saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

Any Good News At Swiss?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:23 am

Hello Swiss friends!

I have completed all training and transition courses and am now flying on the line in the US. I was fortunate enough to have been hired on at one of the larger so-called "regional" carriers here. The majors are not hiring so it was my best chance. My experience at Crossair and SWISS was superb and made the training here in the US relatively easy. Swiss aviation, despite what some "Aviatikexperten" will say, is high quality!

My transition course for the CRJ-200 was easier for me than for my colleagues who had not yet had much experience with a "real" airline.

Anyway, now that I am in the skies again (though not in Europe...) I am curious what is happening in Switzerland and with SWISS in particular? I have heard from some friends who are still there that the situation between SWISS Pilots and Aeropers and management has not really improved. I hope I am wrong. Also, what is the news on the new CEO? How has he been recieved?

Many of my old friends are flying now at Darwin in LUG! I was offered a job there on the Saab 2000 and would have taken it had I not been in training here on the new jet.

Well, CH-Freunde, I hope all is well there and I hope for good news! I hope to return to the skies above the Alps again and hope that ZRH will be there (and not shut down by the anti-airport people!!) when I arrive!
smrtrthnu
 
md11dude
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:03 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:41 am

hey saab2000,i cant say much as i dont fly anything over the King Air, but ive been hearing things about swiss not hiring pilots for their mainline fleet for 7 months.....its just hearsay, so dont take it heavy, i dont buy it either....but its looking dismal everywhere.
CP979
 
GloryDaysSR
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:33 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:54 pm

All I can say is its not SR (my mom was staff for 32 yrs hense the Screename).

I hate the new brown seats

hehe

 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:18 pm

MD11dude,

What do you mean by "mainline"? SWISS is all one company. Also, they have not only not hired, but they have laid off hundreds of pilots. I was one of them and had my last SWISS flight last October 24.... I miss it and despite all the negative things in the company, I miss SWISS. It was my company and I felt good about it. It is my real hope that things can improve and that one day I can fly there again, or at least fly in Switzerland again.

I wish I knew the answers to the problems. Unfortunately, I don't. Aviation is a tough business, especially these days.

I hope that when I return there will still be an aviation industry in Switzerland.....
smrtrthnu
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:29 pm

I hope that when I return there will still be an aviation industry in Switzerland...

Don't worry, there will be! New comers like Baboo, Helvetic, Hello, Darwin, Helvetia Xpress (presently hiring staff) will jump into the gap should LX vanish!
 
EZYcrew
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:41 am

Things are worse than ever before. Most pilots (both ex-LX and ex-SR) who were a bit enthousiastic a few months ago are now turning bitter. Most of my colleagues believe we only have 2 possibilities :
-liquidation
or
-a LH buyout (for a symbolic CHF1.--, grounding of all longhauls and re-branding as a LH Regional partner to feed their AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA and MUC hubs).

Anyway, a big announcement will be made before the release of the winter timetable, if any this year...

lx-f/a, ARJ, 320
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:40 pm

Unfortunately there are not many good news about SWISS. Media reports indicate that there will be a big announcement made by SWISS quite soon.

What can we expect to be announced?

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:04 am

Sorry but SWISS is just unbelievable...no wonder they are struggling...
What happened to me today is just too much...

I'm working part time in the travel department of a big company. We are very loyal to SWISS when we book flights and we book a lot of flights!! Due to some reasons LX decided to cut the midday departures between August 7 and August 30 from BSL to Vienna, Dusseldorf, Amsterdam, Brussels and Munich. Where do we know that from? From the newspaper. SWISS did not contact our company. SWISS says they do it because of low bookings but we have pages full of passengers using these midday flights during this time and every passenger is worth around 1300 Francs! And this is an eco tariff!! So our boss calls SWISS immediately (SWISS was in our company lately and was complaining about easyJet's new competition in BSL). It was just unbelievable how arrogant the lady on the phone answered. She told us to book the passengers on the morning and evening flights (or different: SWISS has already booked the pax on these flights without telling us). What do they think?? Why do we pay 1300 CHF and book them on the midday flights? Because all those pax have important things to do every day and cannot take the morning/evening flights! Now lot of pax have trouble to get to their destination and meet other people there.
BTW, my dad is one of the pax. We have now cancelled the BSL-VIE-BSL booking for nearly 1300 CHF and he's flying Niki from ZRH for around 80 Euros oneway.

