ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:02 am

The WSJ today is reporting that the US and China will allow NW and UA each 7 additional flights per week to China. The agreement will also allow an additional airline to begin service in the near future. AA has already released a statement saying that they will applying for the route. Northwest has said that they will add a flight between Detroit and Guangzhou, being the first US carrier to serve that route. UA will add a daily nonstop between Chicago and Shanghai. Currently US airlines fly a total of 54 flights per week to China, however in the new agreement over the next 6 years US airlines will be allowed 249 weekly flights. The agreement will also allow for US Cargo carriers to open shipping hubs within China.

EDIT: The agreement does not only allow one additional airline, it is actually 5 from each country. I got confused because only ONE US CARGO airline will be able to start serving China later this year, and China will be able to either choose a cargo or passenger airline to begin service to the US. The other 5 pax airlines will be worked in over the next 6 years.
Hope I cleared that up ok....

[Edited 2004-07-25 23:09:23]
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:24 am

Anyone want to guess what airlines we will see on this route.
1) Delta
2) Continental
3) American
4) US Airways
5) Hawaiian
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:33 am

"Anyone want to guess what airlines we will see on this route.
1) Delta
2) Continental
3) American
4) US Airways
5) Hawaiian "

They'll all be bankrupt by then..

my bets are:-

1. Jet Blue
2. Southwest
3. America West aka Lufthansa
4. Sky West
5. Virgin Pacific  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:39 am

With an opportunity like this some LCC's might go for it! This would be an entirely new market for most airlines so why not an LCC. I could see ATA starting service with the L1011........ Wouldn't that be nice!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:47 am

Continental already has an established Pacific & TransPacific route network, loyal pax, and experience, so I can see them more easily filling the additional airline contender slot . . . . . . . if I had to take one of those on the list.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:26 pm

Do you think that serving the U.S.-China market will have a significant positive impact in the U.S. carriers' bottomline? Since China is set to become a major destination for business flyers (and tourists too), flights to/from China could become cash cows for American carriers and, perhaps, that might help them get out of their current bad situation. Any thoughts?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:37 pm

EDDIE,
I think the additional flights will help UA for now. The pacific is a UA stronghold in my opinion, however I think that the idea of allowing 5 additional airlines on that route will not help any airline but rather the consumer. I sure hope that UA keeps up the level of service that they currently offer on Asian routes, its something that we don't see anymore in the airline industry, but I don't think that they will be able to if they are forced to cut fares.
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:51 pm

UAL747DEN, you are very right, that is a very smart and accurate comment. I agree that while the authority to fly to China will help the U.S. carriers to have more pax, the fact that five of them will be competing in the same market (plus the Chinese airlines, plus other airlines from Eastern Asia offering connecting service) will force them to be very aggressive with fares, so that will definitely benefit the consumer more than the airlines.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8590
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To Chin

Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:10 pm

They'll all be bankrupt by then..

CO and AA are doing rather well in comparison to DL and UA. I'd expect both CO and AA to have a very slight loss for the year (they've made quarterly profits) but I think they could be profitable next year. New routes mean new deliveries means new-build 777s  Big thumbs up
 
Carfield
Posts: 2035
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:06 am

I actually think Continental will be a good choice. I flew HKG-EWR nonstop quite a bit for the past few years, and it was hard not to notice the amount of Mainland Chinese passengers on board. Of course, CO offers much discount, especially during the beginning stage; nevertheless, CO has slowly developed a loyal customer base. I am sure that CO will be a good choice.

For American, it will come close as the second best airline to fly the Chinese routes. They have quite a strong hub at Tokyo...

About Delta, I am not sure... it has only one flight to Tokyo NRT from ATL, and I am not sure if DL is a good choice to start the Mainland route. Apart form its codeshare deal with China Southern, and its Skyteam partner, Korean Air, has a strong hold on the Chinese market, I don't know if DL is fitted to do the Asian run.

Anyway, the Mainland China is a big market to tap on... I am sure United and Northwest appreciate the connections to the Mainland market.

