Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:02 pm

Ryanair's chief pilot has resigned this afternoon, after a flight from Jerez, Spain into STN where he allowed 2 cabin crew to sit in the toilet on take off and landing.

Just about sums them up.

There was quite a few loyal supporters on here, harping on about their excellent attitude to safety!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:04 pm

Why did the FA have to sit in the toilet ? What happened to the jumpseats ?

Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:06 pm

The jumpseats were probably already sold to passengers!

Just so I dont get any of that "wheres your source" crap, it has just been the breaking news on BBC News.
 
mrwayne
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:15 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:06 pm

That just sums them up like Sammyhostie says, cheap, shoddy and crap. Ryanair all over.
 
steve7e7
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 11:33 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:09 pm

I've just seen it too Sammy.

Yep,looks like O'Leary's insanity even extends to breaking the cabin rules in the name of a few quid more profit!!

Lock him up somebody please,before he turns the LCC industry into a farce.

Steve.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:18 pm

Well, if the media cannot write or speak about financial problems of an airline they need to publish such things...

Even if it doesn't look like, Ryanair are professionals. And believe me if you run a company with thousands of employees some of them produce shit from time to time. You cannot avoid that completely.

Ryanair has different and crazy ideas and this is exactly what you need in this business.

There are about 4 or 5 topics against Ryanair on the board right now. Probably the same people bashing them with every opportunity are buying a ticket of them tomorrow because they can save money...

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:24 pm

It dosent matter how big a company is.

The rules are laid down by the CAA. NO-ONE is allowed in the toilets at take off ir landing, only the Gash Bag in a fire retardent bag!

This shows a complete lack of regard for safety.
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:27 pm

RJ100,
this is not just a "shit will happen"-thing.
This is a major breach of security, and is bound to reflect on the Ryanair image, tarnished as it already is.
I mean, the story is in the news here in Norway, too, as it is bound to be in most countries served by FR.

- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:29 pm

Yes, the rules need to be followed. But believe me in a big company things like this happen-even if they can not be tolerated- they can not be avoided completely.

Safety regulations get broken every day a few thousand times in every country in all industries. However the media are only making it public when airlines are involved- or even better for them- Ryanair.

Regards,
RJ100

[Edited 2004-07-23 14:30:25]
none
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:32 pm

RJ100,

No-one breaks safety rules in aviation. you cannot afford to.
Cabin crew are there to look down the cabin and to be aware and visible during the crucial phases of flight.

We.re not talking about working in a bloody factory here.

Flight and Cabin Crew follow S.O.P's to the letter, as I said before, we cannot afford to, for our safety and the passengers.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:37 pm

Sammyhostie, I completely agree with you. We cannot tolerate it. What I want to say is that media are "specialized" in bashing certain airlines. Only because Ryanair has low fares they will write that this is the reason for safety problems etc. but safety problems can occur due to different reasons. Maybe FR has just grown too fast recently etc.

Methinks that some media are making a bigger story out of this than they would if it would have happened with a "normal carrier".

But again, we cannot tolerate such an incident and FR needs to take action.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
ben
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 9:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:41 pm

No-one breaks safety rules in aviation. you cannot afford to.

For someone who is "in the industry" that is a very naive thing to say. I personally know that safety rules are frequently broken. Maybe not from a cabin crew point of view, but even on 'respectable' airlines I have seen/heard of rules being seriously bent, mostly on the flight deck. Yes, 'snitch box' technology prevents it a lot, but the vast majority of aircraft don't have those recorders.

The two factors which cause the bending to be done in the first place are no surprise: Money (pressure from above) and Time (don't go-around, we need to get to the hotel before the bar closes).
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:43 pm

No-one breaks safety rules in aviation

Actually, it happens more or less every day, at every airline. I totally agree, SOPs should be followed to the letter, but humans will be humans, and I see SOPs and Memos ignored all the time (and not just at my Co., you'll be surprised what can go on at other UK-based airlines).

Irrespective of the above, I'm quite shocked that the Chief Pilot at Ryanair (or ANY pilot) would allow such a thing to happen. It's totally unacceptable & dangerous for all sorts of reasons.

I too admire Ryanair's ideas, but this is just bloody stupid, apart from being illegal etc. etc.
 
srilankan_340
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:42 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:44 pm

Before all of you anti O'Leary start shouting,

Remember Ryan air is a large organisation and like any other company you cannot control the actions of a minority of individuals.

