N839MH
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Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:33 pm

With just a few weeks before the "new" Delta is announced, the RUMORS are soaring.

Here in DFW the rumors are from Delta might replace routes currently served by the Replacement Jets (RJ's) with flight time over 2.5 hours with mainline jets.....

DFW mainline will drop anywhere from 9-20 more mainline flights. Currently aprox 50 mainline flights.....

but the best rumors now are......

Delta will ground the MD90's which would be a major hurt to DFW, DFW
is the mtc base for the 90's.....

And finally for now rumors say the Pilot & F/A bases at DFW will close by early 2005.

Again, these are just rumors and until the curtain raises and we all find out!
Solodude!
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:28 pm

I hope they dont dont ground the MD-90's unless they really need to ground them for financial reasons. The MD-90 is a beautiful aircraft.

-Delta767300ER
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:15 am

I hope they dont dont ground the MD-90's unless they really need to ground them for financial reasons. The MD-90 is a beautiful aircraft.

DL has six narrowbodies in the mainline fleet alone. I'm sure they'd love to consolidate that fleet. After all, there are only 16 MD-90s (I think) versus 70 738s, and a greater number of MD-88s. That being said, I would miss them if they left. I would definitly get in a pleasure trip in on them before they are retired, I've never been on one and they are very rare.
 
deltadude8
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:16 am

From what I get from DL is also the MD90 is quite efficient...The only reason to ground it would be to gain fleet comonality...Is that DL's thinking behind this?
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:24 am

I'd hate to see them go but, if true, is it possible that the airline has a buyer interested in the whole fleet ? It could mean a quick capacity adjustment and cash infusion all at the same time.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
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Bruce
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:26 am

What is this about a "new" Delta??? did I miss somthing??

bruce
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SafetyDude
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:40 am

With just a few weeks before the "new" Delta is announced, the RUMORS are soaring.
The new Delta, as in the new president and modified widget?  Big grin

And finally for now rumors say the Pilot & F/A bases at DFW will close by early 2005.
So much for all of the promotions that DL was running about flying to DFW.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:47 am

I've heard the exact opposite: that the MD90s are a mechanic's nightmare and break down frequently. I flew one from DFW to SNA and I know the plane in the gate next to me was encountering a "mechnical" delay.

Good for Delta for starting to streamline the fleet, regardless of a "beautiful" plane or not, beauty doesn't make passengers pay more for a flight.

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
N839MH
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:59 am

I believe if Delta were to ground the MD90's, it is soley based on downsizing the number of different aircraft in the fleet.
Solodude!
 
Lono
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:02 am

Rumors with DL employees is that DFW is indeed being considered for another round of "leveling"..
Not good.... not good...
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ssides
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:04 am

If DL reduced DFW to that level, I'm sure we'll see AirTran come in and really make a push to expand.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
SESGDL
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:04 am

"Here in DFW the rumors are from Delta might replace routes currently served by the Replacement Jets (RJ's) with flight time over 2.5 hours with mainline jets.....

DFW mainline will drop anywhere from 9-20 more mainline flights. Currently aprox 50 mainline flights....."

I don't see how that would be possible, because DL mainline doesn't operate any routes under 2.5 hours that aren't mainline except for DFW-OAK, and DFW-SNA and DFW-ONT. I know that DFW-ATL will stay with 14 daily mainline flights. So where would more mainline cuts come from? DFW-DCA will likely go mainline again as will DFW-PBI. That'd be mainline increases, not cuts. I'm extremely excited to see what the "new" Delta will be like.

Jeremy
 
captaingomes
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:05 am

the MD90s are a mechanic's nightmare and break down frequently

Maybe Jetsgo will take a few off their hands? They like keeping their maintenance staff busy over there.  Big grin
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:13 am

Delta flies DFW-RDU with RJ.. is that up for mainline upgrade?
Aiming High and going far..
 
bmacleod
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:19 am

Was Delta the sole MD-90 customer? Maybe SAS and China Airlines ordered a few as well...

Maybe Jetsgo will take a few off their hands?

I noticed the Jetsgo livery is quite similar to Delta's Song livery.


[Edited 2004-07-24 19:35:40]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
LRGT
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:28 am

Could FL have given them an offer they cannot refuse? FL has been short on airplanes recently even with their new 737s coming in.

Why else would they sell unless they really needed $$$? They still have 50x 737-200s around! The 90 is *VERY* fuel efficient and I could even see it being used for Song if they need to still grow.

In regards to fleet commonality, how much different is it than an MD-88 other than the engines from an MX standpoint?
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
L.1011
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:36 am

In theory, placing the 90s in Song service would have made more sense than the 757s, knowing what we know now. But, with Leo Moron's grandiose plans for Song, 16 planes wassn't enough. And now, the 757s have been upgraded and it'd create major inconsistancies in the mainline fleet and cost more to upgrade the 90s.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:43 am

Aviation Week & Space Technology recently had an interview with Sr. VP-COO Joe Kolshak.

One of the things mentioned was that carrier must simplify its fleet. DL has something like 12 different types of aircraft including sub fleets, that will likely be reduced down to 3-4 in the coming years.

He specifically mentioned he would like to see a single domestic narrowbody fleet, plus a couple widebody types for domestic and international service.

If one takes these comments at faces value, it could be the future Delta might be built around the 737NG, 757/767 familes.





