Thrust
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:33 pm

Hey, what's up? Listen, I need help. These are answers I've been searching for since July 17, 1996. Did TWA take its 747s off the JFK-CDG route? Because I know that had N93119 avoided its horrific death and completed its journey to CDG, it would've continued on to Athens before returning to JFK. Now, how many other routes into Athens did TWA have up to this point? Because if the route of TWA 800 was the only route into Athens, for TWA, and if in fact the TWA 747s were removed immediately after Flight 800, explain my finding of a TWA 747, N93109, landing in Athens in October 9th or 19th, 1996. It is an a.net photo. Look up the registration of N93109, you will see my point. All I want to know is the number of routes into Athens that TWA had that used the 747. Because apparently they still flew there after Flight 800. THank you, please help provide me with answers I've wanted to know since I was 10 years old. I'd really appreciate it  Laugh out loud

--Thrust
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:47 pm

So...... Could they have moved the 747s to the JFK-Athens route without CDG in there? BTW...... you know there were two TWA#800s that crashed? A 707 back in the 1960s that crashed at or near Athens, and N93119 in 1996.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:02 pm

TWA didn't remove their 747's imediately after TW800.

They were looking to take them out of service already and the fleet numbers jumped up and down depending on need.

At the time TWA only had one flight a day out of Athens, TW881 non stop to JFK operated by 747-100's.

TWA flew 747's on the JFK-Tel Aviv route until early 1998.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:38 pm

TWA flights 880/881 operated MSY-JFK-ATH/ATH-JFK-MSY for a good while after 800 went down. The domestic segment was flown with 727-200's while the ATH portion was flown with 741's.
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:44 am

But did TWA 747s get removed from the JFK-CDG-ATH-JFK route immediately after the accident? If so, I assume the route was either terminated or the 762ER took over on the route? (BTW, it gives me a small measure of comfort to know that TWA was already in the process of retiring its 747s after Flight 800) Big thumbs up
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
quickmover
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:57 am

Actually, I think they were in the process of adding 747s right before the crash. Erickson was the CEO and they brought on a bunch of old 747s. They had scheduled alot of expansion with these birds that were being refurbished. The jets were not ready when the flights were scheduled to begin and they had to wet lease a few 747s from Tower Air in the interim, I believe.
 
jmy007
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:41 am

Please correct me if I am wrong, as I am going off of memory.

But I thought the N93119 came in from Athens that day.

Because at the time, 1996, CDG was already de-hubed, and that they were only flying JFK-ATH, and not through Paris.

Also, TWA did not stop flying the 747 immediately after Flt.800, as I remember being at Lambert waiting for relatives coming from LGW about 3 days after and they came in on a 747. However, the JFK-CDG flight I believe from that point was switched to a 767, and the flight number changed to a 900 series.

I certainly remember the leased Tower 747, as they were often parked near the TW hanger by Cypress Road and I-70. They were all white, less the Transworld titles ant the Red Twa stickers on the tail.

Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
jmy007
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:44 am

Wasn't the TWA 747 fleet Retired in January of 1997?

[Edited 2004-07-28 18:44:39]
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
quickmover
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:45 am

I think SJU used to see several 747s. HNL was one of the last 747 cities. At one time, in the early to mid 90s they flew 2 dailys STL-HNL during the peak season.
 
quickmover
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:47 am

As a side question, were the L1011s parked before the last 747 or was it the opposite?
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:06 am

L1011's last revunue flt was Sept 2nd, 1997.
747's last revenue flt was Feb 20th,1998.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
N905TW
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:53 am

RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:42 am

Lots of good questions, here are some facts that I can recall from that horrible summer....

First off, Flight 800 was not scheduled into Athens. The flight was to operate nonstop to CDG, then continue on to Rome/FCO. That leg to Rome was not a normally scheduled hop, it was done that night because there was a broken 747 already in Paris with an engine change. 800 was to continue to Rome in order to fly one of the 2 flights back to JFK. At that time we had two daily flights from JFK to FCO, and the second one, Flight 848, was cancelled on the night of 800, and the crew deadheaded on 800. The plan was for them to work the flight CDG-FCO and layover. The 747 already in Paris was fixed by the time morning rolled around, and TWA operated flight 801 CDG-JFK, even though the inbound aircraft never "arrived".

incidentally, Flight 881, ATH-JFK made an unscheduled stop in Rome the morning of July 18, 1996, in order to pick up passengers stranded in Rome since the second aircraft never arrived.

Athens service continued with daily 747s until January of 1997, when it went to 3 or 4 times per week.

The 747 was not on its way out when Flight 800 was lost, they had in fact acquired 4 additional 747s for the summer schedule... of which zero out of 4 were ready to go in time. For that reason, TWA operated JFK-SFO-JFK, and STL-HNL-STL with Tower Air and World Airways respectively, in their own paint schemes.

When the 4 "old" 747s did arrive... they were in a hodgepodge of TWA colors and interiors, and 3 of them did not have working video systems. They were from 4 different operators, (Air France, KLM, America West, Continental) and proved to be maintenance nightmares. Only one was completely in TWA paint, one was all white with a red TWA on the tail, etc. They did not last long, and were drawn down quickly after the summer travel season ended.

I sure do miss seeing those big red TWA tails.........

 
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ATA L1011
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:00 am

I really miss seeing the L10's and 747's at LAX in the 80's and 90's, always impressive to see Tristars parked next to Old 747-100's and 200'
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
N905TW
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:53 am

RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:05 am

And just as impressive, was heading to the TWA terminals at JFK around 5 -6pm in the late 80s, early 90s.... L10s, 767s, and 747s everywhere headed to Europe and the the middle east, while over at the domestic building the 727s , L10s and MD80s sat waiting to take the connection passengers to points west.

The days when there wasn't even enough gate space for all the flights, and some of the 747s were parked at the hardstands, with mobile lounge departures from the terminal!

Ah yes, the good old days!
 
OB1783P
Posts: 310
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RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:43 am

To N905TW:

I see that you are a new member. If all your posts are as interesting as the one above, you're going to be very popular here!

Your post was a haunting picture of an airline down on its luck.

Imagine being one of us, connoisseurs~historians, booking a trip on TWA out of solidarity and nostalgia, and finding oneself one some sinister half broken white tail...

I remember TWA around 1980, the JFK terminal, the beautiful F/A's, the sparkling L1011s. Too bad, too bad.
I've flown thousands of miles and I can tell you it's a lot safer than crossing the street!
 
N905TW
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:53 am

RE: TWA 747 Routes Into Athens After Flight 800

Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:19 am

OB1783P,

Thank you for the welcome, I have been on this website for years looking at the photos, just recently joined the message board side of the site... maybe I shouldn't have, its taking up too much free time!

I apologize that you had to travel on one of our "twisted sister" white tail 747s. I know how bad they were for the passengers, I went over to HNL as a passenger on the ex Air France one with no video system in the fall of 1996 - they passed out newspapers and crossword puzzle books to keep the passengers entertained! Oh, and a $50 voucher towards your next TWA flight!

Thanks for supporting us back then, we really did appreciate it!

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