in Detroit, offering great IFE and lower costs: two things that travelers do not get from Spirit OR the monopolizer Northwest! I think the leisure traveler would be turned on to JetBlue (and turn away from Spirit). Florida is a good possibility. I could also see JetBlue heading west out of DTW to Long Beach.

DTW is a good market in the Midwest - Detroit & its vast metro area have growth potential - just ripe for some "blue" to counter the "red"
 
flyguy1
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:31 am

The day B6 announces DTW service, is the day NW will announce 6 daily 757's from DTW to JFK
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
elwood64151
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:46 am

wn tried DET as did Proair, to short of runway for full loads, which the city will never lengthen, really can't cause of the cemetery on the north end .also the area around city is a dump, wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy

Could FL try DET, along with some regionals (Southeast, Indy, etc)?

but it is within 15 miles of several hundred thousand people and many major businesses like K Mart, Daimler Chrysler etc.

Let me get this straight: You want B6 to set its sights on two companies who's future is, shall we say, in serious doubt?

DTW is a good market in the Midwest - Detroit & its vast metro area have growth potential - just ripe for some "blue" to counter the "red"

Unfortunately, the GMSA around DTW hasn't seen any significant growth for some time. In the 1990s, is population grew by only 4.8%, and from 2000-2002, only 0.7%. Compare that to the relatively average Kansas City, which grew at 12.2% and 2.9%, respectively. In addition, personal income in Detriot, with its vast numbers manufacturing and corporate jobs, is comparable to Milwaukee. What does that mean? That there's a lot of *very poor* people in the metro...

Not really knocking DTW, but let's face it: The market isn't growing that quick. And if the market doesn't grow, it's difficult to expect people to buy into that market without some kind of incentive...



As for the article, nothing but fluff. Slow news day, I guess.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
AIR757200
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:27 am


lower costs: two things that travelers do not get from Spirit

Commenting on fares: are these not low enough?

DTW-LGA, $57 one way.
DTW-FLL, $62 one way.
DTW-RSW, $65 one way.

(NK SyberSpecials)

 
dtw9
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:45 am

ELWOOD, DET is no place for any airline to set up shop, it is a jungle down there, not safe during the day let alone at night. also there are not alot of "poor" people in the metro area. As I said before this area has the third richest county in the country, most homes selling between $300,000 and $800,000 don't think "poor" people are buying these
 
neilalp
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:04 am

Let me get this straight: You want B6 to set its sights on two companies who's future is, shall we say, in serious doubt?

I know as you said you weren't knocking DTW, but reguardless what happens to kmart and Daimler Chrysler. It would take a lot to knock Oakland County out of say the top 10 counties in America.

As the census states....

MICHIGAN http://www.censusscope.org/us/s26/chart_popl.html
1980 people-9,262,078 change from 1970:380,252 %:4.28%
1990 people-9,295,297 change from 1980:33,219 %:0.36%
2000 people-9,938,444 change from 1980:643,147 %:6.92%

DETROIT METRO http://www.censusscope.org/us/m2160/chart_popl.html
1980 people-4,387,783 change from 1970: -107,516 %:-2.39%
1990 people-4,266,654 change from 1980: -121,129 %:-2.76%
2000 people-4,441,551 change from 1990:174,897 %:4.10%

So I'm not sure where you pulled your numbers from, but I will agree and the area did take a downturn but it is back on the rise.
As far as Oakland county goes http://www.censusscope.org/us/s26/c125/chart_popl.html

Growth 1980-1990-2000 respectively.....11.45% 7.10% 10.20%

The best Kansas county I could find was Sedgwick County (Not being from the area I did some research and this seemed like one of the better counties)
Growth 1980-1990-2000 respectively.....4.52% 10.13% 12.19%

Good for them for having constant growth it is just to bad their population is 1/3 of Oakland counties.

Big citys have ups and downs I agree, but don't BASH when you DON'T know something.


