Zweed
Topic Author
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The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:35 pm

Ryanair changed the whole avation business in Europe. From being something that was reserved for business travellers and occasional vacations to the mediterranen to being a well known and well used thing. Going for a weekend somewhere else in europe is now possible to an affordable price.

Flying, airplanes and everything that comes with it is no longer that exclusive. This has made lots of airline-geeks upset. Their hobby, the thing that they loved is no longer a unique thing they can keep for themselves. Flying a a common thing in the european society today.
In fact the chance is now bigger that a 45 year old taxi driver with 3 kids has more experience from flying than the bloke who stands at the runway writing up registrations and claims to know everything about the industry.

Face it, just because flying is now as common as taking the train, it doesnt make you less worthy, and you dont have to slag ryanair off and other LCC's to feel better. It just makes you look like a fool.
 
by188b
Posts: 549
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:02 pm

Think again 'zweed'

i personally dislike ryanair because of the appalling way i was treated when i travelled with them.

You are right in some respects though, flying has got more 'common' and with it the lowering of standards of airlines. This is perhaps why some airliners.net members dislike Ryanair which afterall is the king of cheap in the aviation industry.
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
pelican
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:24 pm

Ryanair changed the whole aviation business in Europe.
That's a little bit (just a little bit) exaggerated - sounds like a self praise from our beloved O'Leary himself. Actually the fully deregulation of the European airline business in 1997 had a bigger impact of the European air travel then FR.

pelican

 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:49 pm

How could I respect the airline which is breaking law in many countries? Misleading marketing and cheating of their customers has caused many warnings from authorities of different countries. They have been in courthouses many times and will be in the future as well...

The way how Ryanair treats their passengers... If it would be possible to pack people in the LD3 containers and load them to aircraft I'm sure Ryanair would do that.

The arrogant behaviour of the management... Unbelievable.

It is true that their prices are low but I really hate the way how Ryanair have achieved those. LCCs are great, I'm not against them in general. It is great that travelling is now possible also people who haven't been able to do it before.

I just cant bear people who break the law and not airlines either. Therefore I'm not going to use Ryanair ever...period.

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
geoffm
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So

Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:41 pm

FinnWings, be careful stating mostly unproven allegations like that, it could land you in court!

The times I have flown Ryanair, they have landed me safely at my destination, with my luggage, on time, with friendly service, and at a cheap price. What more could you want? Compare that to full cost airlines which have sent my baggage via Texas, delayed me by hours, sneered at by oh-so-high-and-mighty tarty flight attendants whose biggest fear is breaking their fingernails, and charged a fortune for daring to travel on a day with the letter A in it. Oh, I've had some good flights too, but you always remember the bad ones. Compare that to something like 30 LCC flights where I've never had a bad experience with the one exception of being nearly a whole hour late (EZY).

What is worse about LCC-bashing is many of these people have never actually flown the airline in question. How an earth can you judge something without trying it?

Grrr.

Geoff M.
 
Jaspike
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:47 pm

What is worse about LCC-bashing is many of these people have never actually flown the airline in question. How an earth can you judge something without trying it?
Exactly.. I flew with Ryanair, and had no problems at all. I'd fly with them again. And I don't care what O'Leary says, from a passenger's point of view, it doesn't matter. It's not like he's on each flight being arrogant to passengers.

Tom
 
JGPH1A
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:53 pm

I would argue that Easyjet has done more to change the UK travel market than Ryanair has done, because Easyjet has always been a much greater threat to the existing national carriers than Ryanair was (except for EI, naturally). Easyjet flies to airports served by other carriers, and provides welcome competition, whereas FR broadly speaking specifically avoids airport where there is anything like competition (except Dublin).

I personally will try to avoid flying FR because of their appalling customer service attitude - I fly U2 10-15 times a year, and they suit me just fine - they aren't perfect, but they'll do.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
LVZXV
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:28 am

Very well said, JGPH1A. I could't agree more. For example, for London-Amsterdam U2 does LGW-AMS, like the big carriers. London-Bilbao they do LGW-BIO, same as BA and IB. FR may do STN-BIQ, which by chance was convenient for me, but they were competing with no one. Is that why FR prefer the smaller airports?

