aa757first
Posts: 3140
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Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:38 am

I have a very odd interest in the arming and disarming of doors. I know two, one from a Canadian 767 Flight Attendant Home Review tape I got on eBay, and one from watching a flight attendant.

767/Disarm
1. Lift the plastic cover.
2. Press the yellow button on the side of the box, and slide the handle down.
3. Shut the plastic cover.
4. Verify the door is disarmed by the absence of both the emergency placard and the girt bar lockdown indicators.

767/Arm
1. Close the door and lock it, by pull down on the rotating arm.
2. Lift the plastic cover.
3. Push the handle up.
4. Shut the plastic cover,
5. Verify the door is armed by the emergency placard the the red girt bard lockdown indicators.

757/Disarm
1. Remove the strip from the window.
2. Pull the handle to the right until the placard says "Disarmed".

757/Arm
1. Put the strip in front of the window.
2. Pull the handle to the left until the placard says "Armed".

Does any one else know how to arm/disarm different doors. I understand MD-80s, 717s, DC-9s, 727s and 737s have a piece of cloth that connects to the door. I'm especially interested in the Airbuses (those doors look complicated) and the 747s and 777s.

Thanks,
AAndrew

Edit: Had the 767 handle positions mixed up.

[Edited 2004-07-19 20:43:11]
 
Sammyhostie
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:54 am

Your interest certainly is odd, if not suspicious, and I as for one as cabin crew would not tell you the proccedures for arming/disarming an aircraft door.


Why do you need or want to know?

If youre that interested in it, wait until your 19 and apply for an airline, then learn how to do it without seeming so weird.

[Edited 2004-07-19 21:01:12]
 
ua777222
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:57 am

I think only a f/a would know that information. And why do you need to know this? I don't want to be mean but just b/c you saw the video and it tells you how to do it I don't think when the capt. come over the pa with "F/a please arm doors for departure" that you wouldn't really be able to do it......

Thanks again and not trying to be an ass at all!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:10 am

SammyHostie,

i really fail to understand your attitude in all your posts. . arming and disarming is not that confidential. passengers watch us do that all the time, and they even ask. he is just a kid, and he is interested in aviation give him a break, would you!

as for the original post:
aa757first,

the 777 doors are armed and disarmed by lifting up a plastic cover, where the lever is, there are two color indicators, red = Armed, Greend=Disarmed. you just position the thing to either arm and disarm.

A330, A340, a lever with a yellow color, which can be switched from two sides Armed and disarmed.

older planes such as the 737, 727, you have to do it manually by locking the gritbar by your self

i hope this helps
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:14 am

aa757first

just to add.. if you email me i can provide you more information that i might not be able to post on this forum.. email is in profile.. just click contact and its there
 
Sammyhostie
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:17 am

Fly Emirates,

So what else would you tell him? Every command? The command which is pretty much universal between airlines bar a few words for an emergency situation?

Passengers, 13 years old or not do not need to know that kind of information.I think you would be misusing your knowledge, training and personal integrity.

Perhaps its a difference between countries and subsequently crews, but the information we are taught has always been held to almost sacred stakes in every airline I have worked with in the UK.
 
aa757first
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:35 am

I thought this my happen. First of all, like I said, I sat there at watched the flight attendant dis/arm her door.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Samuel P. Cooper



There are instructions on dis/arming the doors. I suppose Delta and Continental are breaking the law. I know Continental's doors even explain what Disarm and Arm mean.

Anyway, since it seems this may be confidential information of some sort, don't post it. I don't want to get any employees in trouble with their airlines.

UA777222,
If I understand what you are saying, I realize I'm not going to be dis/arming any doors. I just wondered how they worked.

Thanks Anyway,
AAndrew
 
flyboy80
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:52 am

I think whats funner is actually operating an aircraft cabin door...kind of a side thing I have w/ airliners are there doors... just opening and closing them can be a challege and its neat to be able to get that technical involvement with the aircraft. They come in all shapes, sizes, and many operate in all kinds of unique ways. As far as arming and disarming, thats simply for slide deployment obviously. You can also disarm an aircraft door from the outside. Auto disarm is on pretty much all aircraft except the 737s, 727s, 707s, and DC-9/ MD-80 aircraft.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:09 am

Aa757first and Flyboy80, you two rock! Do not ask me why, but I have the same *fascination* with aircraft doors.