Guess what, in the next press release SWISS is going to complain about LCCs! I tell you something. Since easyJet is in BSL not a single flight was cancelled and they are very punctual.

Sorry just needed to vent a little bit!

RJ100
none
 
SQ7345
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:03 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:35 am

well RJ100, i fully understand you!
three possibilities for the big thing to be announced:
1. cancel all flights ex LH / LFSB), France">BSL
2. moving HDQ to ZRH
3. LH will take over
now if you want to hear my choice: i could live with all three.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:23 am

Things cant be that bad.

I read that Swiss is falling just short of break-even this year due to "higher than expected fuel cost".

Also it seems that longhaul might be the only profitable aspect to Swiss.

 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:45 am

Hi SQ7345

It would be the best if they would completely leave BSL like you have said. The routes that they serve today will all be taken over by foreign carriers and would generate more pax than SWISS carries today. Especially Austrian Airlines which said that they would immediately start flights to BSL if SWISS would cut BSL-VIE, and this route would give great opportunities for BSL travellers to eastern Europe.

@FLYYUL: Yes last year it was due to SARS, this year due to high fuel prices and next year because of the LCCs...they will always find a reason to blame others. And that LX longhaul is profitable is new to me. They have full planes but need to sell most tickets abroad for low prices because the Swiss home market is too small.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:51 am

RJ100,

LX is a network carrier. It can advertize say YUL-Karachi via ZRH, and capatalize on global demand versus pure local demand.

I remember reading that LX longhaul is the only saving grace of the company.

 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:01 am

Yes it can capitalize on global demand. But people prefer direct flights so they only fly via ZRH if the price is low enough. I think SWISS could do very well on longhaul if they would concentrate on routes that have their own market (i.e.ZRH-JFK) or where they can generate high yields (also with transfer pax), i.e. ZRH-Africa.
But as soon as they sell HAM-ZRH-Rio for 650 CHF they will lose money. And at the moment their longhaul fleet is still too big. Too big for a niche carrier and too big for a local longhaul airline.

I know that there are different opinions though...

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:16 am

Perhaps the network is too large.

But it seems as if North America is pretty solid, and anything to India/Middle East/Asia is a lock.

 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:51 am

When I was flying for SWISS I remember some of our routes were FULL FULL FULL. Those routes no longer exists.

I do not know the fares and yields on those routes, but a full SB-20 from ZRH-VCE or FLR-SB), France">BSL or FLR-ZRH (yes, including C-Class pax) must have been earning money. Yet those routes no longer exist.

Last summer I flew probably 15-20 times ZRH-VCE and the plane never had less than 40 pax. This route no longer exists as far as I am aware.

This would correspond with what RJ-100 said. Also, the arrogance he describes is totally believable. There are many nice and many professional people at SWISS, both ex-Crossair and ex-Swissair, but some of them still feel that they are doing the customer a service and the customer should be happy, rather than them being happy that they have customers!

In this business we live for the pax, not the other way around.

I still hope they make it!
smrtrthnu
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:28 am

I think Swiss has a better chance globally.

Switzerland is a very international market, and they should market and exhaust the numerous possibilities of ZRH and especially GVA.

 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:02 pm


Hi!