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
ual747den
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:01 am

The thing that I hate to hear about is how everyone hates this Mr. O'Leary guy. Of course this guy is arrogant! He is RICH BEYOND YOUR BELIEF! You will never have the amount of money that this guy has, this guy could buy your house, shit this guy could buy your entire block and not even care. Anyone of you people would love to be him and be able to be as "arrogant" as he is. What has he done wrong? He found a new way to run a successful airline and is doing so better than your beloved BA, what is the problem with that?
I believe the reason that most people bash it is because they do not want to fly FR, can you blame them? Most people do not want to be locked in a tube with trash and that is what airlines like FR and WN attract. I personally HATE to fly WN because of the trashy people that fly and the FA's are loud and annoying, BUT that does not mean that WN is a bad company. They are not bad at all they are one of the best just like FR is in Europe, so don't hate the airline hate the trash that boards!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
LVZXV
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:02 am

Zweed:

Ryanair changed the whole avation business in Europe. From being something that was reserved for business travellers and occasional vacations to the mediterranen to being a well known and well used thing. Going for a weekend somewhere else in europe is now possible to an affordable price.

Flying, airplanes and everything that comes with it is no longer that exclusive. This has made lots of airline-geeks upset. Their hobby, the thing that they loved is no longer a unique thing they can keep for themselves. Flying a a common thing in the european society today.
In fact the chance is now bigger that a 45 year old taxi driver with 3 kids has more experience from flying than the bloke who stands at the runway writing up registrations and claims to know everything about the industry.

Face it, just because flying is now as common as taking the train, it doesnt make you less worthy, and you dont have to slag ryanair off and other LCC's to feel better. It just makes you look like a fool.


Face it, it is all going to end in tears. Not for Easyjet, Volare, and the LCCs that treat you well. But O'Leary's cost cutting and corner cutting will sooner or later land him at the mercy of Murphy. And economic Darwinism will sooner or later separate the wheat from the chaff.

You romanticise Ryanair's achievements too much. They did some good things a few years ago but O'Leary's business practices are questionable at best, illegal at worst. Although FinnWings was not specific in his reply, he is right. FR have broken many laws in many countries, and their selection of airports rarely correspond the the city or even the country advertised: Paris-Beauvais, Toulouse-Carcassonne, Düsseldorf-Niederrhein (deemed illegal by the EU Commission), Brussels-Charleroi, Frankfurt-Hahn, Florence-Pisa etc. etc. Easyjet don't shirk the main airports quite as much as Ryanair. And how many destinations do FR offer out of LGW? Just one, Dublin.

I think you'll find that most members of the forum are very much in favour of the LCC principle. I for one am, with about 40 flights of experience on Debonair, Easyjet, GOL, Ryanair and Volareweb.com. Most of them have been pleasant experiences, but Ryanair and O'Leary have given me and a lot of fellow travellers, some who are also on the forum, cause for suspicion since Day One. And increasingly so, I'm finding them no cheaper than the mainstream carriers, and often more expensive. They are no longer an LCC. They are an LQC (Low Quality Carrier).

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
worldoftui
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:31 am

I do not hate Ryanair as such, but I do dislike the man behind it.
In general, and this is just a preference, I do not generally like the whole LCC experience. For me, its about more than cost. Convenience, ease of airport processing, on-board comfort etc are just as important to me.


Mark
 
planemaker
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:37 am

I always get a good chuckle from the FR and WN bashers!  Big thumbs up Obviously you represent a very small minority. FR and WN's pax numbers grow every year and they make higher profits than the few major carriers that do -- and that is the name of the game!!

In case you "bashers" haven't figured it out, flying today is just another form of transport - pure and simple. Heck, some flights are even shorter than taking the tube from the LHR to Waterloo Stn. - but at least on FR's flights you can buy some food and use the loo!! Big grin Bottom line - a airline seat is just an airline seat. No one buys a ticket for the food - at least I hope not!! Big grin
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
JGPH1A
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:42 am

Re: Is that why FR prefer the smaller airports?

The stated reason is that smaller out-of-the-way airports charge lower landing and handling fees, and no doubt this is true. But I suspish that another good reason is to fly where there's no competition (because very few people actually genuinely want to fly there), and create markets artificially by charging extremely low fares, but still make a profit by cutting service back to a minimum.