I have a very odd interest in the arming and disarming of doors. I know two, one from a Canadian 767 Flight Attendant Home Review tape I got on eBay
I have the 747 tape (it is from the same seller) and that is very fascination, as it explains all of the emergency functions on the 747.

For the rest of you, it is pretty hard to do anything harmful with the knowledge of aircraft doors. If anything, I think it is a good thing to know, in the event that something should happen where the doors are no longer armed.

Flight attendants openly arm/disarm the doors, so it is nothing secret - not to mention the numerous FA manuals that go up on eBay (as well as the ones I own from trade shows), emergency announcements, etc. Do note, though, that as with most of these items, the sellers are careful who they sell the item to.

No dangers here, folks.

AA and Flyboy, considered yourselves added to my respected users list. Send me an e-mail for my AIM is you want to talk more.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
FinnWings
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:43 am

Sammyhostie,

I don't understand your attitude either...how could that arming/disarming information be harmful? Besides, what does it matter how old someone is. Quite rude comments...

What if AA757first will notice one day after flight that F/A have forgot to disarm the door? Then he could inform the crew and prevent incident...

A short story from the real life....Couple of years ago I was in the work entering to B737... Ground handling company didn't drive stairs to backdoor and I couldn't enter the plane from there like I usually do. Well, I walked inside to the airbridge and entered to the aircraft through the front door. I walked to the back galley and on my way noticed that rampman was just driving the stairs in position. I should had been waiting still few minutes and everything would have been easier... no need to walk so much. Just my luck! I arrived to back galley and frightened when I looked the closed back door. It was ARMED!!! If I would have been opening that door outside I wouldn't perhaps being able to tell this story now......

Who knows, maybe someone (like AA757first) might prevent this kind of situation someday....

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
aa757first
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:52 am

Thanks everyone. I didn't see the harm in asking this question. What harm could it do? SafetyDude, what keywords do you use to find your flight attendant manuals?

AAndrew
 
luv2fly
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:55 am

Hey I think this is an aviation forum and most of us have an interest or just want to know more how something works or how you perform certain functions on board. So good question and sorry for the grief you were given.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:28 am

SafetyDude, what keywords do you use to find your flight attendant manuals?
"Flight attendant manual", "Attendant manual", and "Stewardess manual".  Wink/being sarcastic

Also, I would like to point out the Tech/Ops forum, where I and many others have asked numerous door questions, and all have gotten a large amount of replies.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
B747-437B
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:33 am

the information we are taught has always been held to almost sacred stakes in every airline I have worked with

Its just one way of making you feel better about yourselves considering how badly you get paid and the conditions you work under.

A number of airlines actually instruct passengers in exit rows about arming/disarming procedures as part of the safety briefing. More awareness is a GOOD thing.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ua777222
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:07 am

B747-437B, don't be such a hardass. These people are there to serve us and in the event of an emergency help us. Just remember that next time you fly and say you might be sick. It's a good thing there are people like you out there that s*** on these people so they have grown to just ignore your stupid remarks.

No hard feelings AA757first at all! Just a rather out of left field question. Yet still a good ?. To be honest with you I have no idea. I have been on many flights and haven't seen them arm/disarm the doors at all. I guess the only reason we don't need to know is b/c the only time we (pax) will be opening the doors are when they are armed and in an emergency.

NEW QUESTION!!- Are all the exits over the wing perminitally armed? I saw the picture of the capt. exiting the a/c and no slides deploying to sweep off the wing. If this is that easy then can a pax accidentally de-arm the doors that they are next to?

Thanks again!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
aa757first
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:10 am

UA777222,

Overwing doors are always armed, however, some do not have evacuation slides. The A320 and B767 aircraft do, the B737 and MD-80s do not. I imagine it has something to do with how far the wing is from the ground.

