FlagshipAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:55 am

Hi folks...
Just got the latest edition of AW&ST in the mail, and there is a small paragraph stating that the 34 A300s is likely to be retired in 2008. American wants to reduce the number of types to 5...MD-80s, 738s, 752, 763s & 772s. The article also stated that AA tried to move up the lease expirations with Airbus, but was unsuccessful. AA owns 10 A300s & leased 24 more. I'm wondering what will become of the A300 fleet once they're phased out. I'm thinking Fed Ex perhaps. Thoughts & opinions anyone? Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13438
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:57 am

This still leaves the question of what will replace them, since AA loves the cargo revenue the AB6 brings in, especially to/from the Caribbean.

The 763s and 752s are great, but they don't have the cargo capacity the AB6 provides.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:58 am

The A300's big cargo capacity is well-suited to the Caribbean routes on which most of them operate. It won't be easy to replace them in that respect.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:00 am

2008? Wow, only four more years, or 3 1/2 actually, to try to catch an A300 in the U.S. On second thought, A^A will probably start to retire them in 2008, which may take some time to pull all of them completely from the line. Seems to me these birds will retire from A^A with plenty of life left on their frames.

Yes, I too think the A300s will go to cargo carriers.

[Edited 2004-07-28 18:01:29]
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:03 am

Perhaps they're setting themselves up to get a few 7E7. Will those be able to replace the A300 cargo capacity? If so then then AA might be the special surprise buyer of the 7E7 for '08.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
mx330
Posts: 793
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:21 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:11 am

I've never figured out the plane that replaces the AB6 in AA's Caribbean routes... 75's and 76's are not as efficient as the A300 is.

I think 763 would be the "less worst" option and I am a Boeing guy!

Juan APM
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:12 am

AA will probably use 777s on routes where the extra cargo capacity is warranted, for example JFK-Santo Domingo.

CO operates 777s from EWR-Santo Domingo.

AA has a huge fleet of 777s, they can get extra utilization on them from JFK and MIA by having them do quick turn arounds to the Carribean where most of the extra cargo capacity is warranted. Instead of having the 777s sit on the ground at JFK or MIA they can do quick round trips to the Islands and be back in time for a late evening/early morning Departure to Tokyo, Europe etc..

That's how CO operates their widebody fleet, they fly 767-200s to SJU and 767-400s/777s to Santo Domingo that would otherwise be sitting on the ground at EWR.

AA will not be able to replace each A300 flight with a 777, however they probably know which ones have the highest demand for cargo and can thus deploy their assets accordingly.

Some AA A300 routes do not carry much cargo at all, such as JFK-Cancun. That route makes more sense operating as a daily 757 or even a twice daily 757.

Pan Am had 747-200 flights from JFK to Santo Domingo and St.Maarten that were also operating Trans-Atlantic routes from JFK, they were getting extra utilization out of the aircraft.

Eventually I can see AA doing the same with their JFK-LAX flights, eventually they are going to retire the 767-200s and probably replace them with Internationaly configured 767-300s that are based at JFK.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:19 am

Perhaps they're setting themselves up to get a few 7E7

How will introducing the 7E7 help reduce the number of a/c types in the AA fleet? They want to REDUCE the # of types in the fleet.

Do they have plans to retire all their 762ERs or will they remain?
That's why we're here.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:31 am

I still think they're going to buy a good number of 7E7 for an 08 delivery timeframe.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:31 am

"How will introducing the 7E7 help reduce the number of a/c types in the AA fleet"

In the short term they would replace AA's A300s, over the long term they would also replace AA's massive fleet of 767s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:33 am

STT757,

I thought airlines assigned one aircraft to a transatlantic route? In other words, a single 777 would go JFK-CDG-JFK in one day (about 16 hours total in the air plus 1.5 hours on either side. At what point would that same plane have the 'sitting around' time to fly to the carribean and back? By may calculation that leaves about 5 hours for the plane do something else- facinating. That would be trmendously effeicient if CO does do that though!
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:44 am

AA has 777 flights from JFK to Europe, South American (GRU) and Tokyo, so they get spread around.

