A388
Topic Author
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Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:01 am

As I promised, here are the photo's I took the day the Buitenveldert runway was used for take-offs and landings at the same time. On my website, the Schiphol Airport Page Two (Buitenverldert runway gallery), you can see take-offs and landings on this runway, including the situation I described in my other thread about the NW DC-10 taking off while a KL 744 was closely behind it almost touching down. On my photo these two may appear to be fairly separated, but keep in mind that the DC-10 was just starting to accelerate at a very slow speed, while the 744 was coming in with a much higher speed.

Anyway, I hope you will like my photo's, including the other photo's I've uploaded.

Here's the link to my website:

http://rogereuropeanaviation.freeservers.com

Regards A388
 
luv2fly
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:09 am

A388

Your website is very nice and your up close pictures of the planes are well worth the visit alone.

THANKS
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
geoffm
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Phot

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:13 am

Nice looking website, but couldn't really find evidence of what you are suggesting, and *please* ease up on the apostrophes! For starters, you don't need one on "photo's" as you're not abbreviating anything, nor is it possessive.  Wink/being sarcastic

Geoff M.
 
A388
Topic Author
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:23 am

Hi Geoffm,

You mean, the word photo's has to be "photos"? I don't understand what you are saying. As for the evidence, I meant that some members here, didn't believe me, that the Buitenveldert runway is never used for take-offs and landings simultaneously and in the direction you can see on my photos. That was one reason I made a page comprising those photos. Thanks for the positive reaction so far (Geoffm & Luv2fly)  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards A388
 
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apuneger
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:40 am

Must have been a tight clearance the KLM 747 received.

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
bobnwa
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:37 am

A388,

What he is saying is the word photos is the plural of photo. A person may have a photo (one) or photos (many).

's is the possesive when added to a word.An example would be if A388 owned a book it would be A388's book.

Anyway, great web site!!!
 
b757lvr
Posts: 50
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:40 am

Great photo's A388! Loved the website, the photo about the 747 on final with the DC10 on start up roll is quite exciting to watch, I think its one of those things that ATC does from time to time, to keep up a certain pace.. ( just my opinion ) I call it ' controlled madness ' These guys all over the world do an awesome job, and I'm sure everyone involved was acutely aware of what was going on. KEEP THOSE RUNWAY SHOTS COMING!
 
cptGirmayTesfa
Posts: 374
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:46 am

Very nice website, congratulations, keep up the good work!
Greetings from Panama.

[Edited 2004-07-31 18:47:22]
 
A388
Topic Author
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:59 am

Bobnwa (& Geoffm),

Thanks for the clarification. I have corrected the misspellings, thanks. And for everybody else, thanks for the comments  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards A388
 
sleak76
Posts: 306
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:57 am

Interesting site A388. Just finished going through the different pics.

I was surprised to the the BMI baby with the 'Visit Wales' ad all over it's fuselage. Looked very nice. Reminds me of BA and how Wales also advertises on BA's in-flight channels. Guess Wales is really trying to promote itself. Good for them.

As for the Eritrean Airways aircraft (wonderful lovery) and you raised a good question in your site with regards to their logo. I assumed it would have to be their flag.

Going to the CIA Factbook, to see more info on their flag, I see the colors of the flag are green, red and blue with the gold wreath. They pretty much represented their country's flag colorings into their paint scheme (notice the aircraft's blue shade is the same as that of the flag), with the gold (wreath on flag) stylized differently on the plane. Quite nice, I have to say.

Here's the URL for the Eritrean glaf I used to help me figure out their livery.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/er-flag.html

Good site (and I see your point re. the 744 coming in close to the departing NWA). Saw your post last week regarding this - and it's always useful to have a pic to backup a story.

Cheers.
'Place your ad here'. Only $9.95 per post made.
 