AAndrew
 
CKT523
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:21 am

sammyhostie chill out love, hes 13, hardly a PRIME terrorist candidate and also,why would anyone want to arm or disarm a door for the hell of it? not as if u can open it midflight. calm ureself.
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:25 am

Sammyhostie,

maybe you should get realistic! what he requested was an obvious thing that is seen every time by the public.. now if he asked how to get through the sealed cockpit door then i would be concerned. maybe you should hit your brakes a little bit darlin! i hope that you don't have that attitude on the airplane either
 
ua777222
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:30 am


View Large View Medium
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Photo © John R. Cushma




View Large View Medium
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Photo © Gregg Stansbery




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wim Callaert - Brussels Aviation Photography



So are all of these doors disarmed? Or do they just not have slides? Thanks for any responces!

Thanks again guys! And take a chill pill Sammyhostie!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
User avatar
Crosswind
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:39 am

the information we are taught has always been held to almost sacred stakes in every airline I have worked with

Come on,
I'm with B747-437B on this. Arming/Disarming information for passenger doors on public transport aircraft has to be clearly placarded, it is a legal requirement. Since the informatio is clearly placarded, and passengers in adjacent seats can clearly see doors being armed/disarmed, the information isn't very "sacred" is it?

Find it hard to believe that the UK CAA would approve an airline's Ops manual that inluded procedures whereby selected safety information is witheld as "sacred"

MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Henry Yeh


Regards
CROSSWIND

 
SafetyDude
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:51 am

NEW QUESTION!!- Are all the exits over the wing perminitally armed? I saw the picture of the capt. exiting the a/c and no slides deploying to sweep off the wing. If this is that easy then can a pax accidentally de-arm the doors that they are next to?

Although a bit lengthy, this topic answers that question and much more about OW exits. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/92899/4/

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Jetmarc
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:05 am

I too find a/c doors fascinating. I love watching crews open and close 'em, F/As preparing 'em. I also love pictures of blown slides, dont know why, it's just cool to me...

I was under the impression from my all my different airline training that anything 'sacred' (such as security procedures) wasn't to be printed in the flight attendant manual anyways, but rather commited to memory in the event that should you misplace your manual or have it stolen, sensitive information wouldn't be floating around.

The arming and disarming of doors is public information, done everyday infront of passengers and announced over the PA system. Placards and instructions are clearly printed on the doors too.

As for slides always being armed, I heard at some airlines there is always at least one door armed during boarding to aid in an evacuation if necessary on some larger a/c. Some doors like on the B747 overwing exits (3L/R) are not to be opened when the a/c is fully fueled as you wont be able to reclose the door because the airframe warps due to the weight of fuel in the wing tanks.

Anyways, I think its a fascinating interest and thats why I collect safety information cards and began collecting photos of blown slides and participate in evacuation drills whenever possible....
"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:07 am

As for slides always being armed, I heard at some airlines there is always at least one door armed during boarding to aid in an evacuation if necessary on some larger a/c.

I have always wondered about what would happen if the plane needed to be evacuated on the ground. Does any other airline do this? (Question opened to the public.)

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
aa757first
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:46 am

UA777222,

I think I have answers to your photos. The first two, the DC-9 and B738 do not have any slides at all, so they can be opened. The DC-10 door, to me at least, doesn't look like a true overwing emergency exit in the sense that it is like the main doors, not the hatch type exits.

AAndrew
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:32 pm

Wow, somebody actually stood up to Sammyhostie, the prime example of a bitchy F/A, even off the job! Good for you Fly_emirates and FinnWings!

Sammy, you need to realize that you aren't God's gift to the air transport industry, and here's a little hint: not every damn thing you learn in your special training is confidential. Lordy...what can a 13 year old do with this information that would be so bad? Arm the doors? Oh geez, call the TSA, the police, somebody! The doors have been armed!

Relax and stop flaming people who ask questions. Things like this have been asked long before you arrvied, and they aren't going to stop now that you are here...no wonder British F/A's have unfortunately poor reputations, you certainly don't help the matter!

[Edited 2004-07-20 05:34:47]
 
PER744
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:20 pm

744: Arm: Lift flap, remove pin, slide lever to arm/engaged, close flap

Disarm: Lift flap, slide lever to disarm/disengaged, insert pin, close flap
 
aa757first
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:45 pm

Why do you need or want to know?

I could ask that about 70% of the questions asked on A.net.

I noticed an interesting thing about you. In one post:

Aircraft88

There a charter!