First of all I would like to say that SWISS refusing to be part of OneWorld was quite disapointing, but I still believe that SWISS have good market to survive and keep going, maybe not in the same way has Swissair but they have a niche to work out. I think they did good cutting some routes but I don't know if that's enough, US market looks like FLYYUL said quite solid, I flew LAX/ZRH last December and the plane was full, I have a friend that flew from LIS to GVA and the plane was full, SWISS dropped 1 flight to LIS in Winter Timetable but now they came back again in the summer, so I really don't understand what's going on there. But for God's sake I hope they don't join with LH, then it would be the end of SWISS, and I don't want to accept that! Anyway I'll be flying SWISS from LIS to GVA next September, at least I'll give my dimes to them!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:41 pm

There are lot of loyal people and companies in Switzerland...
Our company could save a lot of money by using other airlines but still we book thousands of pax on SWISS because we want to see them survive. And as I said above, we never get low fares, London is always around 800 Francs, every other destination out of Basel is between 1200 and 1600 Francs- in economy class.

I cooled down a little bit but I just think if they have some pax aboard they should fly. It's just not the way you treat your passengers and customers.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
rojo
Posts: 2256
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:10 pm

RJ100:

I understand your anger. I have seen with my own eyes how LX is doing out of BSL. They have been advertising their flights from BSL to many cities using SAAB 2000's and ERJ145's. They even have some brochures that you can get at EuroAirport with the new flights they have been adding. Most of the passengers using these flights are from the pharmaceuticals, so I wonder why are they cancelling the mid day flights?? I have seen those flights going with 20 to 30 people.

On most of my flights LHR-BSL-LHR I end up seating next to people working for Novartis, Syngenta, Roche, etc. and those seats are quite expensive, since most of them are booked one or two days in advance. Just recently the company I work for booked me the mid day flight BSL-LHR. This was done 1 day in advance, so they ended up paying a "B" fare. As usual, my plans suddenly changed because of an unschedule meeting. I phoned LX to see if I could change my flight (even paying the difference in fare) and the answer was NO. Your ticket does not allow changes, it is a "BSWISSUK" fare. I reply to him that the ticket cost GBP 400 (pounds) and it does not allow changes??? He answered: well, those are the rules, if you miss the flight you will have to get a new ticket. I was shocked!! With GBP 400 I can buy a roundtrip ticket to the USA...
But the company is loyal to LX, so I always end up flying with them...
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:46 pm

Rojo, that's a scandal. But it doesn't surprise me anymore...
I know that flights are well booked from BSL but they always say they don't make profits. Every other airline would make profits on these routes...
It is very sad but a lot of people wish that SWISS is leaving BSL completely because it makes no sense to fly routes out of BSL when LX doesn't really want to fly these routes and cuts midday flights during certain weeks. It would be better to attract foreign carriers that are interested in those routes and which are promoting these routes well enough.

BTW, did you know that BA takes over the BSL-LHR route starting in October?

Best regards,
RJ100

none
 
rojo
Posts: 2256
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:51 pm

BTW, did you know that BA takes over the BSL-LHR route starting in October?

Yes, I read about it back in June. I guess LX does not want to have any more Airbus planes flying to BSL and concentrate on RJ and Turboprops. The good news are that LX is starting flights to LCY with the same schedules they have to LHR. The only problem is that they will be using the SAAB 2000's. Just because of the airplane type I will prefer to fly BA from LHR, although LCY is more convenient. Additionally, I am an AAdvantage customer, and thanks to their decision of not joining OneWorld, none of my flights count towards elite status and no business class check-in is available when flying Y...

I would like to see AF flying BSL-LHR. At least it will give BA some competition now that the pharmaceutical companies (loyal to LX) will only get an LX codeshare flight operated by BA...
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:38 pm

Yes, SWISS starts LH / LFSB), France">BSL-LCY on August 30. I don't think that AF will start LH / LFSB), France">BSL-LHR as they are concentating on Paris and Lyon and easyJet will increase capacity on LH / LFSB), France">BSL-London too in the near future...

BTW, some of the pharmaceuticals have agreements with BA. Novartis for instance is booking most longhaul pax on LH and BA.