The Trans-Atlantic flights are usualy Afternoon-early Evening (some morning)

The South American Flights are usually Late Evening

and the Tokyo flight is morning.

Here's a possible 777 routing..

Sao Paulo-JFK 777 Arrives JFK at 6:40 Am

Flight is cleaned, prepped

Flight now operates JFK-Santo Domingo

Departs JFK 10:45 AM arrives Santo Domingo 1:45

Departs Santo Domingo 2:45 arrives JFK 6:45 PM

Aircraft is cleaned etc..

Aircraft departs JFK for Sao Paulo at 10:45PM.

And the cycle is repeated, lots of cushining in that schedule for delays.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:07 am

Great, So we still have 3 1/2 more years to deal with cancellations,malfunctions and major mechanical issues. Not to mention one of the most dirty and smelly aircraft in the system. This plane is not taken care of in the way it needs to be. I am not saying Airbus is a bad plane, Because I would love a A333 in AA colors. But that is not going to happen. It is that AA does not keep their bus in shape.
"The low fares airline."
 
User avatar
mx330
Posts: 793
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:21 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:15 am

Aa767400.

In Mexico AA's people know the A300 as the "ScareBus" and yes I had the opportunity to work on IGS (AA's ground service at MEX) and it was a terrible plane. I also don't understand why A300 to MEX instead of 763. I think its just for passengers capacity than for cargo.

Juan APM
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:18 am

The first AA A300 leases don't expire until 2008 (and I believe only three expire that year), so any others they would retire before then would have to come from the ten owned aircraft. I've always read, however, that AA had such flexibility on these leases that they could return the planes on fairly short notice, with no penalty. That would contradict what was said about Airbus not allowing them to end the leases early. I wonder what's correct...
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
VSGirl
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:18 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:18 am


I would like to see the A33X in service with American, but I dont think we will see it, though it would make sense.

I have flown on the AA A300 a lot (back when it used to fly EGKK - KJFK) and I always moved it, though I must admit a few weeks back when I saw one she did look some what tired (not nearly as bad as AF aircraft).

I am sure we will see either B752 or B763 on those routes, maybe if they do some marketing for them a B772 (ya right!)

Kimberly.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:26 am

I still think they're going to buy a good number of 7E7 for an 08 delivery timeframe.

According to Boeing, there are no delivery positions remaining in 2008, 2009, and 3/4s of 2010.

N
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:42 am

7E7s? Yep. They just avoided Chapter 11 so a new load of debt would be such a good idea...  Insane

757/767s? Too small for the tons of cargo and excess baggage. Forget that.

777s? Seems to be the only option left. Maybe the 7E7 later on, into the 2010 and later timeframe. I can't see AA getting rid of their moneymaker A300s in bulk. If you have a prize cow you don't shoot it and have a barbeque to celebrate...
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
N62NA
Posts: 4006
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:57 am

Well, I'm not a mechanic or AA employee, but from my perspective as a passenger, I've found the A300s to be quite nice actually.

Sure, some of the 763s have nicer video systems in them, but give me an A300 anyday over one of those cramped 757s (yes I know, the A300 is also LRTC).

I've flown on lots of the A300s over the past 2 years between MIA and EWR, JFK and SJU - sometimes 4x a month. Only 2 mx delays in that period of time and the widebody interior is something that I value over the cramped single aisle 757.

And, the interiors didn't seem to be in bad shape at all (at least in coach).
 
mark777300
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:30 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:59 am

That's too bad that AA is planning on phasing out the A300. Before B6 came along, I frequently used AA between JFK and MIA, and almost always booked a flight on their A300's. I enjoy widebodies, and for short flights like JFK-MIA, the A300 was comfortable, roomy, and quiet. AA will probably rely on their 777 to provide the cargo capacity needed for some Central/ South American routes. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that AA may order some more 777's to cover for the A300 retirement.
 
mikeyCpvd
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:25 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:59 am

Here's a possible 777 routing..
Sao Paulo-JFK 777 Arrives JFK at 6:40 Am
Flight is cleaned, prepped
Flight now operates JFK-Santo Domingo
Departs JFK 10:45 AM arrives Santo Domingo 1:45
Departs Santo Domingo 2:45 arrives JFK 6:45 PM
Aircraft is cleaned etc..
Aircraft departs JFK for Sao Paulo at 10:45PM.
And the cycle is repeated, lots of cushining in that schedule for delays.



