RCS763AV
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What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:52 am

That would be a good integration; The start of a new South American Mega-Airline, just lake TA or LA.
 
AA300B
Posts: 80
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:54 am

I think Lan is going to be the best south american airline for ever
E145, E170, E190, A310, A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A380, 717 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 77W, 787
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:57 am

As much as I HATE STUPID LAN, that is fairly true.
 
JUANR
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:58 am

I don't understand your point here, right now the most important thing is to save Avianca, I think we are hundred of years away from trying to create an airline based in Colombia trying to compete in Brazil market. The start of your new South American mega airline is too far away, maybe if Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador could, for once in history, agree on something we could create a large airline with a heavy influence in the andean region, but I do not even dream about it.

Juan
SKBO
Bogotá: 2600 Metros Más Cerca De Las Estrellas; Vamos por los XVII Juegos Nacionales!!!!!!!!!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:02 pm

Juan; OceanAir is part of the Sinergy Group; which is the buyer of Avianca, and wants OceanAir and AV to cooperate.
 
AA300B
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:04 pm

RCS763av,

Why do you hate Lan that much???


its the best airline in south america and it also have a real good service
E145, E170, E190, A310, A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A380, 717 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 77W, 787
 
JUANR
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:04 pm

Yes, but there is a loooong way from saving Avianca to enter Brazil market to compete.

Juan
SKBO
Bogotá: 2600 Metros Más Cerca De Las Estrellas; Vamos por los XVII Juegos Nacionales!!!!!!!!!
 
AA300B
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:07 pm

Avianca wants to enter the Brazil market???
E145, E170, E190, A310, A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A380, 717 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 77W, 787
 
RCS763AV
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:09 pm

But they already have the market, just with some advertising saying "OceanAir is now part of the most experienced airline in America, blah blah blah, fly us, fly the best", the OceanAir passengers would fly AVbrasil.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:10 pm

A300B; the topic states "WHAT IF...", we are just speculating.
 
AA300B
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:12 pm

Uuuuhhhhhh.......Ocean air????



Why is everybody ignorin me!??!??! lol
E145, E170, E190, A310, A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A380, 717 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 77W, 787
 
JUANR
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:13 pm

RCS763av, you have just said the way it is, just blah, blah, blah, it is not as easy as that.

BTW seems you are online right now, do you have msn messenger so we can discuss this and other topics?

Juan
SKBO
Bogotá: 2600 Metros Más Cerca De Las Estrellas; Vamos por los XVII Juegos Nacionales!!!!!!!!!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:15 pm

Yea, im online, but dont have msn, my PC is kinda slow right now, so downloading is an odyssey.
 
Arcano
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:58 pm

With the teeny tiny ops of Ocean Air, an "Avianca Brazil" would be even more ridiculous than _________.
(fill the blank with the name of any of the South American airlines that don't fly, don't have aircrafts and/or don't have routes, but they exist in the paper.)

Why is now the desire of all the airlines of the region to become LAN?
Stupid or not, Lan Chile is one of a kind! Although it would be a good time for repliying to the annoying-repetitive-none-value-added comments of RCnosecuanto "I hate stupid avianca"  Insane

Is this where you want to write AV's name on? I know is red already, but...

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Stephan Klos Pugatch



I' with you, A300, maybe the people ignored you because you missed a "g" in that post!  Big grin
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flyinfroggie
Posts: 86
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:40 am

I could see it. It's very similar to when Texas International bought Continental... they decided to keep the Continental name for brand recognition... If I bought the second oldest airline in the world, I would definitely want to keep the name!
 
Fokker50
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:38 am

If OceanAir became AV it would not be big thing, it would only pass to the AV group, which is conformed by Helicol, and SAM. That is not a big deal for AV, this would only have 10 aircrafts more, and that's it.

cheers,
Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:14 am

Well, but they would enter the Brazilian market and could slowly expand.
 
Southamerica
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:50 am

By far one of the most stupid and ridiculous threads I've seen...



AA300B,

Why is everybody ignorin me!??!??! lol

Because you say things that nothing have to do with the thread perhaps...


I think Lan is going to be the best south american airline for ever

What does this have to do with anything?  Insane


Avianca wants to enter the Brazil market???

Where do you get that from?  Nuts


Uuuuhhhhhh.......Ocean air????

Next time, why don't you try reading a bit more about the topic you are going to reply to, maybe then you shall think twice when posting useless rubbish such as that.


---------------------------------------------------

RCS763av,


As much as I HATE STUPID LAN, that is fairly true.

Watch out with those comments pal ! There are several chilean users around who may not like that sort of replies. Yet, LAN is by far the airline that's holding Latin America's name high enough.