There staff are crap, there planes are crap, ther pax are scuffers!


Why is your ambition so low?

Believe me they are low. I was crew last year at LGW fo a different airline and they have no respect whatsoever.
Once you get a charter on your CV, you wont get anywhere.


No, putting aside the fact you work for, or at least claim to work for, a charter airline, you claim in an earlier post.

I have 12 GCSE's, 3 'A' Levels, and a degree in English from Oxford , Ive tried "normal" jobs, and got paid a lot, but I hated them!

I find it hard to believe an English major from Oxford makes a mistake like that.

But, anyway, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. Also, do airlines have different dis/arming methods on the same aircraft type. For example, the red flag was at a different position (above it) than the DL one pictured above.

AAndrew
 
XNV
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:34 pm

When I was 5 years old I was traveling with my mom. We flew on a red-eye flight and at a stopover she dozed off for a few minutes. When she awoke I was gone and she was momentarily startled until she saw me talking to one of the gate agents asking her a million and one questions.

How do you issue a ticket?
How do you check someone in?
How do you change someone's seat?
How do you book a flight?
How do you display all of the flights going from here to there?

I got worse with age.

Many of us can attest to being airline geeks and our quest for knowledge can be insatiable. I always wanted to know how you opened the doors. When I was 11, flying across the country unaccompanied on multiple flights I asked the flight attendants (who had the sorry job of looking after me for hours on end) millions of questions, of course, including:

How do you open the doors? (she showed me)
How do you close the doors? (she showed me)
Where do you keep the drink carts?
How does the life raft work? (not really applicable on a Dash 8)
Why can't you talk to me while we are landing?

I have had a number of airline jobs in my life, including a flight attendant, airport agent, reservation agent, help desk, training, loading and unloading planes, marketing, and several others. When I applied for a flight attendant position there were over 300 applicants of which they interviewed 30 and hired 9. I was one of them. A bunch of us were out one night with our supervisor during training and we asked how they chose the 9 of us over the other 291. What she said made me stand out - the fact that I had such a diverse knowledge of aviation in general, and during the interview the fact that I knew the airline wet leased a 727 from another company to replace a 737 during their last C-check.

Ask questions. Learn. Feed your aviation brain, it all comes in handy some day.

If you think it's dangerous to tell a 13-year old how to arm/disarm a door is like saying it's dangerous to tell a 13-year old how a plane goes up and down, because they could go to the cockpit and crash the plane. Get real.

On an unrelated topic, learn about safe sex too. Ask lots of questions. Play with condoms - open them up, try them on, be comfortable with them so when the time comes (no pun intended) you will know all about them. The US policy of abstinence and committed relationships as the primary methods to prevent HIV are more than unrealistic (this week's World Health Organization meeting outcome). There are grown adults who believe having the information I put in this paragraph is dangerous too!

You just KNOW someone is reading this post and hyperventillating and can't wait to suggest it be removed for going off topic. Good thing we have people to police these things. Knowledge is dangerous.

 
fly_emirates
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:36 pm

well said XNV!

i mean, just look at it this way.. sometimes when you breif the exit row passengers, especially on an A330 or a 777, they might ask about the slide, and you will explain to them the arming and disarming mechanism... imagine telling an exit row passenger "um, i really can't tell you how to open the door because it is a 'sacred' information, and its confidential" .. some people gotta get real.

" and I as for one as cabin crew would not tell you the proccedures for arming/disarming an aircraft door "

if thats the case, why did you even bother posting! just to be a badge flasher and show people that you know and you have control about you not willing to tell them?

what can i say.. some people are really interesting...

 
flyboy80
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:47 pm

Its also really interesting about particular airline policys regarding operating procedures of the doors... some f/as may clarify here. But at many U.S. airlines the f/as are only suppose to arm/ dis-arm the doors and be done. they don't crack them or even touch the handle..its all up to the gate agent. now if i was a f/a I would liek to do that. Three airlines I can think off that the f/as operate the doors would be WN, HP, and AS...all small airlines... But that too is kind of interesting (Procedure for standard door ops)
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:03 am

flyboy80,

my guess about the US Carriers is that. the airlines you have mentioned as far as i know has planes that arms and disarms manually.. and i have asked a former FA on Gulf air who used to work on the 737-200. mainly after disarming the agent knocks, and you crack the door open then the agent opens the rest of the door.