Cheers,
RJ100

P.S.: Whenever you're in LH / LFSB), France">BSL and you are bored drop me a mail.
none
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:42 pm

Does someone have more information on what is happening with the Swiss credit cards? They seem to have first problems with the banks at the moment, not getting credits etc.

In the meantime Swiss officials and the aviation authorities say "there is absolutely no danger Swiss needs to shut down in the near future". The situation looks like in summer 2001...

Banks not giving credits to Swiss anymore is definitely not a good sign and for the first time I am really frightened that something is happening in the near future. Does someone of you have more information on the credit card issue?

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:16 am

What a bull***t! It's not about banks not giving credits to LX anymore, it's only and purely the manufacturing of the plastic cards are no longer done in Switzerland!

 Pissed  Pissed
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:25 am

Are you sure? It sounded more like banks not giving credits to Swiss so they needed to find other banks (in Iceland btw...).

Some more info would be appreciated as the newspaper reports were unclear.
BTW, keep cool. It's not good to get angry when its so hot outside Big grin

RJ100  Big grin
none
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:33 am

RJ100, I didn't get angry because of you, it just made me mad to see how quickly rumours can spread - fatal rumours!

The person I'm living with since more than a decade is working in the company manufacturing the plastic cards hence I know quite a bit of the story...

Something completely different: MD11 ex HB-IWC has landed in ZRH as N626FE in ex Swiss-c/s! Should stay for only a day or two, so get ready...
 
aviationmaster
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 3:47 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:41 am

From the way things work in Switzerland it will take 30 groundings before realizing that it's time to change. I guess many haven't learnt from the SR grounding back in '01.

If the airline goes under (which I hope it doesn't), then the Govt. should leave it as it is and support the smaller Swiss airlines rather than creating another national airline. If SWISS gets acquired by LH, then it will be only a matter of time before you hear the politicians and common Swiss complaining about how they have to change planes in Frankfurt, Munich, London or Paris in order to get to New York or any other long haul destination.
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:48 am

Basically my words, AviationMaster! I've always stated that when politicians start to involve themselves into aviation, disasters are the result!
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:13 am

Thx for the info Unique.

I have read the newspaper article a few times but still don't understand what the problem is with the credit cards. I know that they write a lot of bullshit. Any way I don't really have a good feeling. Something's going to happen in the next few weeks...

Regards and happy August 1st  Smile

RJ100
none
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:25 am

RJ100, I bet the article was edited by Sepp Moser...

Happy National Day to you, too!
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:46 am

none
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:07 am

How did you know?

Because he called the company my girlfriend is working, seeking more info about the whole thing. He was told the way it is but he refused to accept and stated to write the story his way as he heard different from others and he knows the truth, bla bla bla...
 
jbangert
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 2:35 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:58 am

I can well understand RJ100's frustrations. Basle and Geneva are again feeling the drawbacks of SWISS' Unique focus on ZRH, still dreaming of an intercontinental hub there.
In many instances where SWISS discontinued serving a destination from e.g. GVA, they were replaced, sooner or later, by another company: AF for Bordeaux and Toulouse, BA for LCY, FlyBaboo for Lugano, and soon EZ for Alicante, Berlin and Budapest, just to cite a few! Needless to say, the gates SWISS surrendered to BA when they were chasing a OneWorld membership will ultimately mean the discontinuation of 4 daily GVA flights to LHR, leaving service from ZRH unaffected.
I realize that certain destinations that used to be served by SWISS from Swiss airports were not profitable, however, I fail to understand their discontinuation of apparently profitable flights out of GVA -see LCY for example! (and LH / LFSB), France">BSL).
Certainly, at this point where the vast majority of SWISS' European destinations from GVA require a transit in ZRH, I will fly non-stop wherever another airline operates the sector (e.g. BRU, AMS, Milan, FRK, Dusseldorf, Vienna, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo, Warsaw). As a consequence of SWISS' disservice from GVA, I may chose to accumulate frequent flyer miles with AF, BA or LH rather than with SWISS, after all.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:37 am

Unique: It seems like Sepp Moser is really writing a lot of bullshit. Unfortunately the newspapers are printing everything (especially during summer holiday). But I also think that SWISS' communication is not really good. They could clear up some rumours quick but don't do it...

Jbangert: Agree with you. I would like to support SWISS. But how can I do? If I see them complaining about GVA and BSL and see them cutting "unprofitable" flights and just some weeks later other airlines are opening this route I cannot take them serious anymore...

It's really sad.

RJ100
none
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:26 pm


Hi!

It's good to see in this topic the involvement of our fellow swiss and that's what I like it here, sometimes we can understand better how things go in certain countries when we see the nationals talking about it!!!!
Now it looks to me that things got worst in SWISS just after a few months, I remember that when SWISS accepted to be part of OneWorld most of us were happy and expected a nice turnaround of SWISS latter. What I see now is that looks that SWISS is again in the pits. I read an article in the latest Airways magazine about ZRH and what they said was not that good, looks that ZRH is slowly dying has a major european hub and beeing more and more a regional hub, for me that is sad and it looks that it's still reflection of the SR dead.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:09 pm

looks that ZRH is slowly dying has a major european hub and being more and more a regional hub

That's not only because the collapse of SR, it's mainly because our politicians are weak and let themselves be cheated by Germany!

Example: Yesterday Saturday, 31st July, the acceptance rate for landing aircraft was low because of non-ILS approaches dictated by Germany, resulting in bigger separation, creating inbound delays. Most of the aircraft couldn't catch up the delay and their departures were also late, resulting in the more or less same amount of delays when coming back to ZRH. Short haul flights with several legs were considerably affected but also long haul flights as they had to wait for most of the connecting passengers.

Especially Swiss International suffered from this and didn't recover until the early evening when the dictation had to be implemented again, creating another low acceptance rate.

Both the airport as well as the biggest carrier at ZRH, Swiss International, suffer from politics.

Weird...!
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:38 pm

Some other RUMOURS can be found in today's Sunday press. They claim to know an internal e-mail from SWISS which says that the new system does not work. Earnings are too low while costs are rising (fuel costs etc.). Not sure if this is true but the press says SWISS is losing 21 Mio. CHF per month, therefore they need to reduce costs by 8%. Obviously they are considering following actions to lower costs:

-cutting 1000 jobs (won't work because of the unions)
-outsourcing the regional fleet and reducing wages for regional crews (won't work because of the unions)
-moving HQ from BSL to ZRH (stupid because it would raise costs;they own the buildings in BSL while they would need to rent expensive room in ZRH...)
-cutting ALL flights ex BSL AND GVA, only route left in GVA would be GVA-ZRH

Again, these are just rumours. But if only half of it is true...

RJ100
none
 
SQ7345
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:03 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:22 pm

Unique:
Don't really understand your trouble with the politicians. Because of these people we still have an Airline that is flying and we have Switzerland's biggest Airport that still works! Without the CHF 2 BN loan granted from the politicians neither Swiss nor Unique would exist as they do at present time.
Just because you believe Mr Leuenberger was cheated this may not correspond to the thruth.
What so typical in Switzerland is that some people accept that politicans close down a good Airline like Crossair to creat Swiss, that politicians save thousands of jobs and keep Unique going. But when politicans do something against Swiss or Unique they have trouble to accept it and feel cheated.
Once this attitude changes, Switzerland will be on the right track for a strong and solid Airline including Unique as this country's biggest airport.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:23 am

The rumours become real...

The SWISS unions today confirmed that CEO Franz has told them his plans to concentrate on Zurich and to shut down Geneva completely, while in Basel they cut everything but two destinations (LCY and BRU which will be operated by Crossair Europe's two Saab 2000).
The plans also include the complete withdraw of the ex-Crossair fleet (Erj-145, Avros RJ-85, Avro RJ-100).