Anyway, this whole idea of Avianca Brasil stuff is just ridiculous. OceanAir ain't no Varig nor TAM, their a small regional airline, and so far AV is alerady busy enough with their network from Colombia to be thinking in expanding to other places. Your instead getting annoying with this AVBrasil and AVPeru fuss.  Insane


-----------------------------------------------

Arcano,


Why is now the desire of all the airlines of the region to become LAN?

Apart maybe from AR, who are you talking about? (In the case this comment was directed towards AV, they haven't even thought about going out of Colombia and operating based somewhere else, it's just RCS763av's fantasy)


Stupid or not, Lan Chile is one of a kind!

Absolutely.


Although it would be a good time for repliying to the annoying-repetitive-none-value-added comments of RCnosecuanto "I hate stupid avianca"

Cool way for a 28 year-old to answer to the rubbish of a 14 year-old.  Yeah sure . Agreed with the first part nevertheless.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:27 pm

Umm...the AVPeru thing was just joking SOUTHAMERICA...
 
LVZXV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:42 am

Juanr has a good point. A trinational airline from Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela would not be a bad idea (beneficial to all, no?), and if nothing else would be easy to paint: anything with yellow, blue and red, and none of the countries are likely to be offended. As you say though, Juan, it will probably just remain a dream, unless someone takes a leaf out of TACA's book.
Slightly off topic, does anyone know why EQ has only one international destination? Surely they are overdue for expansion. Or are there issues of the "military" status of the airline?

Saludos,

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:11 am

Well...kinda weird they only fly to Cali, maybe they dont have the funds right now to open new routes.....
 
Ciro
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:47 am

I had the opportunity to meet, throughout the years, a handful airline senior executives and it is really something to see how pragmatic most of them are. As much as we try to undercover some sort of hidden strategies and agendas, it is disappointing to see they just don't exist.

This is pretty much the case with the Synergy group I would say going for Avianca. They just happen to have a regional airline before jumping into a new venture. Both of them have so little in common that it is hard to visualize any sort of common synergy that can be milked off.

In the other hand, having an airline is an excellent self-promotional tool for other ventures in which the group may be looking for in Colombia. This strategy is quite common in Brazil and it works, as we already saw with Ocean Air, Vasp, Gol, Ciprioli and Passaredo!

Cheers!




The fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline business is to start as a billionaire.
 
Fokker50
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:52 am

But here in Colombia we have different customs for traveling by airlines. We are afraid of the low cost airlines, because some of Colombian people thinks that they are a kind of unsafety, and bad attention, so I think is hard to think that what you are naming could be for real, Ciro. Also if AV is not more of the Colombians, (or with more percentage of actions) the people will stop flying them.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:02 am

I wont stop flying AV, this buyout was the only thing to do, or AV would have gone under, and believe me, i wouldn´t take a flight to JFK on AeroRepukeblica
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:14 am

Arcano: You have to start somewhere if you wanna get there...didnt LAN sart off with like 2 A/C?????
 
Southamerica
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:24 am

I wont stop flying AV

Good for you.


i wouldn´t take a flight to JFK on AeroRepukeblica

Why not? If I had to go to JFK I'd obviously take AV (mainly because they're the only one flying there), but if there were more competition, I'd take the one who offers me the best fares.


You have to start somewhere if you wanna get there...didnt LAN sart off with like 2 A/C?????

God, and you insist...



SOUTHAMERICA
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 9:30 am

S.America;it´s not only LAN, almost every airline starts that way. And for the experiences I've had on P5, I´d fly them to JFK only if the ticket was way under AV´s price. (200+$$)
 
Fokker50
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:33 am

SOUTHAMERICA,
Look, I've seen you very rude in you lasts posts, in this discussion, specially with RCS763av, yes he says things that he shouldn't, but don't tel him that kind of things.

RCS763av,
Don't ay thing about LAN, here in A.net are lots of Chilean people, so as Arcano says, your comments, about LAN are annoying-repetitive-none-value-added comments. So hide that kind of things to yourself.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:49 am

Thanx Fokker50, 1st, yes, my LAN comments got annoying, and 2nd, SOUTHAMERICA kept on correcting me with no reason, and for what he believed I had said.
 
Fokker50
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:53 am

Because you paid for them you can say all the things you weat to, but please, don't tell more stuff about LAN

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:09 am

Yea, dunno what happened, i said rubbish bout LAN, it got really moronic. though i still hate ´em.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
RCS763AV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:18 am

Anyway, even if this is the most STUPID AND RIDICULOUS thread some people have ever seen, lets go back to the topic, well, let´s see;

1 AV integrates OceanAir
2 An advertisement campaign is made throughout Brazil and Colombia to reinforce the AV brand.
3 They slowly expand, no way they will ever be RG or JJ, but they can reach a level in which to feed AV´s flights to Colombia.
4 When this level is reached, BOG is advertised as a hub, and people from Brazil would transfer trough it, this would be made if AV offered good fares to the US and Central America.
5 The system would work well and profitably, if not, each airline goes back to their own business.
 