It seems to be working for him, we have to credit him with that. Ugly suspicions about safety-related cost-cutting will continue as long as FR keep cutting back - the theory (unproven, I hasten to add) being that if they are taking out the window-blinds and the tray tables, what have they removed where we can't see it ? I hope and trust that this is not the case, after all there are FR employees as well as pax on each of their flights. But there's only so much you can take off the pizza before all you're left with is the box.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Leskova
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:59 am

There are one or two things about Ryanair (and most other LCCs) that I don't like, but for the most part, they're simply far too unpractical for me to use.

Until the end of last year, I lived in a town from where the next airport was Hannover (HAJ), about a one hour drive away: the only LCC there was HLX, Air Berlin had a few City Shuttle routes from there - but not a single destination that was interesting for me.

Then I moved to Munich for a short time and I could have flown Easyjet - I might have actually done that at one point, but the LH fare to LHR was about EUR 60 lower for that specific weekend, so I chose them instead.

Now I've been living in Frankfurt since May, and I could use FR from Hahn - for which I need to take public transport to the Main Train Station (about 10-12 minutes) to then board a bus (EUR 12 for a oneway ticket) to get me to Hahn in something around 1 hour and 45 minutes...

Or, I could just use one of the trains running about every 10 to 15 minutes to get to the airport here in Frankfurt itself, and have one of the widest choices of airlines and destinations you can find...

So, it's either something between 2 and 2 1/2 hours and EUR 24 for Hahn, or about 25-40 minutes (both times obviously depending on the connection at the train station) and EUR 4 for Frankfurt... not a tough call for me.

I'll probably try our FR at some point, but for now, it's just too much of a hassle for me.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
gkirk
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:02 am

I would bet that someone high up in Ryanair reads these forums...
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
planemaker
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:06 am

the theory (unproven, I hasten to add) being that if they are taking out the window-blinds and the tray tables, what have they removed where we can't see it ? I hope and trust that this is not the case, after all there are FR employees as well as pax on each of their flights. But there's only so much you can take off the pizza before all you're left with is the box.

A window blind is obvously NOT the same as a flight control system so the "unproven" theory is ridiculous. Big grin But big deal that he proposes to do away with tables and blinds -- years ago the legacies did away with amenitity kits for Y paxs that only F/J get now (and they are not nearly as good as they use to be!!!!) FR is offering the pax a choice -- if you really want to pay for a lousy meal on a tray then you can always fly BA.  Big thumbs up
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
LRGT
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:23 am

Well, having flown them once, I would say I was happy with everything except the $300US in excess baggage charges! The bags for the two of us were well within VS's limits crossing the pond, but NOT for FR.

If you pack light, you will enjoy FR!


P.S.: I don't think they will ever 'die', but maybe if they start loosing $$$ they can change their routes around a little and raise their fares a little (maybe to $5 o/w LOL)  Smile
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
geoffm
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:26 am

Sammyhostie, it wouldn't be the first time that somebody has ended up in hot water over statements made on a website! All it takes is the wrong person to read it... Had he used the word "alleged" or equivalent, he would have been fine, but some of the things he has said can be deemed libellious. I don't particularly care what he does, nowt to do with me, it was just a friendly heads-up!

Geoff M.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:45 am

maybe because of their cheap corporate identity? desperately needs a change...
If there is a will, there is a way
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:22 am

FinnWings, be careful stating mostly unproven allegations like that, it could land you in court!

I doubt that. It isn't anything secret that they have broke the law when advertising here. Finnish consumer authorities warned the compnay twice as they found out that FR broke marketing rules and that was discussed in the media a lot. It is called misleading marketing... Like LVZXV stated above, they have broke the same rules in many countries.

I well understand if someone dislike or like FR or any other airline. People prefer different things and thats only good! Wouldn't it be awful if all people would like same things? FR is cheap, safe and punctual airline so if those are the most important reasons for you when choosing an airline I very well understand if you find FR very good. That is their market segment...

However, I wan't a little bit luxury from my airline even when travelling on economy and therefore I don't prefer LCCs and for me FR is the worst LCC. In my opinion trip should be pleasant and comfortable experience but that is just my opinion and I understand very well if someone disagree...

Overall, it is only good for consumers and aviation industry that we have LCCs and major airlines.

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
airtrainer
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So

Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:26 am

Well, I lost my job a few months ago and just said "good bye" to all my travel plans since that time. Hopefully I was lucky enough to find a daytrip CRL-BGY-CRL last month for exactly €30.93 incl all taxes. I would surely think different if I had a lot of money to spend, but in my case I can just say thank you Ryanair. Oh, and by the way, I had a very pleasent flight and was well treated by the crew, so yes I will surely try to fly with them again.