In my opinion, its not Ryanair that is to blame , but the Captain of that particular flight who is the guilty party. He/She should have refused to fly or off loaded these extra souls. Ultimately, that's why the Captain is paid £'000 and why it takes seniority to get to that level.

The captain is in charge of his plane and that is it. He is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the passengers and crew on it.

Sack the flight deck crew and not bash O'Leary or the chief pilot or hold them responsible for this stupidity of the Captain!


People are often unreasonable, illogical and self- centered: Forgive them anyway - Mother Theresa
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:46 pm

Its as simple as:- everyone in the a/c should be sat down in a proper seat with a seatbelt on.

My airline puts safety and S.O.P's first before everything.
If it compromises safety, we dont do it. end of.
 
pilatusguy
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:21 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:54 pm

Whilst I agree that something like this should never happen one also has to "credit" the pilot in some way. At least he realized how stupid he was allowing such a thing and draw the consequences.

Before somebody starts bashing - I also understand that this is not an excuse...
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:55 pm

@Srilankan_340

Great, the flight deck crew is responsible..... Well, Why did the Chief pilot resign for a breach of rules HE was agreeing to? I assume the crew was talking to him as they didn't like the idea to fly the plane in this illegal set-up. So, following your logic, if they refused to do their job, I am 100% sure that MOL himself would have caused them a hard time not to say kicked them out as a compensation for the lost revenue.....

Cheers, Thomas
 
fraT
Posts: 992
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:56 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but by reading the thread starter I understand that the chief pilot himself allowed that or was forced by anybody to do it. And it became public because he resigned.
So Ryanair and/or the chief pilot are definitely to blame.
 
Dexter
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:20 pm

I'm not sure I understand some of the reactions in this thread. The whole thing shows that FR is actually committed to safety. They fired the F/As who breached the rules and the captain resigned. I mean didn't just ignore it.
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2271
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:25 pm

I thought this thread was a joke or a very late April fools...

But I have just heard it on BBC News 24 myself.

Seems like Ryanair have taken swift action to sack the people in question and the Irish Aviation Authority are investigating this who is the jurisdiction the airline falls under.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:46 pm

There are two points that could be made here more or less:

1. O'Leary, inspite of being a frightening pathological nut-case, in all probability had nothing to do with this incident. I would be hugely suprised if Ryanair had any corporate policy of seating passengers in jumpseats.

2. This incident nonetheless did happen at Ryanair, which in some respects might demonstrate a "corporate culture problem". I've never heard of another airline having revenue PAX occupy jumpseats, and I don't think at any other airline is there such an all-costs-must-be-cut attitude. This corporate culture I would argue is incredibly dangerous. If every employee in the company is looking for ways to cut costs, some of the ideas they come up with are bound to be bad, and possibly unsafe.

When Ryanair employees start infringing on safety in an effort to control costs, this of course crosses the line between what is acceptable and what is unacceptable, in anyone's definition (except perhaps that of O'Leary The Mad). We've seen LCCs engage in dubious operational practises in the past in the name of cost cutting (see Air Florida and ValuJet), and so it is not inconceivable that Ryanair could be bending the rules a bit.

What needs to occur, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, is the Ryanair board needs to step in and gain control of the situation, disposing of O'Leary. A new CEO could change the corporate culture from a spendthrift-one to a wiser value-oriented corporate culture, working to improve the image of the airline, the quality of service provided, and the general corporate culture to one less inclined to potentially disastrous circumstances.

-WGW2707
 
ben
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 9:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:46 pm

Sammyhostie,

Are cabin crew with double (but too similar) personalities considered a safety risk too?
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:51 pm

LOL Ben!

There is only 1 Sammyhostie, believe me!
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4794
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:55 pm

There is only 1 Sammyhostie, believe me!

Yes, and let me guess: it exists in MrWayne's rather vivid imagination, yes?
 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:02 pm

Hi All,

I have been lurking for a while but have not posted for a long time. My Swiss friends will remember some "spirited" discussions we have had in the past!  Smile

Anyway, I just wanted to comment on what RJ100 said. He said that some media outlets make it their specialty to pick on certain airlines or certain destinations. They have their "pet projects". During my years in Switzerland Crossair was picked on severely by the media. Then after the formation of SWISS, they became the favorite target of the media.