Well is this schedule factoring in 1 aircraft or two? Because if it's all about utilization, then I would assume it's 1, right? I see a huge hole in your round robin. Leaving alone the daytime rotation for the Carribean flight, what time does the JFK-GRU flight arrive in South America? Because if it leaves New York at 10:45p, that's a red-eye flight with only 1 timezone change, which means it's a loooong flight. That plane lands 9 hours later which would be the early morning of the next day. You have that flight actually landing in New York in the early morning hours of the next day, which is absolutely not possible. The only way for that schedule to work, I can see, is if the Carribean flights were timed later in the day, with a lot less leeway for delays and cleaning. As Petazulu said, and which you could parlay into this scenario, the flight times alone for JFK-GRU-JFK is about 18 hours. Not considering turn times. How does that T7 have time to run to the Caribbean and back with 6 hours left in the day? Again not considering turn times.

Some cats think i'm 6 feet, I'm so deep; I can get d-d-down like a pessimist - Common
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:22 am

If AA wants to reduce Fleet types, they could find a way to get down to just three types

Get the 737-700 to start replacing the MD-80s
the 7E7 to replace the 757, 767 and A300
and the 777


So AA could have a fleet like

737-700, 737-800, 7E7-3, 7E7-8, 777

which would be 3 types

737
7E7
777
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:36 am

Congratulations.

You just pushed AA into Ch.11 with all that new debt.

Any more good ideas?
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Ken777
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:42 am

This is interesting, especially with the 7E7 lurking in the background and the fact that there is no love lost between AA & Airbus. While Airbus might have planes that would fit well with AA fleet and a gook knack at creative financing the two just can't seem to work together.

That leaves Boeing with an opportunity to be very creative on the financial side. Since this is not a situation of immediate need, but long term planning, there may be ways to sell the 7E7 to AA. Returned leased planes frees up monthly lease payments, leverage can be gained from fuel efficiencies, etc.

Like a lot of airlines, AA will be looking at how the industry (and their business) develops over the next 12 - 24 months. AA & the 7E7? Stranger things have happened.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:47 am

I think a realistc time frame for AA's A300 retirements would be seven aircraft per year starting in '08, that would mean the fleet would be retired by the end of '12.

(it's wierd writing that, '12).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:50 am

According to Boeing, there are no delivery positions remaining in 2008, 2009, and 3/4s of 2010.

Some of those slots are filled by unspecified airlines that have a sort of "hold" on their delivery spots. Boeing has stated that at least 1 US airline has some slots for the 7E7.
 
redraider
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 3:40 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:49 am

Whitehatter - Productive use of debt will not send you to Chap. 11. If AA purchased some 7E7's, they wouldn't just buy them and park them and admire their beauty. They would actually fly and earn revenue for the company.

You've got to spend money to make money.
My wife can't wrestle, but you should see her box.
 
AA300B
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:00 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:28 am

About time they replace their A300... very bad plane.

but in most of the south americans flights the A300 is full, and its the AA plane with more capacity of passengers.


so which plane is going to replace it???

2 daily flights in a 757???




E145, E170, E190, A310, A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A380, 717 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 77W, 787
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:53 am

HlywdCatft

American has close to 300 MD80's in the fleet, going to be a long time before those babies will go anywhere. Phasing out the A300's would be the best thing to do.
NO URLS in signature
 
f4f3a
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:03 am

I think AA should get a330 to replace the A300. It carries an enormous amount of freight and has buckets of range as well.

AA was and is a big MD operator but with MD out the window it reduces their options.

AA may want to reduce types but i feel it wont want to be supplied by a single manufacturer.


They could of course do a ups and buy new a300s
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:31 am

Nothing new here.