Regards.

Jef
Life is short : eat dessert first !
 
planemaker
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:07 am

FR broke marketing rules and that was discussed in the media a lot. It is called misleading marketing...

The only reason such a big deal was made about it in the media is because the precious "flag carriers" did not like having competition from the little Irish carrier.  Big thumbs up As Frank said above, Frankfurt-Hahn or Frankfurt-Main, the pax has a choice -- which he/she didn't have before. Same with Barcelona - there is Barcelona-Girona and Barcelona-Reus -- if time is not the major concern both airports are only about 1 hr by bus from Barcelona -- big deal! Does Iberia and BA like it, of course not. They would rather you not know that there is a cheaper option! The ONLY reason why the major airlines have some low fares is because of the LCCs!!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:24 am

Planemaker,

I agree with you that now passengers have more choices... sometimes those "secondary" airports might be even closer to the final destinations of passengers than major airports and therefore reduce overall duration of the trip.

However, the misleading marketing problem was that it wasn't clearly visible when FR advertised that they are really flying to those smaller airports, sometimes very far away from the city. Many passengers booked the flights and they didn't see the small print which was hidden somewhere and stated what airport FR really use. Passengers felt that they were cheated and were furious.

Same situations is with all other products as well not only the flights. Customers must clearly know what they are buying without chance for misunderstanding.

Best Regards,
FinnWings

[Edited 2004-07-24 21:25:56]
 
ltbewr
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:37 am

Although I have never used Ryanair, or EasyJet or Southwest, I have used the current generation Frontier (June 1999) and used PeoplExpress several times 1981- 1985, including from EWR-BRU-EWR.
In the USA, some of the LCC's of the past and present often use/used secondary airports in the 'metropolitian' areas to serve that region. JetBlue uses Long Beach instead of LAX, Southwest uses Islip instead of LGA/JFK/EWR (Islip is about 30 miles from the easternmost parts of NYC). Some of the LCC's use major airports, like WN uses LAX, Frontier with DEN or LGA. PeoplExpress used to do the same thing, basing in EWR, which was underutilized in the 1980's and serving smaller cities, airports close to where service would work out and some major airports. One important difference seems that all of these USA based LCC's are/were very careful to specify the true airport, not the 'distant' city like Ryanair does.
The other issue vs Ryanair for A.netters, is that they keep lowering the bar of minimally acceptable service within safety rules and tolarance of pax yet offer unbeatable fares for many. This means that the other airlines also have to cut their service levels to keep their fares competitive. It's like how people want cheaper and cheaper sneakers or clothes, so the manufactures then move their production facilities from the US to Mexico, to Korea, to China, to Vietnam, chasing cheaper and cheaper help. After a time, there is a limit in terms of cost reductions and you start to breach some human ethics. Everybody want cheap fares, but they still want some fairness and to many, Ryanair is being unfair from minimal service, going to way out of the way airports and so on.
 
geoffm
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So

Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:43 am

In the UK the adverts *do* show the airport they serve, albeit in small text. If you book on their website it very clearly states the destination airport (eg Malmo rather than Copenhagen). Was that not the case in Finland?

In fact the law in the UK states that adverts like "50% off! Selected items only", the second part has to be as large as the first part. But all the time shops flout this law by printing the "selected items only" in tiny text. And they get away with it. Is it this aspect which the Finns got heavy handed with (rightly so, too!)?

RE allegations - you made several statements, only a few of which had been substantiated in law, the rest were, with all due respect, still rumours or the like, which was why I used the word "mostly"!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Geoff M.
 
Leskova
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:49 am

Geoffm, FR actually did the same here for a while, advertising Hahn as Frankfurt, Lübeck as Hamburg, Girona as Barcelona...

Didn't last long, though - because German law is also quite clear on that: if you say you're flying from Frankfurt, you had better land in Frankfurt - not and airport that's almost 2 hours away.