From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jeckPDX
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:57 am

Lrgt: The MD-90 has greater differences between itself and the MD-88 other than just engines. While they might superficially resemble each other, they are very different aircarft.

Why must another carrier bore us with a 737NG fleet. I take the -90 over a 737 any day! I know it financially makes sense but I can dream!

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
whitehatter
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:32 am

The major issue will be the V-2500 engines. For a small pool of 16 aircraft it means that mechanics need to be trained and certified, spares kept and all the rest.

Duplication of engine types is a cost that can be reasonably cut, and engines are the big ticket item.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:21 am

Could FL have given them an offer they cannot refuse? FL has been short on airplanes recently even with their new 737s coming in.


An offer for what? The MD-90s?

At some point, there may have been a large amount of commonality between the MD-90 and the MD-95, but Boeing took care of that very early on.

N
 
LMP737
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:37 am

Lrgt:

Along with the engines the MD-90 has different electrical system and hydraulically powered elevators. Then there's the different vertical tail fin cap, different flap fairing's and the MD-90 is five feet longer.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
POSITIVE RATE
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MD-90

Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:37 pm

"Was Delta the sole MD-90 customer? Maybe SAS and China Airlines ordered a few as well..."

I believe Saudia Airlines have some too. And didn't Reno Air used to operate some, or were they MD-88's?
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:44 pm

Yep.. Reno had them.. Even American used them for a bit after the purchase.. Remember these beauties?


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ba319-131
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:05 pm

Delta are in big trouble,unless they sort things quick,they will visit C11,on to the MD-90.

Given the small fleet number,they are just a cost unit,the sooner they get rid of them the better.

Yes,the 772 fleet is smaller,but they are needed for long haul inc NRT flights MD-90 can be replaced by 737 & MD-80 aircraft.
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SESGDL
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:33 pm

"One of the things mentioned was that carrier must simplify its fleet. DL has something like 12 different types of aircraft including sub fleets, that will likely be reduced down to 3-4 in the coming years."

Well Delta can either dream on or downsize to be a fraction of what they are today. That 3-4 fleet type idea isn't happening, the airlines simply don't have the money, and by the time they do the 757 will be old. Plus, the MD-88s aren't going anywhere, and DL hasn't the money to order 120+ aircraft, so I'm not too worried.

Jeremy
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:48 pm

That 3-4 fleet type idea isn't happening, the airlines simply don't have the money, and by the time they do the 757 will be old. Plus, the MD-88s aren't going anywhere, and DL hasn't the money to order 120+ aircraft, so I'm not too worried

DL currently has 6 narrow-bodies, I'd say picking up 15 738s makes more sense than keeping 15 MD-90s around.
 
deltadude8
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:06 pm

But the fact is ...DL doesnt have the spare cash (or so they say) to pick up 16 new 737's...The MD90s by the way from a customer standpoint as well as the MD80's are very friendly...VERY Quiet ecspecially to us up in FC...But I guess the MD80's will do for me in MCI...Thank god the 738's have been moved around...(although the all coach (shuttle) aircraft they gave us for a while were really really nice for coach seats...I didnt mind swapping the FC seat for the Shuttle coach seat...I did miss special attention...but the F/A's noted which of us were on FC fares and pampered us a little bit more....)
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:13 am


This would interest AMC Airlines, Onur Air, Freebird, MNG Airlines and others...
Next flight TUN-YUL Tunisair A330-243.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:35 am

The MD90 issue is a very difficult one for DL - with only 16 in the fleet, it does not make much economic sense to keep them, but there is vitually no second hand market for the MD90s. I am sure that if a leasing company made DL a reasonable offer for the entire MD90 fleet, DL would jump at it.....but trying to sell of the 16 MD90s to other carriers on a one by one basis will take years and if buyers could be found, they would not be willing to pay much for the aircraft. Also, DL would more or less be forced to write down the aircraft and take a huge charge on its already gloomy balance sheet if it simply parked the MD90 aircraft. As you probably know, DL has sold off its next 11 738s - the aircraft will be delivered to DL and immediately transfered to a (UK based?) leasing company; I am sure DL would have loved to keep the new 738s and sold off the MD90s instead, but the 738s command very good prices while the MD90s have little value on the second hand market.

I think that DL will hold on to the MD90s in the near-term future unless there is another major cutback in mainline flying; one rumor suggests that DL plans to use more regional jets (and more or less bringing the DFW hub to end) while other rumors suggest that DL will cut back on the use of regional jets which indicates the need for mainline aircraft so its very hard to say what will happen. Also, the future of Song and its 30+ 757s is anything but clear.

DL would like to get to an MD88/738/757/763/764 domestic fleet and a 763ER/777 long-haul fleet - but it will take a lot of money (or a lot of cutbacks) to eliminate the MD90, 732, 733 and 762 from Delta operations.
 
dairbus
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:50 am

Well said Dutchjet. Your post mirrors my opinions exactly. It's all about costs. Even eliminating an aircraft type from the fleet costs money at times.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:30 am

DL has said that if they can reduce turn times and increase utilization, they can "create" an additional 20-30 planes. That would allow for DL to eliminate the MD90, but not have to reduce capacity in any market.

 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Delta To Ground MD90's?

Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:02 am

Maybe SAS could get rid of some 737NGs and augment their huge fleet of 7 MD-90s. Big grin

Love love love those planes. The pilots I have talked to feel the same way. They love the DC-9 and MD-8x, and see the MD-90 as an MD-80 with more... everything, especially power.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo