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jfklganyc
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DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:18 pm

Delta has really upped the advertising in the 5 boroughs for their new and/or expanded service from their JFK hub. A lot of it is quite creative--it seems to play off the CO ads for their EWR hub:

"Left you heart in San Francisco--then go back for it"
Expanded service from JFK to SFO.

"Go to the Upper West Side . . . of the nation"
Expanded service to Seattle.

"Go very far downtown"
New service from JFK to San Juan.

"Great planes to the Rockies"
New service from JFK to Denver.

"Seven bridges, four tunnels, 210 flights"

I also notice that the Delta press releases now call JFK a hub.
"For the first time, Delta has launched a United States - Hispanic advertising campaign supporting the new Latin American and Caribbean service from its JFK hub." -delta.com--June 1

PJ
 
SafetyDude
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:45 pm

Delta needs to improve its transcon service, and its horrible terminal at JFK before they can be taken seriously.

As for their add campaign, too many companies have used the idea of places in NYC in regards to travel. The best campaign was the original, done by Citi Bank and AA.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
JGPH1A
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:55 pm

I would agree about the horrible hub at JFK - those 2 DL: terminals are both antiquated and decrepit. Its a shame too, because the PanAm Worldport terminal used to be a state-of-the-art showcase way back when.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
chepos
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:02 am

How is DL doing with their JFK-SJU/JFK-SDQ flights ? Considering they have some competition on the route with B6 and AA.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
NYC777
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:19 am

I would agree about the horrible hub at JFK - those 2 DL: terminals are both antiquated and decrepit. Its a shame too, because the PanAm Worldport terminal used to be a state-of-the-art showcase way back when.


Actually before 9/11 Delta was planning to completely renovate Terminal 2 and tear down Terminal 3 (PA Worldport) and expand terminal 4 by adding a new concourse to the East side (I think). This would have been the focus of it's international depatures and arrivals. It would be linked to terminal 2 by a bridge to ease transfers to/from the domestic flights. After the post 9/11 financial problems they dropped the plans..too bad, it would have been a wonderful addition to terminal 4. The occupied by terminal 3 would have been used for parking aircraft.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
scottysair
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:26 am

Yes, it's true about DL terminals 2 & 3 will be make reconstruction with the concourses.
 
hockey55dude
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:29 am

You Forgot JFK- San Diego. Flights Started July 1st.
 
NYC777
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:30 am

Does anyone know if DL will resurrect the terminal redevelopment plans. I know that these plans were in response to AA mega terminal now under construction.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
scottysair
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:35 am

Yes, it's correct for reconstruction with the mega terminal with AA. I remember with those information with way back of few years ago.
 
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STT757
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:36 am

I see the ads when I leave work, they have them on 7th ave and Canal Street by the Holland Tunnel. I get to stare at them while sitting in traffic at 4Pm.

One ad I have to question though is one where they boast the "most nonstops" or the "most service" from JFK than any other carrier. This ad I think is false, I think AA and B6 have more JFK service than DL.

"and expand terminal 4 by adding a new concourse to the East side (I think)."

The plan was this..

Expand the East concourse of T-4 (the one closest to T-5) and move all the airlines that were operating from the T-4 West Concourse (closest to DL's T-3) to the newly expanded East Concourse. DL would then take over all the gates at the West Concourse that were vacated, they would also extend that concourse by another 4 gates for a total of 14.

DL would also add their own ticketing area to the West side of T-4, they would operate International flights as well as some Domestic flights from T-4.

They would then tear down T-3 (World Port) and make it a aircraft parking area, finally they would renovate T-2 and add some Regional Jet gates.

Here are some press releases from 2000, the plan was shelved and unlikely to be revived as originally planned.

http://www.jfk-airport.org/newsdelta1.htm

http://www.conway.com/ssinsider/bbdeal/bd001023.htm
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
SafetyDude
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:39 am

Actually before 9/11 Delta was planning to completely renovate Terminal 2 and tear down Terminal 3 (PA Worldport) and expand terminal 4 by adding a new concourse to the East side (I think). This would have been the focus of it's international depatures and arrivals. It would be linked to terminal 2 by a bridge to ease transfers to/from the domestic flights. After the post 9/11 financial problems they dropped the plans..too bad, it would have been a wonderful addition to terminal 4. The occupied by terminal 3 would have been used for parking aircraft.
Delta has nothing to do with T4 at JFK, and T4 is already using enough space, and is not getting overcrowded (due to proper planning; ah-hem BAA Heathrow).

A bridge from T2 to T4 would be rather hard, and I imagine that since TSA would have a fit if people did not re-clear security, and people from international flights would not be able to switch terminals without going through customs, I would expect a bridge to happen if Delta decided to do those plans - unless the bridge was not in the secure area.

If DL does re-do their terminal, I am sure that Air Jamaica would come back, and if the terminal is nice enough, I would not be surprised to see AF and even VS switch.

I honestly hope that they will re-do their two terminals, much more so over AA, although AA's new terminal will be nice.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
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STT757
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:40 am

"Does anyone know if DL will resurrect the terminal redevelopment plans. "

DL announced recently they are going to spend $300 Million to repair the HVAC of T-2 and T-3 as well as renovate the restrooms and rebuild the baggage system.

They would not do that if they had any plans to replace the facilities anytime soon, AA scaled back their project at JFK from their original plans. Even if DL were to again try to do a JFK terminal project it would be on a much smaller scale, but even that is very unlikely given DL's current condition and the ever growing dominance of B6 at JFK.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
NYC777
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:45 am

I think AA scaled back plans reduced (or eliminated) the reginal jet gates.

A bridge from T2 to T4 would be rather hard, and I imagine that since TSA would have a fit if people did not re-clear security, and people from international flights would not be able to switch terminals without going through customs, I would expect a bridge to happen if Delta decided to do those plans - unless the bridge was not in the secure area.

Mind you that these plans we pre-9/11 and pre-TSA. The assumption being that international arriving passengers would clear customs and immigration prior to proceeding to their domestic connections. It will also allow domestic passengers to connect with their international flights.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:47 am

Regardless of B6's increasing presence at JFK, DL is by far the biggest international carrier out of JFK, and its a pity their terminal facility doesn't reflect that. T3 is really appalling, and has been neglected for way longer than it should have been.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:20 am

Excuse me, but I want to know what the hell we are talking about here. . . "Terminal 3 is appalling"

It absolutely is not! A full rennovation was done after the Pan Am takeover with new signage, gate areas, seating, eateries, and one hell of a business elite check-in.
Terminal 2 is ugly. But that's not DL's fault--it is a square box! There is nothing you can do with it. I have seen DL's other hubs and JFK is right on par with the boring concourses of ATL and far surpasses that horrible horseshoe at DFW.
That's why the redevelopment plan was faulted from the beginning. It kept the ugly T2 and and destroyed T3 which is an architectual icon.

By the way--out of the DL terminals in New York, my vote for worst would go to the piece of crap at LGA that they call the Delta Flight Center. It has been under construction since I was a kid and has always been one thing--UGLY!

PJ
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:27 am

DL needs to adaptively re-use the old Worldport. It's as much a landmark as TWA's old terminal. Really, it should be against the law to demolish something so historically linked with commercial aviation.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
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STT757
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:54 am

I agree, the World Port is more of an icon of that Special Era of then TWA's T-5 (to me atleast).

I would love the Port Authority and some private groups to take the original part of the World Port (the Oval) and move it to another part of the airport and make it a museum, something like they did recently with EWR's Historic Terminal 1.

They could even track down some old Pan Am 747s, TWA L1011s, Eastern A300s etc. and park them at the gates for people to walk through..

I digress..

DL's LGA Terminal and T-2 at JFK are the pits..

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
dc-9-10
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:18 am

I recently went through both t2 and t3 at JFK when I was flying back from ATH earlier this month. I also went through these same two terminals in the summer of 2001 on my way to FCO. I must say that back in 2001 both of the terminals were ok at best, but you could tell that they were not built to withstand even the light security that we had in this country prior to 911. The oval part was in good condition and when I went through it this month it was still very attractive. In 2001 I felt that the whole thing could use a face lift, but when I went through it this past month at peak travel time (5pm) things were much different. New security measures and huge bomb sniffing machines take up so much room, room that was not allocated to the building when aviation security as it is today was only a crazy pipe dream someone would have. The new plexy glass walls really make for a tight fit for thousands of passengers trying to get to their international destination. Our 767 flight to CVG was departing from gate 27 (t-2)where there was about 10 yards of space between the window outside and the new walls now in place. The area did not have any spare room for anything let alone 200 people trying to get on a 76 and others rushing quickly around to make their connections.

I know that Delta is not in the best of financial terms right now and they don't really have any business in building a new terminal at JFK, although when the $$ starts flowing in again I would love to see the airline do something with what they have at JFK. As we all know, their international routes are their bread and butter flying to many cities in Europe that other United States carriers don't even look at. But I must say that before they do anything with JFK they need to work on their international product which had declined from when I flew them in 2001.

I don't really have a point I was trying to make, just to let people know what I see from a guy who loves aviation and has had good experiences with Delta in the past.

Dc-9-10
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:30 am

Looks like Delta is copying Continental's ubiquitous and popular ad campaign in the NY area, which began in 1999 with tag lines like Oi! to Aloha! Nonstop and The Oranges to Orange County, Nonstop.

Not very imaginative. The ads are washed out gray. You hardly notice them.

 
modesto2
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:07 am

I agree with ContinentalEWR, the ads I've seen above the train stations are very subtle and difficult to see. I have to stare at them for several seconds before understanding their message. DL is definitely making efforts to compete against AA and B6.
 