This was also the subject of one of the several "meetings" in court that FR and LH, as well as FR and the competition-watch organisations here, have had.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
qantas777
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 7:52 am

RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:12 am

i just hate how common people fly nowadays. I liked it when it was reserved for non-common people.
 
planemaker
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:14 am

Yes, mankind has been on a downhill slope ever since that crazy Henry Ford made automobiles affordable for the "common people!" And then Boeing had to develop the 707 AND the 747 which made it affordable for a lot of the "common people" to start travelling by air! And now the A380 - horrors, up to 555 "common people" in one plane. Something must be done... yes, jet fractional ownership but... but... in a few years affordable air taxis will be available and "common people" will start to using jets too!. Mon Dieu, civilization is ruined!  Nuts
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:24 am

My opposition to Ryanair is based on three points:

1. Dangerous CEO:

Michael O'Leary is clearly a destructive lunatic, a madman who enjoys causing suffering. The policies of his airline seem designed to torment government agencies, torment the competition, and torment the consumer. O'Leary has no respect for the law, no respect for authority and no respect for the basic humanity of those most responsible for his success: his customers. He should be locked away in an institution for the insane and replaced by a mentally stable, competent and caring CEO.

2. Lack Of Respect:

Ryanair's lack of respect is almost mind-boggling. From dehumanizing treatment of passengers (total elimination of virtually all creature comforts, abrasive policies such as banning smokers for life from the airline and chastising persons caught reading magazines during the safety demonstration) to the disrespectful, contemptuous and unprofessional slogans painted on the side of aircraft (such as Arrividerci Alitalia, Auf Wiedersehen Lufthansa), to the insolence displayed to government officials (telling the Belgian government to "f*** off"), the total lack of respect at Ryanair's corporate culture is simply appalling. In addition, Ryanair's baseless and arrogant claims of "liberating customers from high fares" et cetera, ad nauseum, ad infinitum, are groundless and sickening.

3. Gross Illegalities:

Ryanair has repeatedly and deliberately broken the law. From allowing passengers to occupy crew jumpseats and forcing the crew to dangerously occupy lavatories, to accepting illegal subsidies from airport authorities, Ryanair is clearly a company that views laws as an inconvenience. Such an attidude is not acceptable for any business, let alone an airline. When you travel by air you're putting your life into the hands of someone else, someone who should always have full and unconditional respect for all appropriate rules and regulations.

Ryanair however is ultimately headed for bankruptcy, fortunately. O'Learly is getting more and more stupid. His latest plan, to transform Ryanair into what ammounts to a glorified marketing agency that flies passengers for free, is totally unworkable given the route structure Ryanair flies and other considerations. Unless O'Leary is replaced soon, Ryanair will go out of business in a glorious flame, that will symbolize the dawn of a glorious new era for European aviation.

(Ok, I admit that last bit was excessive, perhaps I need to check into the insane asylum at the same time as O'Leary  Laugh out loud )

-WGW2707


 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:38 am

Ryanair claims to be low fares...

compare fares for travel next weekend on just about any route flying at the SAME TIME as any other airline on that same route...

I Bet theres not "Hundreds of pounds" of difference in the air fare...Maybe 10 or 20 pounds.. and that difference is swallowed by time and distance ground travel a reserved seat, changeable ticket and a drink / sandwich.
Basically the difference between a human and an animal.

Ryanair's main contribution to the EU is opening up small rural airports which otherwise wouldnt have much and creating a market where people want to go anywhere they dont care just because they can and it's from a local airport.

When they compare BA from Blackpool to Girona yeah I can guess BA's fare.
but when comparing BA from London to Amsterdam.. it's not quite the same difference.


Why not try going from Cardiff to AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA on Ryanair and see how much that costs ? And your chances of it being fixed if the planes late ?

example:

My home airport is LCY.
I had to goto AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA.


Options:

LHR (approx £100, every hour all day BA / LH one or the other goes)
LGW (Approx £100 BA slightly less)
LCY (Approx £150 LH)
STN (£40 Ryanair)

I go with the LCY.. why... because it would cost me £50 to get to one of the others and take hours of time on the train.

why not Ryan.. 6am start or it's £100 later in the day... it's all about the marketing.


So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:07 pm

WGW2707,

Excellent post and very well said! I agree with you...

Also one reason why Ryanair might have troubles in the future is the changing market. Currently we are living LCC boom, but there is already signs of the ending of these glorious days. LCC bubble will collapse just like happened with IT-industry in the late 90s. The days of excessive growth are over soon as there is already over capacity in LCC market as well. Besides, people seem more prefer "quality LCCs" in the future following more business model like of Jetblue. I believe that will be the growth sector of the future... There will be more LCCs which are between the full service and Ryanair's very basic service concept.