as far as for the automatic arming and disarming, sometimes up in the air, some of the water leaks toward the bottom of the door and the grit bar gets frozen, and a lot of times even if you disarm it, it remains armed. what happens is on automatic arming and disarming planes when the door is opened from outside, it will disarm automatically, no matter if it was armed or disarmed from inside.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:16 am

Where do you keep the drink carts?
Excellent question!  Big grin

But at many U.S. airlines the f/as are only suppose to arm/ dis-arm the doors and be done. they don't crack them or even touch the handle..its all up to the gate agent. now if i was a f/a I would liek to do that. Three airlines I can think off that the f/as operate the doors would be WN, HP, and AS...all small airlines... But that too is kind of interesting (Procedure for standard door ops)
Most US airlines have the gate agents open the door, but if you watch "Airline" you will notice that the FAs help to rotate the door. For closing the doors, almost all airlines have the gate agents begin to close the doors and then have the FAs completely close them. I believe it is a standard in the UK for FAs to open the doors and gate agents to help.

As it was said in a topic quite a while ago, US airlines do not allow the FAs to open the doors because they might forget to disarm the doors (and have the slide inflate in the jetway), "but I'm not naming any nAAmes."

 Laugh out loud
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:06 am


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Leezyjet



Here's an A343 door that is unarmed.

"I heard at some airlines there is always at least one door armed during boarding to aid in an evacuation if necessary on some larger a/c. Some doors like on the B747 overwing exits (3L/R) are not to be opened when the a/c is fully fueled as you wont be able to reclose the door because the airframe warps due to the weight of fuel in the wing tanks."

You heard correct. Normally on the 744 Door 5L is armed when refuelling with passengers onboard, unless there are steps positioned at that door. You are also correct about the overwing exits too.

On the A346, the small overwing exit doors are permanently armed, and they also are not included in the door numbering either (i.e Door 1,2,3 etc). They are just referred to as the overwing exits.

On some a/c types if a door is armed, then when you open the door from the outside it "should" disarm itself.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:00 am

I just found this picture that gives a good idea of how the A310 door works.
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00154056&size=large

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:36 am

Hi As757first!

Thank you for bringing up such a interesting subject.

I'm a formerly Flight Attendant at Britannia Airways and worked on the B757 and B767, nice to see those procedures again.

Now I fly on the Dash 8 Q400 and Dash 8 series 100/300. There we don't have slides, so we don't arm a/c doors at all, just close them.

But I have a question, I'am a trijet fan, does anybody now the procedures on the MD11 and DC10 ??

Best regards from Per, Norway
Just love flying
 
NWAFA
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:44 am

When I was 13 like AAfirst (for me that would be a hundred years ago) I too would have wanted to know this information! As I wanted to know all about the A/C's.

I don't see where the arming and disarming procedures would hamper security....any PAX sitting on an exit can watch us Arm/DisArm our doors.

To answer your question Persotvik, just beside the control handle on the DC10's there is an arming lever, to ARM you need to slide a lockout pin down (which is on the underside of the lever) and then push the lever flush...thats armed. To DisArm-lift up on the lever and slid the lockout pin into place.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
flyboy80
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:41 am

Does the lock hinge system that the airbuses use work just like the 777, with the door raising up of the hinge before swinging out????
 
Sammyhostie
Posts: 467
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RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:17 pm

On all aircraft, if re-fuelling when boarding there has to be at least 2 ways out.

Normally the L1 door will be open anyway for boarding, and then usually the rear L door will have steps attached in case of an evacuation.

If no steps, one or both of the rear doors have to be armed.
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:33 pm

On all aircraft, if re-fuelling when boarding there has to be at least 2 ways out.
Normally the L1 door will be open anyway for boarding, and then usually the rear L door will have steps attached in case of an evacuation.


That is correct... there has to be enough staff as well in case of evacuation and seat belt sign off during re-fuelling. Fire department has to be informed and permission asked from the airport authorites (from who, I don't know). At some airports boarding isn't allowed at all during re-fuelling...

I remember to read that also number of wheelchair passengers and infants is limited. Too many of those might slow down evacuation process... Is this true?

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:28 pm

That is correct... there has to be enough staff as well in case of evacuation and seat belt sign off during re-fuelling. Fire department has to be informed and permission asked from the airport authorites (from who, I don't know).
I know that at LHR, quite a few times I have boarded a VS plane that was being fuelled and we were told to not fasten our seatbelt.

I remember to read that also number of wheelchair passengers and infants is limited. Too many of those might slow down evacuation process... Is this true?
While disabled passengers might slow down an evacuation, I am not sure if there is a limit on how many can be on the plane. The FAA requires that an aircraft can be evacuated in ninety-seconds or less, with only half of the main-type doors available. With that mandate, I am sure that it is safe to have disabled passenger on board.

Regarding that 4L and 4R have to be armed on the 747 while at the gate, if the aircraft had to be evacuated, the most logical reason would be a fuel-related problem, so I would imagine that 5L and 5R would want to be used, as they are farther away from the wings. Any info as to why? (Perhaps the 4-doors are more convenient for all of the passengers?)

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-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Sammyhostie
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:32 pm

Finnwings,

On any aeroplane there can only be a max 10% of the total pax load being infants.
This is not as much an evacuation issue, but more do to with the number of oxygen masks available.
There is no limit on diasbled passengers.
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:21 am

Thanks Sammyhostie,
That was the explanation which I tried to remember...

FinnWings
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:33 am

But at many U.S. airlines the f/as are only suppose to arm/ dis-arm the doors and be done. they don't crack them or even touch the handle..its all up to the gate agent. now if i was a f/a I would liek to do that. Three airlines I can think off that the f/as operate the doors would be WN, HP, and AS...all small airlines... But that too is kind of interesting (Procedure for standard door ops)

Sorry to bring this back up, but my aunt who flew for Gulf Air, Inc. told me Gulf Air's policy was to disarm, cross check, and have the flight attendant open the door after they heard a knock from the gate agent.

AAndew
 
CKT523
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:48 pm

I noticed this when watching Airline USA, the ramp agent will open and close the door, using the external handle. This, if you think, makes sense on a/c that have slides that disarm when opened from the outside such as the 767 etc, meaning no danger of a blown slide unless the girt bar sticks as mentioned on here (scary thought!).

In the UK, the ramp agent will help "walk" the door when closing and opening if they're feeling helpful, but usually the f/a will complete the whole procedure.We were always tought to wait for the knock from the outside, check the door was disarmed again and then open.Also, even if a ramp agent told us that was it, all on board, we couldnt close unless we asked the permission of the IFM.

When on the 737, we had the procedure that you put the flag over the window FIRST before arming the girt bar, then last AFTER disarming, totally avoids any chance of someone opening the door from the outside whilst the slide is still armed without knowing it.
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3540
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:42 am

When I worked at Bmi, the crews opened and closed the doors on all a/c types. We used to knock on the door to signal to the crew that the steps/jetty were in place and it was safe to open, but someone in BFS knocked on the door and the crew didn't check the slide was disarmed and opened the door causing the slide to blow out into the jetty.

The procedure was abandoned after that as it was "too confusing" for the crew - ahh bless em........instead they would open the door and hang out of it whilst you were trying to drive the jetty/steps onto the a/c which was more dangerous than the knocking on the door !!.  Nuts We would then have to stop the jetty and have to shout to them to close the door so we could position the jetty on the a/c withoug causing any damage.

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"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:54 am

but someone in BFS knocked on the door and the crew didn't check the slide was disarmed and opened the door causing the slide to blow out into the jetty
If this happened on a plane with a powerful slide (say a 744), would it be possible for the slide to knock the plane or destroy the jetway?

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3540
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Arming Doors In Different A/C

Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:41 am

"If this happened on a plane with a powerful slide (say a 744), would it be possible for the slide to knock the plane or destroy the jetway?"

Could damage the jetty I guess, but wouldn't "knock" the plane.

It would more than likely destroy anyone who was standing in front of it, but if that didn't kill them then the would probably suffocate under it.

Some slides though will not inflate until they have fallen a certain distance, so they can just drop out into the jetty but not inflate.

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"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"

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