The A300 leases expire between 2008-2012. They will not all go at once. Those favorable lease termination clauses were only good until a certain point. The 30-day turn-back deal is long over, several years ago.

AA will receive about 9 more 777's beginning in 2006. They also will take delivery of about 2 dozen more 738's beginning in 2006. You will probably see AA shift capacity as the initial A300's leave the fleet. I think its fairly safe to say that AA isn't at the point of placing additional orders at least for another year or two.
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:59 am

whether American plans are to get the 7E7 in 2008 or 2012.... its almost certain that this will happen sooner or later...

I wouldn't be surprised if AA converts some current 777 orders to make the 7E7 happen and be one of the launch customers...

Again, Boeing has this secret list of 24 carriers taking up 2 years of 7E7 deliveries... so AA could easily be one of them...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
gearup
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:23 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:30 am

About time they replace their A300... very bad plane.

Why is it a bad plane?
I have no memory of this place.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:49 am

In Mexico AA's people know the A300 as the "ScareBus"
I was under the impression that "ScareBus" was the nickname for Airbus.  Big grin

AA's A300s are pretty much used on tourist (not business) routes, and that means putting a lot of people in and not taking extreme interior care of the planes. Some planes do wonders for some airlines, but the A300 and AA were not exactly a perfect match.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:14 am

The A300 serves American very well. They are not that old. They were acquired in 1988 and are used for high density, low yield routes, mainly to the Caribbean and a few Latin America routes. The planes carry enormous amounts of cargo and AA renegotiated the leases a while back to more favorable terms.

I doubt they will leave the fleet immediately.

The A300 has also proven to be quite versatile for American. 8 were used on Transatlantic flights from 1997 to 2000 operating three of the six daily JFK-LHR flights, as well as the EWR-LHR route (alternating with a 762ER),
BOS-LHR, the short-lived BOS-LGW route (1998), and BOS-CDG as well as MIA-MAD.

ContinentalEWR
 
FlagshipAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:25 am

Just to add a sidenote here...per the article AA Chief Gerard Arpey stated the A300's role can be taken over by the 757 & 767. There is a play on words here. It was worded as if the leases were running "through" 2008...perhaps meaning the 24 A300s are returning to Airbus in a mass exodus. AA simply wants a 5-aircraft type fleet. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3969
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:36 am

Um, here's a question . . . even if AA will use 757s/767s to replace the Airbus A300--what will replace the 757/767 on the current routes that they fly? I don't see any new orders for those aircraft coming--especially since the 757 is soon to be out of production.
I doubt AA is just going to reduce their fleet by 34 widebodies. So there has to be something else that will happen here. Some new aircraft. If not there will be a big reduction in capacity.

PJ
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:38 am

I doubt they will leave the fleet immediately.
The article does not seem state that AA has any immediate disposal plans.

The A300 has also proven to be quite versatile for American. 8 were used on Transatlantic flights from 1997 to 2000 operating three of the six daily JFK-LHR flights, as well as the EWR-LHR route (alternating with a 762ER),
BOS-LHR, the short-lived BOS-LGW route (1998), and BOS-CDG as well as MIA-MAD.

There were also some in 2001, but AA's A300s were pretty bad for trans-Atlantic flights.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:22 am

The A-300 is a piece of junk. Yes I know first hand because I work on them. As for the 757/767's doing the same work as a Bus. They are going to start doing it here in a couple of months I have heard that we are putting 10 Buses in temp storage in Tulsa hopefully to clean them up.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
gearup
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:23 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:42 am

Boeing767mech

You may be an aircraft mechanic as you seem to indicate but how can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you talk that kind of claptrap....The A-300 is a piece of junk. The Airbus A300 is definitely not a piece of junk...Yes I know first hand because I work on them (to quote an expert!). This conversation has been re-hashed on this forum too many times and there have been no shortage of 'experts' like you who make idiotic statements with no data to support them. The A300 is a superb aircraft with an excellent safety, maintenance and efficiency record. From a maintenance perspective, it does not seem to cause problems for operators and maintenance people who know what they are doing.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
miaskies
Posts: 1235
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:08 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:31 pm

MIA-MAD ON AB6?? HMMM DONT REMEMBER THAT.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
warren747sp
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:50 pm

That is terrific new. No more worries flying behind heavys.
AA pilots have been calleing for this for a long time.
I still don't see how a 744 can blow the tail of an A300 since all reports seem to blame the JAL flight for causing the incident.
747SP
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:00 pm

"I think AA should get a330 to replace the A300. It carries an enormous amount of freight and has buckets of range as well."