I feel angry, sad and embarassed at the same time. Only thing that I can say is that someone please forbids them to call themselves SWISS International Airlines and to use the Swiss flag.

RJ100
none
 
ChrisZRH
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 7:09 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:31 am

cutting all flights? are you sure? their just getting deeper into the mud....damn.... i so wish them all the best
Christian Galliker - AirTeamImages
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:37 am

Yes,the plan is to cut all the flights and was confirmed by the unions and Swiss TV. Two of Europes most prosperous economical areas will be completely left out by Swiss in the future.

Probably they are really deep in the mud like you have said...

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:25 am

They are definitely going down. Giving up GVA will be the slit in the throat for them. Geneva is home to major int'l organizations, notably the Red Cross/Crescent and a major tourist destination (the Alps-need I say more?), as well as also having Grenoble in it's catchment area, so why are they giving up all the potential profits for them? GVA could be a cash cow for LX.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:28 am

that politicians save thousands of jobs and keep Unique going

SQ7345, ZRH Airport did not get a single cent from the Government. It survived because they have cut jobs, cut wages and did some clever movements with financial loans abroad.

But when politicans do something against Swiss or Unique...

So you apparently agree! I just don't understand why the own government is working against their own airline. Oh yes, sorry, I forgot: 1000 poor citizens in southern germany need their noise-free mornings and evenings why 200000 citizens living south and east of the airport apparently don't mean anything to their own government. But that's politics...
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 am

The closure of GVA and BSL will be a huge blow to this airline. I would say that Swiss is without a doubt the worst-managed airline in the world right now. They're basically dumping what could be lucrative niche markets and focus cities.

A radical change needs to happen. Switzerland is going to need a new network carrier to replace LX.

-WGW2707
 
aviationmaster
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 3:47 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:20 am

Those are some depressing news  Sad So much for a so called "national airline"...
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:38 pm

First of all, being a Belgian (and certainly with a login name like mine) I know how easy it is to think I act out of revenge, yet I would like to state I have no joy whatsoever in seeing Swiss slowly sinking deeper in the mud every day....

This being said, I can't say all this news comes as a surprise to me: after all, SWISS was oversized right from the start.

I know some will say Swissair was even bigger and was once highly profitable, yet you have to remember SWISS is not Swissair. During the last years of SR and even more now, European skies suffer from overcapacity, so in fact the bankruptcy of SR and SN(1) -even if caused mainly by managerial failures I have to admit- should have been a clear signal simply refunding and rebranding the 2 defunct carriers would not do the trick.

Although the Hunter Strategy, which made SR take significant stakes in Sabena, AOM and other airlines in Europe certainly increased the cash drain in Zurich, fact remains that SR (the airline operations I mean, so without all its airline related business) wasn't profitable either for the last few years of its existence. However, for one reason or the other, most Swiss actually believed SR ultimately went belly up because of its foreign participations and commitments to loss making airlines like Sabena, AOM, Air Lib etc. rather than its own managerial network mistakes. Thus the idea any new-SR without these deadweights at its feet would do well again, was born and LX was created.

Facts so far have proved this to be a completely wrong strategy.

Rather than continuously announcing new network cuts, accept and then refuse membership of OneWorld, have constant changes in management and in-flight service concepts (basically each time a new devastating financial report has to be published), LX should for once and for all make up its mind what kind of airline they want to become and stick to that. No matter what decision they take, it would certainly save them a lot of money and at least allow the company to gain some momentum, something it lacks so far.

I have said it before and at the risk of being called an idiot and whatever else you can imagine I will say it again, LX in my view has to shape itself in a kind of SN or TP look-a-like with 3 basic pillars:

1) regional operations:
thanks to the geographic situation, traveling around in Switzerland can take quite a lot of time unless done by air, so this opens up some opportunities for selected regional flights from regional Swiss airports like Basel and Lugano... Mind you: regional flights mean short haul, so there is no need to start dreaming of BSL-EWR flights like in the past. BSL-LCY for instance would be the foremost limit.