Carfield
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3402
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:12 am

AA has NO hub at Tokyo. They simply have flights to their hubs in the states.



AZJ
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:11 am

"I sure hope that UA keeps up the level of service that they currently offer on Asian routes, its something that we don't see anymore in the airline industry..."

Would you expand on this. I'm not familiar with how UA stacks up against Asian carriers level of service. Coach class please. I may be flying transpacific to HKG and would like your knowledge.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
B2443
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:36 am

Would you expand on this. I'm not familiar with how UA stacks up against Asian carriers level of service. Coach class please. I may be flying transpacific to HKG and would like your knowledge.

Well, the new 14 additional flights from US-China has nothing to do with your destination -HKG, which is covered under a separate agreement.

Speaking of UA's service compared to Asian carriers, if you meant the Chinese carriers, I don't think they are comparable. UA's service (inflight professionalism and on-ground costomer service) is far much better than CA, MU and CZ's. CA, MU and CZ cannot even do thru check-ins on their own flights, let alone inter-line services.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:36 am

b2443,
In my opinion, and employee of UAL, I couldn't wait to get back on UAL when traveling abroad. There are a few European and Asian carriers that people claim are superior to UAL and believe me they are not. UAL Dominates the pacific rim for a reason. People tend to compare the 3000 daily departures domestically to the international flying, it is in fact a whole different airline. UAL Makes money flying to china, and I mean Beijing and Shanghai, the planes are full and fares aren't cheap. Our Asian routes make money and the service is far superior to domestic service. As far as Asian carriers go, UAL is among the best at this, they know it makes money and the flight crews prove that, I have traveled to china(excluding HKG) many times, my favorite being PEK, and I will only fly UAL for the seat selection, times of frequencies, and planes used on these routes, and with the opportunities on using an ID90(90% off ) on ANY Asian carrier I choose UAL every time.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
daumueller
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:45 am

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:14 am

3. America West aka Lufthansa

was that a joke I just didn't get or did I miss something?!  Smile
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: UA And NW To Add 14 Additional Flights To China

Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:31 am

First, this topic was covered a few weeks ago and in quite a bit of detail when info of the deal was first released. So, if you want more info or links, just look it up on the search.

Second, I hope that those of you who think that the LCCs should apply and could operate the China routes are not serious. An ATA L-1011 into China? Please. With routes that are this lucrative, why would you operate discount tickets when you can just as easily fill the plane at much higher fares. This is not a situation where you can expand the market with low fares, add many flights, and then make revenue that way.

As for US airlines in Asia: As mentioned, AA does not have a hub in Tokyo and they are not very strong at all...they have only five flights on most days (SJC, LAX, ORD, 2X DFW, and JFK). Plus, they don't have the hub operations of NW or UA and the flights throughout the Pacific. In fact, Tokyo is American's only destination in Asia. However, I do believe that they will be aggressively pursuing the right to become the new carrier in China. In addition to China, they would probably finally start the ORD-HKG flight that they have the rights for.

As for Delta, I don't see them trying anytime in the first couple of years. With only 8 777s (and others deferred for a while), they will be a little pressed for aircraft with the range. They would likely have to put nearly all of their 777 fleet in the Pacific to accomodate these flights. Plus, I have a hard time believing that they would be able to draw enough traffic from any hub other than Atlanta...which would be a pretty long haul.

Continental definitely seems to be a strong contender and I am almost certain that they will be making a run at the China routes. As mentioned before, they have delivery options for 777s that they have been holding for just such a case. Plus, after NW and UA, I believe that they are the largest US carrier in Asia (passenger carrier) if you include the Continental Micronesia operation.

Most likely, politics and influence will play an important role in this decision. I know that AA supported Bush a bit, but Continental is also based in Texas, so who knows there. As for other airlines, I imagine that United and Northwest will both be pushing for Continental over American. Northwest will prefer to have a partner airline operating the routes and I am sure that United would rather have Continental operating the routes from Newark instead of having American operate routes from Chicago in direct competition.

One last thing. A friend with AA told me that they just announced that slots for JFK-HKG flights had been turned in or plans were cancelled.