Geoffm:

If you book on their website it very clearly states the destination airport (eg Malmo rather than Copenhagen). Was that not the case in Finland?


Exactly that was the problem... They advertised non-stop flights to Stockholm, but didn't clearly say that the airport is Skavsta which is far away from Stockholm. However, nowadays they have changed advertising and it follows the rules now.

Geoffm:

In fact the law in the UK states that adverts like "50% off! Selected items only", the second part has to be as large as the first part. But all the time shops flout this law by printing the "selected items only" in tiny text. And they get away with it. Is it this aspect which the Finns got heavy handed with (rightly so, too!)?


Yes, indeed... It is true that many shops broke advertising rules quite often, but usually those aren't so harsh offences... By the way, I believe that these advertising rules are pretty much determined by EU nowadays and quite similar in the each country. And that is only a good thing...  Smile

Best Regards,
FinnWings
 
Tasha
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:32 pm

leskova:

"Didn't last long, though - because German law is also quite clear on that: if you say you're flying from Frankfurt, you had better land in Frankfurt - not and airport that's almost 2 hours away."

Exactly right. But just a question to transportation in Germany: When I'm there I generally travel by train as I find Deutsche Bahn to be very reliable, efficient, and comfortable. Granted my trips on DB are generally always in 1st Class which may have something to do with the comfort, but I have rode the ICE in 2nd Class as well and it was nearly as comfortable.

Europe is rather small and most metropolitan areas are easily reached by train in an efficient manner. That said, I can see flying from Basel to Berlin; Frankfurt to London; Oslo to Hamburg... But the flights from Frankfurt to Stuttgart really puzzle me. It takes generally as long or longer getting to the airport early, and flying as it would taking say and ICE train.

The last time I was in Germany I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Hamburg in just under four hours. If I would have flown, I may have saved 30-45 minutes, provided the plane was on time.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
Leskova
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:09 pm

Tasha, in the case of Hahn the problem is that there is no train service there: there are plans, but I guess that it'll be something around 5-10 years minimum before anything happens on that...

For most domestic trips, I'll take the train as well - for example if I visit my parents in Hannover, the flight takes 55 minutes (scheduled time - the real flight is somewhere around 30 minutes)... so with going to the airport about 45 minutes before departure I'm already up to 1:40. To get to the airport from my place takes me about 30 minutes (minimum), so we're up to 2:10... and taking the train from the airport in Hannover to where my parents live takes another 50 minutes, so I'm at 3 hours.

If I take a train (S-Bahn here in Frankfurt and in Hannover, ICE inbetween), the time it takes is, depending on the connection, 3:07 or 3:16.


Somewhat getting back to Ryanair - if Hahn had that train connection, I might actually try it a bit earlier (I hate long bus rides - long, in the case of busses, for me being anything above 30 minutes) - but for now I'll just save myself the hassle.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
LVZXV
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:42 pm

WGW2707:

Very eloquently put! You put your finger on just about every odious trait of Mr. O'Leary. It's funny how his name is almost an anagram of "O'Reily", the cheap-scathe good-for-nothing builder in Fawlty Towers. Watch the series and remember how Stubbs has a point...

XV



[Edited 2004-07-25 16:52:09]
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:28 am

The bags for the two of us were well within VS's limits crossing the pond, but NOT for FR.

Bag limits across the pond are much higher than for any intraEuro carrier (unless your connecting Euroflight is on the same ticket) so nothing special about FR there.


I have flown FR a maybe 15-20 times. I understand how they can attract so many. But in all honesty if the price difference is under £50 and the timetable is convenient I will make a special effort to fly a mainline airline instead. Not because I dislike LCCs, but because they are so cheap (in the bad sense). They shirk on every little thing, and that attitude just rubs me the wrong way.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
planemaker
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:36 am

(... I need to check into the insane asylum...)