Sometimes the criticism of Crossair was fair, but as often as not the so-called journalists really do not know much about aviation, so their views and reports cannot really be taken too seriously. Obviously, if F/As were sitting on the toilets for take-off and landing that would constitute a serious safety breach and must be investigated. But the mainstream media often reports things which are, if not false, gross misrepresentations of what really happened.

The criticism of SWISS was also generally negative, unfair and often just plain false.

I was not there on the Ryanair plane. Neither were any of the journalists. Neither were any of us. But it certainly seems like someone has picked out Ryanair for criticism and it hardly seems balanced. I am no longer in Europe (most of the time at least) but I do pick up the media reports on the internet. I do not see the same level of criticism of other airlines.

IMHO, someone has a bone to pick with Ryanair and it is likely not totally fair.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the chief pilot and what the real explanation of the incident is. If it turns out that the flight attendants really were on the toilets, then there surely needs to be consequences. I can hardly believe that a chief pilot would depart knowing that this was going on, though.
smrtrthnu
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:29 pm

Cheap, shoddy, boo hoo!

Ryanair are making money - not many other airlines can say that, least of all MYT! If they breach safety regulations then they will be punished.

Now while we talk about safety, what about Mytravel?

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/11/11991_safety_pledge_after_midair_scare.html

Dear me!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:56 pm

Where's Pe@rson when you need him - I'm surprised he's not on here arguing that it was a minor infraction and a reasonable act any airline would take to get their staff back home (or even that it shows how benevolent Ryanair are towards their staff!!!)  Insane

====

Seriousluy... FWIW, based on available information the operating crew were at fault for allowing it to happen and should be have disciplined as described. But such events sometimes point to a cultural problem within the organisation concerned - the buck stops with postholders for the AOC and action further up the management tree is usual in such cases. In my experience airlines get away with one or two transgressions like this (providing that they don't result in an accident), with repremands being served higher up the tree. However, each is one step closer - one too many repremands and bigger heads will roll.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
jamotcx
Posts: 839
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:20 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

My airline puts safety and S.O.P's first before everything.
If it compromises safety, we dont do it. end of.


LOL

I dont know about ur MyTravel ops down south but at MAN they are broken from time to time, like with all airlines. Whenever something happens it always seems to filter around the airport very fast.

No airline is perfect.

Also you said that you sell spare meals on board for £5 a throw. Where does this money go? I had a word with the MyTravel CSM at work and we dont see any of that money off the flights.


Jamo
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:12 am

We get comission at LGW on meals sold. but i dont know what happens to the rest of it or what happens at MAN.

We sell quite a few on our flights, as usually at least 25% are no -meal pax.
 
RB211LTN
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:40 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:14 am

Let's not turn this into another Ryanair-bashing exercise. I am neutral on the Ryanair debate, I have BA concessions so I don't have to fly with them. I would not let this incident cloud my judgment. This did not endanger any fare-paying passengers so it needs to be put in perspective. It was a silly decision by the Captain. I'm surprised that the senior FA allowed it. I would have got off the aircraft rather than knowingly allow people to sit in the loo during take-off and landing because they didn't have a seat in the cabin.
The customer is always right.....unless he is a passenger!
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:25 am

Lawdy!
Stop making excuses on behalf of Mr O'Leary, will you please?

This is a question of company culture, and the O'Leary is the capo as far as such matters are concerned.

Keep on praising FR for cutting prices, by all means, but cutting corners is one thing.

Building an empire with no corner stones is quite another.

It's FR's cost cutting to the extremes which made this happen.

And it's illegal.

- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:30 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3920503.stm

They weren't the crew of the flight.

They were off-duty. Looks like the safety of the passengers wasn't compromised after all.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:33 am

Which makes it legal?
We know this 777236ER. Have for some time.... Since Sammyhostie posted this thread, in fact.

- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:39 am

Thanks Caravelle,

Thank god somenoe reads the post!
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:45 am

And it wasn't the Chief Pilot, it was a senior pilot. Ryanair has a good few senior pilots.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:16 am

What a load of bo!!ocks! Wow, one alledged incident. BA has had two FATAL crashes (http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/bab.htm) killing a total of 118 people. I bet it's had several non-fatal crashes, too. So is it fair to say that BA is unsafe? No - just like it's not fair to say that FR is unsafe. Let's not forget that FR hasn't had a fatal crash. LH and KL have had 3 fatal crashes - and AF has had SEVEN. FR hasn't had one - yet foolish prats here think it's unsafe! Haha, I think not. It's just like saying WN is more unsafe than AA, UA, DL... but it's not: it hasn't had one single FATAL crash in over 30 years of operation whereas AA has had 12, DL 6, and UA 11. Hmm... it speaks for itself. Oh, don't forget forget that US has had 9 and TWA 6. It all speaks for itself. GROW UP YOU IGNORANT FOOLS!

Oh, the information was from airsafe.com
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12397
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:33 am

I recall that in the early 1980's a PanAm flight from some Carribbean island to the states, I believe a 727, had a couple too many pax than seats on board. This event got the media's attention and there was a lot of problems for the flight and cabin crew afterwards. Here they should also fire (or in UK/Irish terms 'sack') all of the cockpit and cabin crew as well as non-rev's for allowing this to happen. The cabin crew probably found a way to sneak them on board in total violation of any and all national flight ops rules. I realize that Ryanair has a bad rep for being cheap, but so far not for putting pax or the company in danger.
 
RogerThat
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:13 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:00 am

A few years ago a friend of mine flew from Newark to Tel Aviv on El Al. He told me he was seated in the crew rest seats on take-off, then moved to the crew jump seats during flight when the crew were resting. He talked about how this was done all the time. Don't know if its true or he was just pulling my leg. Has anyone else heard of this?
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:37 am

Pe@rson,

thanks for calling me an ignorant fool.
I really appreciate that.


- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
Guest

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:48 am

If you want to start blaming and pointing the finger at airlines I can tell you that Air France or Air Chance  Big grin as the GEASES Engine Facility staff like to call them in Treeforest, South Wales...

I worked there for Work Experience and they service some of AF's engine's there...

They said that they don't look after them at all and that any mods they suggest to be added or never done so... unlike other airlines such as BA, VS..

I also saw some FR engines whilst there and they said that FR looked after them better than most airlines including IB, AF and AZ..

BTW, the AF engine I saw was a CFM.. off an A320 I believe..

Regards,

Chris
 
Sammyhostie
Topic Author
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:57 am

Rogerthat,

This is done quite reguarly, but is of no safety issue because all seats have seatbelts on.

Crew's partner;s often travel on rest seats on trips.
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:24 am

I don't claim to have the most valid opinion in the forum but I have flown some 24 times on FR in the last 5 years--and on 17 different aircraft. Until last year, they were bearable. Seats were ok, services convenient, rudeness at a tolerable level.
In Spanish there is the saying "lo barato sale caro" (what's cheap is expensive, loosely translated), something that crook O'Leary fails to grasp. Last August, they nearly had a nasty accident with my sister on board when they overloaded one of the 732s on a hot day and it took-off with less than 200m of runway remaining, and with a shallow rate of climb. Had the pilot aborted the take-off, due to their illegally short turnarounds, I doubt the old aircraft's hot wheel-brakes would have functioned correctly.
I flew with FR from STN-PMO-STN last week, and since the last time I had flown on them almost a year before, they no longer seemed like the same airline, especially with with their new cabins. The 737-800s both ways resembled flying bins; huge rubbish bags in the aft galley, no water in the bathrooms, no air-conditioning throughout the flight (in spite of several requests), extortionate soft-drinks, crumbs and trash all over the cabin, and unwashed puke stain by the front door...DISGUSTING! On top of that, the first 6 rows of seats were cordoned-off on the return flight, the reason given by the crew was that all the aircraft's hold luggage was in the forward compartment so as to speed-up unloading at STN (it's a few metres closer to the terminal), so basically it was an issue of trim (or poor load factors?).
Compared with LCCs like Easyjet, GOL and Volareweb.com, they are an absolute shower and a disgrace. O'Leary deserves to be shot if he treats his customers like dirt, plans to implement a system of penalties for passengers carrying hold luggage (he expects them to be able to go on holiday for 2 weeks with a light carry-on bag--so much for his hygiene!) cannot be bothered to prioritise safety over profits and thinks he can get away with unpaid fuel bills worth £1 million at STN. And funnily enough, I'm going to the Basque region in a week. Return fares were as follows:

AF: £190
FR: £200

I think numbers speak louder than words...