 
MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:07 am

I could also see JetBlue heading west out of DTW to Long Beach.

They won't. They have no more slots at Long Beach.
a.
 
warszawa
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:46 am

While i know they're probably more interested in DTW, i seriously hope B6 would consider Flint-KFNT, which is about 60 miles or so north -- slightly northwest of DTW.

AirTran operates FNT-FLL and FNT-MCO, Northwest Operates FNT-MCO, FNT-TPA, and as far as i know, all flights are near 100% packed, so if B6 was to operate some kind of FNT-JFK even, or FNT-FLL, etc., im sure they'd get high load factors.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
ouboy79
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:13 pm

Just to throw something out there...

TOL has had JBLU in their sites for a bit and they are considering throwing the nearly $2 million in local and federal funds (if the $1 million fed match through the SCASDP comes through) to get them to JFK. This could offer a good opportunity as NW has shown little need to defend TOL like they are the Michigan cities. Yes, it isn't as close as FNT is to Oakland County...but it opens up other opportunities for JBLU from getting traffic from Indiana and points in Ohio.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:44 pm

Just the usual "filler" article to put in the newspaper on a slow day.

1) Yeah, B6 may show up someday, in DTW, or FNT, in that order. Won't have too much an impact on NW due to their shear volume. With NW, NK and AA (Eagle) on DTW-LGA, the DTW-NYC market already has competitive fares. You can get a walk-up to LGA for $250 r/t. Same goes for the Florida markets, Spirit and NW cover them with cheap fares. Remember that NW will price match, and you know they would pull some rediculous stunt the day B6 announces service to DTW, MSP, or MEM. You've seen how they've acted to Frontier and now Indy Air, and of course the pre-emptive strikes at FNT and GRR.

2) DET is bad, horrible, and I'm willing to put money on the fact there will not be commerical air service there for at least another decade or more. They need some serious issues to deal with there, the airfield is not really suitable for airline operations and the city has way too many issues to deal with.

3) PTK is not going to happen. Why should it? Its relatively close to FNT which already has the facilities to accomidate airline service. PTK has nothing, M-59 is one giant traffic nightmare, and it really isn't too convienient for a lot of people.

4) Southeastern Michigan really isn't growing too much population-wise. Its just people keep moving farther and farther out from the city. Too much urban sprawl. This is a huge union town, which means high labor rates and has high property values compared to other similar parts of the country.

Yeah, we'll probably see B6 in either DTW or FNT in the next decade. Of course officials will talk about it, as any company needs to do their market research. What routes is a question we can only speculate, and we can assume NW will counter with some sort of action.
 
neilalp
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:52 pm

M-59 is no more of a traffic nightmare then coming from Oakland County to DTW down I-75 to 94 or I-75 to 696 to the Southfield(M-39) to I-94.

Your right it wont happen at PTK, but the usual 40min drive can take well over 70mins in rush hour to DTW for me.
 
scottysair
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:01 pm

Warszawa,

Yes, it is already service from FNT-FLL for saturday only service and so be it with NW already operate with Saturday flight.
 
BH346
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RE: JetBlue Sets Sights On Detroit!

Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:11 pm

They said that JetBlue was interested in Wichita a few months back...
However, Detroit is a fairly large city so it is a possibility.

I think a better county to demonstrate what Elwood is talking about would be Johson County, Kansas which is where some nice suburbs of Kansas City are. Sedgwick County is made up by the Wichita metro area and right now hasn't been promising economically (too much dependence on aviation). Also, the KC metro area is way larger than Wichita's.

I believe Johnson County is the home of Sprint and there's a lot of businesses and offices there

For Johnson County, KS:
Total population: 451,086
Change in growth from 1990 to 2000: 27.05%
Source: http://www.censusscope.org/us/s20/c91/chart_popl.html

[Edited 2004-07-19 06:12:31]

[Edited 2004-07-19 06:13:41]
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