2) European operations:
these can run from GVA and ZRH. However, care has to be undertaken not to build a second hub in GVA, competing with the main hub operations in ZRH, so only profitable point-to-point links would be acceptable from GVA. What destinations are served, I really can not say: LX should have to carefully study their pax revenue to see if for instance a GVA-MAD flight makes sense or not; If it does, keep it; if not, drop it asap. It would probably lead LX to operate only a handful of destinations itself. For the rest, LX may have codeshares to the other places, rather than compete against IB for instance on that MAD flight.

3) Intercontinental operations:
This is where most cuts should be made. They should stick with high yield routes only even if it means dropping some prestigious routes. Since the local Swiss market is too small to support daily intercontinental flights, LX has to set on transfer pax too to make their long haul flights profitable. Obviously, there is no gain from trying to compete against network carriers like BA, LX, AF with multiple daily flights to very common places LX serves only daily at best: you will never be able to attract time sensitive (and high yield) customers and will be stuck with the low fare transfer pax, thus making it virtually impossible to run these flights profitable (especially from a country with such high labour costs like Switzerland). LX should take an example at TP and SN and turn itself into a niche long haul specialist (TP for Brazil, SN for Central and West Africa) rather than try to serve a few cities on each continent with not too good frequencies like they are doing now. This would allow them to have higher ticket fares, be able to more easily attract transfer pax, and get away with less convenient flight schedules. Of course, finding a niche market is about the most difficult thing there is in any business and I really doubt there is one left for LX, but I hope so, since otherwise their long haul operations are doomed and thus ultimately the airline itself.


[Edited 2004-08-02 10:44:34]
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:48 pm


Hi!

If SWISS is closing down GVA that's indeed very sad news. I would understand that some flights from GVA and even from ZRH are not that reliable but closing for good that's bad for the french part of Switzerland and I think it's a bad strategy for SWISS, I'm sure they had some profitable flights from there, for example LIS!
I don't know, I really don't know!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:52 pm

What I don't understand is that BSL airport (and I'm sure the same goes for GVA) have already confirmations by airlines (such as Austrian, Iberia, KLM) that they would immediately start operations to BSL (sure they will increase capacity to GVA) if Swiss would give up the route.

It's just weird. Swiss gives up flights others can operate with success.

RJ100
none
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:05 pm


Hi RJ100!

yes you're absolutely right! SWISS giving up LIS will make TAP very happy and I'm sure they'll thank deeply to SWISS regarding that. GVA and the canton de Vaud is one of the places with more portuguese emigrants!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: Any Good News At Swiss?

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:15 pm

Indeed RJ100, that may sound a bit strange, but don't forget other airlines would start serving BSL from their main hub. I am sure you know it is always cheaper to serve any regional destination from a main hub then it is for a competing airline to do the reverse from that regional airport. If LX wants to compete against IB, KL etc on the routes to their main hubs, they'd either have to have a hub at BSL too (for which there clearly is no longer sufficient pax demand) or they would have to position a plane to BSL for that flight or series of flights each time!
LX might of course also plan rotations like ZRH-AMS-BSL-AMS-ZRH, to avoid having to position a plane to BSL for the AMS flight, but it remains to be seen if operating a less then ideal (way to big) A320 on the BSL-AMS route would be offset by the savings made by not having to position a regional jet to BSL.
In any case, it would increase the costs and already labour costs are amongst the highest of Europe in Switzerland. Combine this with the fact LX uses more staff then their competitors on similar airplanes (for instance LX has 3 cabin attendants on their ARJ compared to only 2 at SN, yet it is SN which won the Skytrack excellence award for best airline Europe in 2004) and you easily see why LX can not operate profitably where others can.