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:34 am

LOL... Well at least Pe@rson ran true to form!  Insane

For what its worth, accidents are just that - accidents - rarely are "accidents" intentional acts. Events like departing an aircraft with people sat on the toilets (by definition therefore overloads, at least as far as people are concerned) is an intentional act that points to disregard for legal and safety considerations on the part of those directly involved, and could (repeat, only could) indicate a more deep-rooted culture regarding safety standards. As has already been said, there will be an official investigation. If such runs true to norm, Ryanair senior management (as responsible postholders for their AOC) will receive a repremand - a "nice" little letter from the Irish CAA... Chalk one up to Ryanair - one too many reprimands, and heads will be required...

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:47 am

Money (pressure from above) and Time (don't go-around, we need to get to the hotel before the bar closes).

Ben,

If you think that the latter statement is true, EVER, then you're even more ignorant than your previous posts have made clear.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:24 am

Last August, they nearly had a nasty accident with my sister on board when they overloaded one of the 732s on a hot day and it took-off with less than 200m of runway remaining, and with a shallow rate of climb. Had the pilot aborted the take-off, due to their illegally short turnarounds, I doubt the old aircraft's hot wheel-brakes would have functioned correctly.

Sorry, what made you think that? Were you on board? Watching from the ground?

If you think safety was compromised and you didn't tell the CAA/IAA then you'd be just as much as fault as Ryanair were an aircraft to crash.

Unless of course you're just guessing safety was compromised.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
snnams
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:56 am

"due to their illegally short turnarounds"....

And from where did you get the idea that they were illegal? and what did an aborted take off have to do with turnround anyway?
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:33 am

Last August, they nearly had a nasty accident with my sister on board when they overloaded one of the 732s on a hot day and it took-off with less than 200m of runway remaining, and with a shallow rate of climb. Had the pilot aborted the take-off, due to their illegally short turnarounds, I doubt the old aircraft's hot wheel-brakes would have functioned correctly.


Jumping on the bandwagon here, it's impossible to judge takeoff safety (as WELL as distance) from an airplane spotter's perspective. Such a statement is ill-informed and irresponsible, but such is the nature of Airliners.net.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:33 pm

777236ER, Snnams, JBirdAV8r:

Just to set the record straight, the airport was BIQ. I saw the plane's late and shallow climb-out from RWY 27 while driving away from the airport, but when I returned in the evening, pilots from the aeroclub, who had been standing perpendicular to the aircraft's rotation point, told me the "the Ryanair plane almost failed to take-off this afternoon", as they pointed to where the aircraft left the ground. I've flown in and out of that airport in both commercial and light aircraft, and can confirm where the various reference points lie in relation to the runway. It was no optical illusion. On any chart for BIQ/LFBZ you can work out that parrallel to the 200m mark on that runway's south side is the apron for the aeroclub. The distance was confirmed by ATC.
Of course, as the plane took-off safely it didn't make the news. FR have up to 3 x daily flights to BIQ in high summer. They have been flying there for 5 years. AF has 6 x daily flights and Regional has some to CFE too. For a small airport, that's a fair amount of traffic. And according to the pilots at the aeroclub, it was the hairiest take-off they'd ever seen involving a Ryanair plane. They were not sutpid.
It was 35C that day, very humid, and the plane was carrying two rugby teams. And somehow, it became overloaded for the particular meteorological conditions. Nonetheless, someone had done some miscalculations.
As for wheel-brakes, they are meant to be allowed 45 minutes to cool. FR is not the only airline to breach that regulation, but a 20 minute turnaround on a hot day is just not on.
As for the CAA, the incident was in France. As far as I know, it wasn't the CAA's business.
Think before you start calling such statements "ill-informed and irresponsible".

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
ckfred
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:16 pm

This is a little off the subject, but I was on an AA 737-800 from ORD to BOS. After the F/As finished the safety briefing and sat down, a woman got up and went to one of the rear lavs.

Apparently, this woman was horribly afraid to fly, because everyone in the last few rows could hear her vomiting. She did manage to get back to her seat before takeoff.

But darn if she didn't do the same thing as we started final approach into Logan. And we were landing in a strong snowstorm, so the plane was pitching and rolling severely. She was in the lav until the plane exited the runway.

I don't know if the F/As saw her, but if she's that afraid to fly, maybe she should drive in the future.

 
jc2354
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

RE: Ryanair Chief Pilot Resigns!

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:01 pm

Anybody have any idea how they got caught/who turned them in?

Regards,
Jack
If not now, then when?