NYCAAer
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:30 am

I immediately thought of Continental's ads in New York/Newark when I saw the new Delta ads.

And the ad claiming Delta operates more flights out of JFK is deceiving. The ad I saw had a disclaimer at the bottom saying that includes the operations of Delta Connection carriers. JetBlue is the largest carrier at JFK in terms of flights operated and passenger boardings. And although Delta may fly to more places in Europe than any other carrier at JFK, American actually has more international flights out of JFK.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:05 pm

Looks like Delta is copying Continental's ubiquitous and popular ad campaign in the NY area, which began in 1999 with tag lines like Oi! to Aloha! Nonstop and The Oranges to Orange County, Nonstop.
As have many companies, including AA/Citi and the MTA.

Mind you that these plans we pre-9/11 and pre-TSA. The assumption being that international arriving passengers would clear customs and immigration prior to proceeding to their domestic connections. It will also allow domestic passengers to connect with their international flights.
Good point about pre-TSA, but even before 9/11, security never liked the idea of people not clearing international-flight-security.

Excuse me, but I want to know what the hell we are talking about here. . . "Terminal 3 is appalling"
I thought you were confusing T2 and T3, but apparently you are not. T3 is just plain ugly and cramped.

By the way--out of the DL terminals in New York, my vote for worst would go to the piece of crap at LGA that they call the Delta Flight Center. It has been under construction since I was a kid and has always been one thing--UGLY!
Delta at LGA is not all that bad.

American actually has more international flights out of JFK.
Every airline can claim something, and I believe that DL has more destinations than AA.  Insane

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
NYCAAer
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:02 pm

Here are DL's int'l destinantion out of JFK-

Paris, France; Nice, France; Rome, Italy; Milan, Italy; Venice, Italy; Frankfurt, Germany; Brussels, Belgium; Amsterdam, Netherlands; Moscow, Russia; Madrid, Spain; Barcelona, Spain; Istanbul, Turkey; Athens, Greece; Mexico City, Mexico; Santo Domingo, D.R.; Aruba, N.A. In all, 16 destinations.

AA's int'l destinations out of JFK-

London, UK; Paris, France; Rome, Italy; Brussels, Belgium; Zurich, Switzerland; Tokyo, Japan; Sao Paulo, Brazil; Buenos Aires, Argentina; Caracas, Venezuela; Cancun, Mexico; San Jose, Costa Rica; Montego Bay, Jamaica; Kingston, Jamaica; Grand Cayman; Port-au-Prince, Haiti; Santo Domingo, D.R.; Santiago, D.R.; Puerto Plata, D.R.; La Romana, D.R.; Punta Cana, D.R.; Aruba, N.A.; St. Maarten, N.A.; Barbados; Providenciales, Turk and Caicos; Bermuda. In all, 25 destinations.

Hmmm... is Delta counting its codeshare partners in its totals for int'l destinations?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:01 pm

I think they meant Europe. I didn't see the add--but in the past DL has advertised the most flights from NY/JFK to Europe.

Just a thought.

By the way Will, I may disagree with you on the status of T3 at JFK--but not matter what --DL's LGA terminal is awful. I personally love the brown tiled floors and the lack of windows--nice throw back to the 1980s.

PJ
 
JGPH1A
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:27 pm

Re: Excuse me, but I want to know what the hell we are talking about here. . . "Terminal 3 is appalling"

It absolutely is not!


I beg to differ - it absolutely is ! JFK T3 is a hole, plain and simple. The gate areas are small, cramped, shabby, poorly laid out. The interior of the departures area is like a rabbit warren of ugly dark passages, tatty unappealing retail outlets, dated decor - it is truly awful. NCE flights go out from one of the gates at the end of the terminal, I forget which one, and if the flight is full, the gate area is jammed. The door to the jetway is stuck in the corner, while the gate podium is at the other end of the gate area, by the passageway, so CSA's trying to move between the gate and the podium have to fight through hordes of pax. The gate agent desks still have the three cubby holes for tickets marked First Class, Clipper Class and Coach - serious flashback mode ! The whole place needs gutting and redoing.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
jasepl
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:43 pm

NYCAAer, here's DL's 17th international destination out of JFK: BOM.
 
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STT757
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:59 pm

"I personally love the brown tiled floors and the lack of windows--nice throw back to the 1980s."

Reminds me of 1980s Burger Kings..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
SafetyDude
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:02 pm

By the way Will, I may disagree with you on the status of T3 at JFK--but not matter what --DL's LGA terminal is awful. I personally love the brown tiled floors and the lack of windows--nice throw back to the 1980s.
There is nothing antique or cute about T3. It is a dark and grimy place that has no room for DL's flights. LGA is much better compared to T3.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
jrlander
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RE: DL's New Ads--expanded JFK Hub

Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:23 pm

I also wish they would adapt the original terminal into a new design. I wonder if it could be a check-in area, and then connect underground to a concourse, thereby eliminating the awful 70's addition which totally messed the place up.

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