AA utilizes their A300s mainly on routes to the Carribean and Mexico, why pay for range that they don't need.

"what will replace the 757/767 on the current routes that they fly?"

As mentioned AA has alot of 737-800s on order which can easily replace 757s on some routes, also mentioned are additional 777 orders yet to be delivered.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:02 pm

Just heard from a source that AA does have deposists on 7E7s......Which makes sense, seeing that the 7E7SR is the ONLY possible A300 replacement without A.) Losing precious cargo capability or B.) Having too much weight.

Can anybody confirm about AA with the 7E7 deposists?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:07 pm

Long term the 7E7 Short Range version makes the most sense for AA, they don't need that much range. Also the smaller wingspan of the 7E7 SR probably means they can operate the aircraft into/out of LGA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:29 pm

Yeah, I would not be surprised if either CO or AA had deposits, and were merely waiting until the fiscally appropriate time to announce an order. Both airlines have cash. Hell, Boeing knows they're good for the money.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
ckfred
Posts: 4709
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:39 pm

When AA signed its contract with Boeing in the late '90s, it was for full fleet replacement over 20 years, i.e., about 600 planes. Starting in '99, AA has taken delivery of less than 200 aircraft, so AA is still holding over 400 production slots over the next 15 years. There is no way AA is going to buy any Airbus aircraft.

With regard to the MD-80s, the oldest aircraft are 21 years old. A friend of mine, who is an AA pilot, tells me that those planes have a lot of hours left on the airframes. But, an MD-80 needs its C-checks more frequently than a 727-200. So, the maintenance needed at the next two or three C-checks will determine when the phased retirement starts. My friend guesses that it's at least 5 years before retirement starts, but there is no plan to keep them flying as long as NW's DC-9 fleet.

At that point, you will probably see 737-700s and -800s being ordered.

As for the A300s, AA loves the cargo capacity, and the plane is fairly inexpensive to operate. But those birds are very different from Boeing and McD planes and have been headaches for pilots and mechanics. So AA's decision to start retiring them isn't a surprise

AA is very interested in the 7E7, but it's a question of economics. It's definitely the plane that will replace the 757s, 767s, and A300s. But the question is when will AA be able to afford them. As for now, there are no plans to retire the 767-200ERs. They are needed to fly trans-con, and they could return to trans-Atlantic service, assuming that AA first gets the 7E7-300.

All of this assumes that AA can become profitable, to the point that it can make significant capital investments.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:04 pm

With instability in the price of oil all airlines will have to face challenges of profitability in the future. That can be an important factor when looking at the 7E7 and, if B delivers on the economics side, the 7E7 may be a major answer to profitability. For AA to order the 7E7 they are going to have to move out planes that are generating costs and use that to pay for the new planes, or get B to switch some current orders to the 7E7. I believe that the existing contracts will be the one factor that moves AA to be the first US carrier to order.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6208
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:08 pm

I know it is too soon for this question but, what will AA use, in your opinion, to replace the AB6 that does the MIA-MEX flights? I hope they decide to use a 763 because I love seeing widebodies in MEX.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: AA's A300s Next To Retire

Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:23 pm

First of all, I am a Boeing fan. Yet I have to be honest enough to say that the A-300-600R is an excellent airplane from an operational point of view. It does suit American's needs well. I have flown the 'Bus to SJU and BOG, and I have found it comfortable and no gripes.

By the way, there is no "shelf-life" on an airplane. Originally airliners were designed with an objective of 20,000 hours. I have seen some 707's that have passed the 105K hour mark. As long as an airplane is PROPERLY maintained, it will continue to operate until the cost of replacement parts and supplemental inspections become prohibitive.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH

Who is online