A388
Topic Author
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:15 am

Hi Sleak76,

Thanks for you comments and the information about the Eritrean flag, I also thaught their livery/logo had something to do with their natoinal flag. You are right about photos being useful to back up any story. The case here with the NW DC-10 and KL 744 was indeed a very interesting story, which not many people believed. I hope by showing them my photo (through my website), that I am believed now  Wink/being sarcastic

Selam alaikum Sleak76 and regards to everybody else  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

A388
 
SPREE34
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:46 am

Simultaneous arrival and departure from the same runway is fairly standard in many places. There was plenty of room.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
A388
Topic Author
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:54 am

SPREE34,

I know simultaneous arrival and departure from the same runway is common. It's just that not many people believed me when I said the Buitenveldert runway was used in this way. As for the situation with the NW DC-10 and KL 744, there probably was enough room, else it wouldn't have occured, but it was very very close, I would think. In case the DC-10 had gotten an engine failure, the 744 would probably have not enough room to take off again, without any incident as these aircraft were coming very close to each other at a certain point. ATC as well as pilots do make mistakes, we're all humans. I'm not the expert, it happened and it looked scary but exciting, that's all I would like to say.

A388
 
meister808
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:55 am

Well as long as both are not occupying the runway at the same time everything is ok. If the DC-10 had to abort the takeoff, the 747 would go around. I don't know how long the runway is, but I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 feet, so even if the 747 touched down briefly while accelerating for a go around(yes that would be a legal loss of seperation and someone, either the controller, the 747 guys, or both would have hell to pay) there wouldn't be any real safety threat because there are 2 miles between the DC-10 at one end and the 747 at the other. Things wouldn't start getting really ticklish unless the 747 had an engine out on the go around.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
A388
Topic Author
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:01 am

Thanks for the info Meister (and SPREE34 as well). It was interesting to see  Wink/being sarcastic

A388
 
Tristar100
Posts: 306
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:22 am

Great photos mate, a good website too.

Great photos, good info and all communicating together in a friendly and happy manner is what our hobby on this website is all about.

Who cares if our punctuation is not to someones taste, the odd spelling error. Its about sharing our great hobby with each other,

So keep up the good work and sod the picky people.

Cheers, Steve.
 
A388
Topic Author
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:02 am

Amen to that Tristar100  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

A388  Wink/being sarcastic
 
EnoreFilho
Posts: 54
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Phot

Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:41 am

Checking the photo of NW taking-off and KL approaching, I assure you that there was no danger of collision, unless the NW DC-10 rejected its take-off.

If that happen, there would be a big mess.....  Acting devilish

P.S.: That photo really shows that "Ship Hole" is no longer the safety airport as it use to be, receiving prizes also!!!
Member of the all mighty Canudos Air Force!!!!
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1236
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:02 am

I am familiar with the Polderbaan runway at AMS, but which specific runway are you talking about when you say "Buitenveldert"?
 
MoodyBlues
Posts: 140
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:13 am

Nice pics friend, you are lucky to live close enough to an airport with that variety of aircraft. Keep it coming  Smile
Southwest Airlines "A Symbol of Freedom"
 
Tasha
Posts: 537
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:07 pm

"Checking the photo of NW taking-off and KL approaching, I assure you that there was no danger of collision, unless the NW DC-10 rejected its take-off."

Exactly!!! that what makes this so dangerous. Unexcusable!!!

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:16 pm

If you look at the photo you'll notice the landing is at the 27 while the departure is on 18L.
You cannot aircraft lining up on the 09 from the position you took that shot.
I wish I were flying
 
Karlok
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:58 pm

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:32 pm

With strong winds buitenveldert (09-27) is used for take-off and landing see here:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Kar-lok Wong
View Large View Medium

Photo © Kar-lok Wong



Absolute no conflict at all.

And about the DC10 and the B744, once the B744 reached it's DH and the runway is still occupied, they will make a go around. So, once again absolute no dangerous situation here.


[Edited 2004-08-01 11:36:38]
 
A388
Topic Author
Posts: 7175
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:57 pm

Jwenting,

The aircraft on the photo (NW DC-10 & KL 744) were using the same runway (Buitenveldert runway), that's clearly visible on my photo. You just don't believe me huh. Just look at the direction both aircraft are pointed at or moving to. They are both into the same direction. I was standing on the spectator's terrace with the F-pier on my left and the E-Pier on my right (which is partially visible on my photo). Man, some people are blind or just can't except the truth!!!!!