Thank you! At least you do have a slight inkling that what you wrote is hysterical and unsubstatiated and without context!  Big thumbs up
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
LVZXV
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RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:37 am

Planemaker:

2 questions:

1. How many times have you flown on Ryanair?
2. How many LCCs do you know(for comparative purposes)?

With any airline you fly on once or twice, all can go extremely well, or equally, so badly you will never give them a second chance. Just a few points about Ryanair, and any airline for that matter:

  • You fly on an airline at a time of day that corresponds to a meal, or in which the duration of the flight is more than say 1h30, then the airline ought to provide you with a meal (free or not). The fact that Ryanair frequently flies with maybe 10 sandwiches in a 189 seat plane (as is often the case on their 737-800s, i.e. there are none left past row 10), is unacceptable. With what they cahrge for them, if they carried more they could probably generate more money (a study last year published in The Times revealed that 7% of Ryanair's revenues is generated by their IFS). It's fine to exclude drinks and meals fromt he ticket price, but at least on U2 or G3, they normally cater for nearly all their passengers, not just a small fraction).


  • What you save in choosing to fly Ryanair you usually end up spending travelling to STN (either via Liverpool St. or airport taxi). The Piccadilly to LHR or the Gatwick Express to LGW are far more convenient for the majority of Londoners, not to mention cheaper.


  • As a passenger you are the airline's responsibility. FR are normally all to ready to shirk their responsibilities to you as their customer. Disabled travellers are poorly catered for by FR and equally, anything happens to you or your bag and the airline will almost without exception place the blame squarely on you and alleviate themselves of any fault or wrongdoing. And that's in tune with the overrall cocky, pedantic, middle-fingered impression O'Leary gives off.


  • "You get what you pay for". Bad attitude, usually masking both arrogance and laziness on the part of the company. It shows a lack of dedication, and indifference towards customers is exactly what drives them away. You don't need an MBA to work that one out.


  • No airline has the right to dupe the bulk of the public who fail to notice or understand the small-print; that is the job of the Legislature. O'Leary consistently portrays himself as blameless in these situations. Bottom line, he just cares about his profits and sees no need for treating his passengers well. For goodness sake, they are making him rich! And unfortunately, for all the passengers deterred by O'Leary's attitude and behaviour towards them, there is an even greater number still dreamy-eyed about the LCC boom who will only learn the hard way that they are being royally conned.


  • Nothing is for free in this world, and perhaps it is only human nature not only to be attracted by Ryanair's "attractive" deals and since we are fallible creatures, to be fooled by them. Yes, you can by a flight on FR for €5 before, twice in fact. But add the taxes, VAT, transport to STN and so forth and you have paid up to 20 times the price of your airfare. You are better off finding a good deal with a mainstream carrier with whom you know exactly how much you have to pay, and where service is better and if something goes wrong, you will receive at least a limited (or in some cases, generous) compensation.
    In the post-9/11 world a lot of people think LCCs are the only affordable way to travel. Wrong. Search and you may be surprised:

    LHR-ARN return w/ SK: £96 (tax inc.)
    STN-VST return w/ FR: £130 (tax exc.)

    LCY-CDG-BIQ return w/ AF: £190 (tax inc.)
    STN-BIQ return w/ FR: £200 (tax exc.)

    I know you can find the opposite but these examples are just to show how you can fly (at convenient times) on the mainstream carriers for less than on some LCCs, notably FR. Last year FR were advertising £460 for STN-BIQ return! That can almost get you to EZE and back!
    Now if any of you have the free time to split hairs or dismantle my argument, I'm not stopping you. Stay within the rules, and go ahead. I can assure you though that the figures I've posted are not made up, and that at the end of the day, you can spend your money however you want. I simply urge you not to waste it in the belief that you are saving.

    XV

  • How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
     
    ssides
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:45 am

    I have flown Ryanair several times, and I must say that I never felt "taken advantage of" or "misled." I knew they flew in and out of STN, and that their airports were far from various city centers. The equivalent $35 fare (including taxes).

    I'll admit, I don't necessarily like O'Leary's general attitude, but if people keep flying Ryanair, then that's their right. Bottom line (just like with Southwest in the US): if you don't like them, then

    DON'T FLY THEM
    "Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
     
    f.pier
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:13 am

    I flew FR a lot of times and I'm going to fly them in september.

    I'm very happy with them from every point of view and I think that all the things you're saying is senseless.
     
    aa757first
    Posts: 3140
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:34 am

    total elimination of virtually all creature comforts

    You're right. But, no one is forcing you to fly Ryan Air. When you fly on Ryan, you know your knees will be shoved into the seat in front of you, the floor will be filed with crumbs, you will be staring at the safety card and the sun will be shining into your eyes.

    as banning smokers for life from the airline

    I think its great they did that.

    disrespectful, contemptuous and unprofessional slogans painted on the side of aircraft (such as Arrividerci Alitalia, Auf Wiedersehen Lufthansa)

    That's a lot like Virgin Atlantic, don't you think? I thought they were pretty funny.

    to the insolence displayed to government officials (telling the Belgian government to "f*** off")

    I don't believe they actually said "f*** off".