Arcano
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:28 pm

RCS763av : It's OK if you want to hate LA, it's your right. Even, If you would say "I hate Chilean people because I think they are ugly" you would be wrong, but it's your right to be/feel/like what you please. I also have some airlines that I don't like. My "complaint" is that this is not the first time you talk of "Stupid Lan", which is becoming, as posted, annoying, repetitive and add nothing to the forum.

Please, don't take it like, since there are Chileans in the forum you have to shout comments about Chile. You have the right to express opinions about LAN, Chile, Air France or Botswana if you want. But post things that add value, or post some light comments like that just once, when it could matter or, at least, be funny to read.
It's not that you offended me or Chile, but for that kind of comments, let's better keep our fingers out of the keyboard, OK? Estan absolutamente de mas, no aportan. BTW, I'd like to hear (maybe better email me), why do you hate LA so much? What LAN did to you?
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LVZXV
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:40 pm

RCS....:

I think you too would become irritated if I kept posting for example "I hate Malaysia Airlines, stupid Malaysia Airlines" etc. without ever stipulating a good reason. If you've had bad experiences with LAN please share them with us, because with both LA and LP I never encountered a problem.

Saludos,

XV

P.S. Arcano, te contesté.

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Southamerica
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:00 pm

For those who answered to me directly, please  Insane , stop being such crybabies, the thread in fact is ridiculous, if you take the time to read a bit more about Synergy's investment plans on AV you would find out that even if it's pure speculation, the thing is just out of anyone's mind.

But, if that's what you want, I'll stick to the post:


RCS763av,

1 AV integrates OceanAir

No, it won't happen. The investment plan is going to be made under strict rules, between which you'll find that German Efromovich is to keep AV for only three years, and then sell it to another investor. So, under that situation, centering attention on any business that would not include AV would be absolutely unnecessary.


2 An advertisement campaign is made throughout Brazil and Colombia to reinforce the AV brand.

That would take a lot of money and time, things that unfortunately AV (or fortunately for the sake of thread  Yeah sure ) does not have. Still, the brazilian market is more than wide and efficiently covered by the handful of home-based airlines that operate down there.


3 They slowly expand, no way they will ever be RG or JJ, but they can reach a level in which to feed AV´s flights to Colombia.

Again, that would take a lot of time and money, and probably it would spend energies and efforts that could have been earned and canalized towards AV in Colombia. An airline cannot operate in function/feeding one flight. It's as crazy as saying that Virgin America would operate in favor of feeding Virgin Atlantic's flights in San Francisco mostly.

AV's presence in Brasil is small. Daily 757 to GIG via GRU. That's all. Varig has equally scaled back through the years. The route performance is not all that hot, yields must be good (nor sure though), but loads leave more to be desired.


4 When this level is reached, BOG is advertised as a hub, and people from Brazil would transfer trough it, this would be made if AV offered good fares to the US and Central America.

BOG has not, nor will have until 2025 the layout necessary to attend a hub system such as the one you mention. Plus, the Brasil-US market is already widely covered by airlines from both sides.


5 The system would work well and profitably, if not, each airline goes back to their own business.

Let me laugh at this one  Insane . So what? You think it's as easy as saying "It didn't work, let's go back !" and everyone's happy? Ha !.


That's why I think what I think, RCS763av.

So, Fokker50 and RCS763av, happy now? BTW Fokker, stop being the lawer here which does not look hot on ya'.  Big grin




SOUTHAMERICA
 
Ciro
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:24 pm

Fokker50,

Sorry but I did not understand what my post has to do with a low-cost carrier as you are saying. Did not get the link. Could you, please, explain?
The fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline business is to start as a billionaire.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:40 pm

Ok, the "It didin´t work" is not that easy, but this can´t have a "but" everywhere.
 
Fokker50
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:34 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:42 pm

My example of the low cost airlines, is only an example of how the Colombians act when we have a new product, we (I'm talking about the people that doesn't know about this airlines very much, because they think that they are unsafe) act very conservative and travel in the airline that have the most low fares, and the airline that we most know about it, but some people, for the patriotiscm, if AV is bought by the Brazilians, a big number of people will stop flying AV only because is not more of the Colombians.

Fokker50

[Edited 2004-07-26 16:51:37]
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:01 am

I´ll personally will never stop flying AV, but common people will dislike the brazilian ownership, even if it was the last thing to do to avoid ceasing operations.
 