    From allowing passengers to occupy crew jumpseats and forcing the crew to dangerously occupy lavatories

    Its not like it is corporate policy to do that. One moronic captain did that and was most likely told "you can resign or be fired".

    to accepting illegal subsidies from airport authorities

    I admit, I haven't read up on the situation, but I don't see why on earth they were illegal. AirTran gets them in ICT and so do many other airlines.

    Ryanair however is ultimately headed for bankruptcy, fortunately.

    So your glad that a single mom working as a CSR at Ryan Air won't have a job?
    That the First Officer with a sick mother will be praying he can find a job with Air France?

    Why do you care so much about them dying? I don't like United, but I don't want them to "go out of business in a glorious flame".

    Usually I agree with you, but I think you are way off the mark on this one.

    AAndrew
     
    kl911
    Posts: 3979
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:48 am

    I'll fly FR whenever it fits in my schedule, or just for a weekend somewhere. I just love the airline, always friendly service onboard, and I've never had a FR flight arriving late. Actually, most of them departed and arrived earlier... It must have been more then 35 flights now with FR. Just don't book connecting flights, and if you do leave atleast 4 hours space between them since they don't refund when you miss the flight. But then, most of the time I pay 0.99 cent per leg.............

    Thanks Ryanair!!!
     
    geoffm
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:12 am

    LVZXV, you asked for it! ;-p

    If I travel on a train for 8 hours, I don't expect to get fed. So I buy something on board or take my own. Which is exactly what most sensible people do on the LCCs. From other threads on A.net, it appears that a lot of semi-long-haul domestic FCC service in the US is without meals as well.

    Next, it costs £12 to get to Gatwick by train and £13.80 to Stansted. Not much difference there. Not much difference in coach prices either I believe. As I said before, LGW or LHR, or for that matter STN, are only convenient if you're in that part of London. LHR is crap from the City, so is LGW. STN is crap for the west end. It's all relative...

    You don't pay any more (if any, I think air tickets are excluded) VAT on Ryanair's tickets than you do BA's. Neither website tells you the airport taxes and security charges until later on in the booking, so no difference there.

    But other than that, I have no problems with your opinions!  Wink/being sarcastic

    Geoff M.
     
    KAUST
    Posts: 605
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:41 am

    Okay now for a stupid question from an ignorant newbie....
    what country operates Ryanair? I am under the impression they are from Ireland? Or are they not?

    KAUST
    "Houston, this is Apollo 8. We are now in Lunar orbit."
     
    ua777222
    Posts: 2987
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:58 am

    I'm not sure where. My sister just flew them and will again. She said it was "WAY SKETCHY!!" but then again if they aren't there for her and serving her when she wakes up and have the food at the right temp. and whatnot she hates them. But she said it had to do with lady who was pregnant and they placed her in the F/A jumpseat when they realized that the normal seat wouldn't work. No worries when she returns from her 3 month trip I'll quiz her and put together an extra long anti-FR post. From what she told me they could have been shut down from their actions. Will update when she returns!

    UA777222

    WN is the way to go when it comes to LCC's but then again all good things fade after time!
    "It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
     
    planemaker
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    RE: The Reason Some A.net Members Hate Ryanair So Much

    Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:24 pm

    Face it, just because flying is now as common as taking the train, it doesnt make you less worthy, and you dont have to slag ryanair off and other LCC's to feel better. It just makes you look like a fool.

    As ZWEED said when he started this post, air travel is transportation -- just like taking a train, it takes you from Point A to Point B. If it wasn't for the security checks, the two are almost virtually the same -- with many airlines you don't even need to talk nor deal with ANY airline employee if you don't want too -- from buying your flight to arriving at your destination city. Just like the train!!

    And as Ssides posted, if you don't like them, then don't fly them! You are entitled not to like MO, but the FR bashing is just childish. Obviously, increasing numbers of pax don't think like you. And judging from FR's steady growth and profits (unlike the major carriers), they don't need your patronage.
    Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein

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