Fokker50
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:34 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:16 am

No, I'm talking about only for the people that will dislike that AV is now part of the synergy Group, will stop flying AV.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:35 am

I will tell you the reason why I hate LAN, from my point of view, they have a very monopolistic attitude towards the market, and compete unfairly with small airlines.
 
Fokker50
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:34 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:51 am

I will tell you what I think about LAN. For me is an airline with monopolistic practices, including extremely low fares, that impede the development of smaller airlines, not only in Chile, also in all entire South America.
But they need to do that, because, Chile is a very small country, so they already have been grown up to a level in which impede more monopolistic development in the Chilean Country. So they, grow up outside, Chile, like in Peru, Ecuador, Dominican republic, and in a few months to Argentina and Colombia.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:50 am

I'm not about to make an economy lesson (which I could). Only a few thoughts. None company in none industry have "monopolistic behavior". The development of a monopoly is made by the market (in case of "natural monopoly") or by laws/specific regulations (in case of artificial monopoly).

LAN has no such attitude, just a tough competitor as P&G is for Lever or Coke for Pepsi: every company wants to grow and take part of the competitor market. It's the way capitalism works.

To charge "extremely low" fares is fair if it's sustained by extremely efficient management, as the LCC intend to do, as Ikea does, as Lada cars did, as Lan does. But, if LA (or any company) charges below the unitary total cost equilibrium (another technical term), that is called "dumping" and it's illegal (although it's hard to prove). For the routes that are indeed in monopolistic status, Chilean Government regulate the fares, as many governments do with their monopolies (electricity distribution is the most common).

For your information, LA competitor, SKY, have lower prices. You could learn in economics, there are terms called "niche", "target market", "cost oriented vs. Differenced generic strategy" or "competitive advantage", that, in the end, makes a company succeed or fail. Lan does not dump, but competes hard, which is legal and transparent. Why Sky has no better marketshare? Lan charges more because they have a better product, and the people who value that is willing to pay more.

I know you are young and you have no studies in economics, just a side note to make you understand that not because you "feel" a company is "bad", you are right. Market regulation is a very complex process which requires years of study, so don't go around spreading ideas that are not accurate, and don't bias yourselves trusting in your believes only, we don't have always all the background for a proper opinion.

Fokker50: You are right, we are only 15 millions and our market is small. but is is not only the reason for LAN to look abroad; McDonalds, Coca Cola, Levis, Lever, Carrefour and Wallmart are all companies born in huge markets that looked abroad for more chances to grow. Again, an airline is just another business. The difference for us lays in the fact that aviation is an industry that we like more than the rest.

PS: SouthAmerica: my apologies for getting out of the topic, but you knew I would  Big grin

Arcano
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soamsky
Posts: 293
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:10 am

"I will tell you what I think about LAN. For me is an airline with monopolistic practices, including extremely low fares, that impede the development of smaller airlines, not only in Chile, also in all entire South America."

Hi ya'll

I would really want to know where to get these extremely low fares you're talking about. I'm planning go to Chile this year and find LanChile to be the most expensive way.

Regards
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:38 am

Domestically, their fares are very cheap, and in order to compete SKY has to make them lower, that, makes SKY loose money in flights that are not very full, thus not have a good profit margin, as I am telling you, from my point of view, im not Chilean, neither an expert on LAN, but that is how I see it works.
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:46 am

"1 AV integrates OceanAir

No, it won't happen. The investment plan is going to be made under strict rules, between which you'll find that German Efromovich is to keep AV for only three years, and then sell it to another investor. So, under that situation, centering attention on any business that would not include AV would be absolutely unnecessary."


As far as I know, under Copa/Continental deal, Colombian coffee growers will be out of the picture. Unlike Sinergy deal where they will retain 25% shares, and have the option of selling after those years. So, it seems to me Efromovich can keep Avianca as long as he wants.

Regards
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
Arcano
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:38 am

SoAmSky:

You are right, in ALL international destination, LA is the most expensive airline, why? because in most of the cases it's the best option.
And in Chile is the same, the most expensive alternative (although it's cheap).


RCS763av : Buddy, you have NO IDEA what are you talking about. Sometimes the best argument is to remain silent.
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Fokker50
Posts: 344
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RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:02 am

ARCANO:
I've been noticed that LAN is more cheap than AV, AR, and lots more that serve SCL. So, why do you say that is more expensive to travel LAN than travel AV????

Tikets:
AV-$ 200
LA-$ 179
(in american dollars)

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:24 am

Fokker50

From where/to what destination are you comparing that?
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
Fokker50
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:34 am

RE: What If... OceanAir Became Avianca Brasil

Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:34 am

BOG-SCL. In tourist class.

Fokker50
Bogota, the South american gateway!