A388
 
brian_ga
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 1:54 am

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:15 pm

A388, Great looking website !! I was able to visit AMS some years ago and loved the terrace views also. When you talked about standing in the rain for 4 hours that is true dedication to a hobby. Keep up the great work.

kind regards,
brian_ga  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Keep looking up, that's the secret to life....Snoopy
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1740
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:39 pm

A388,

Very nice website indeed, good info on the ex KLM 733 going to Kitty Hawk as well, good to know where they're coming from.
One edit that you may want to note...the pic of the COA 777 climbing out is actually bound for EWR as the 764 does the IAH flights currently. Otherwise, brilliant shots of everything out there!

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
sleak76
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:17 pm

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:51 pm

Not sure why alot are over-debating the possible 'collision' point of A388 with sentences like:

"once again absolute no dangerous situation here" and,

"Checking the photo of (NWA) taking-off and (KLM) approaching, I assure you that there was no danger of collision, unless the (NWA) DC-10 rejected its take-off."

"Well as long as both are not occupying the runway at the same time everything is ok"

Yet most seem to end with 'should the KLM suffer engine loss then it could be dangerous'.

Well.. Before jumping into his throat with constant rebuffing to his statements, I suggest one re-reads what he originally wrote in the begining of his thread. His thread is mainly about the use of the Buitenverldert runway (as some opposed his statement about that runway in an earlier thread he did) and hence him trying to prove otherwise (which he ultimately did).

As to the dangers of collision on runway. He didn't start off screaming that it was more of less bound to happen and it was miraculously avoided (hence people jumping into his throat with constant 'it wasnt that dangerous as long as...' type of sentences). All he said was "KL 744 was closely behind it almost touching down." Which, I believe is true from the picture (that is was closely behind).

It seems that some users are simply typing away for the sake of being 'seen'. Totally not reading the original post of the thread .. bothering to read 2 or 3 lines and quickly jumping to the 'reply' to post button. And just repeating what he has already said. For heaven's sake. Give the guy a break.

Encourage those to share with us and not just argue back for the sake of arguing.

Regards.

I applaud his homepage and his dedication to aviation (as brian_ga so rightly said), and sharing it with all of us! Good for him.

[Edited 2004-08-01 15:06:29]

[Edited 2004-08-01 15:08:30]
'Place your ad here'. Only $9.95 per post made.
 
Benus
Posts: 2
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:12 pm

Thanks for the link to your gallery, A388. Some nice pics. I am fortunate enough to have been to Schiphol several times this year, on a mixture of both business and pleasure. It is one of the best places I have been to for spotting aircraft. I live near London Gatwick, which unfortunately is surrounded by a mixture of fences and large coniferous hedges, plus many road signs warning car drivers not to stop on pain of being questioned by the local police, who circulate continuously (for understandable reasons, I guess).

I wouldn't worry too much about the odd errant apostrophe, or the greengrocers' apostrophe is it is known round here. Correct use of the apostrophe is something that the majority of Brits have yet to master. I would like to see some of the whingers here apostrophise (Ok, I made that word up) correctly in Dutch!
 
sleak76
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:17 pm

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:09 am

apostrophise (Ok, I made that word up)

Actually Benus that word does exist and, according to Webster's, it means just that: "to make use of apostrophe".

You got it, spot-on! Well done  Big thumbs up
'Place your ad here'. Only $9.95 per post made.
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:39 am

I do believe that, in dutch, it would be spelled "photo's", as that simply indicates plurals for some kinds of words (mostly imported words, I believe). Easy mistake to make!
Next flight.... who knows.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:37 am

Must have been a different photo then  Smile
I wish I were flying
 
geoffm
Posts: 2082
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Phot

Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:50 am

Tristar, I'm not being picky, I'm trying to be helpful (hence the smiley)! If you can teach one person one thing per day, then the world would be a better place, as they say. The odd typo, misspelling, or errant apostrophe is fine, but it does distract from the reading of the text if every 10-20th word is "wrong".

Geoff M.
 
newkai
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:39 pm

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:02 am

I just remember the captain of my OS flight from AMS to VIE saying something like "Well folks, it's going to take another twenty minutes until take-off, because for some reason the Dutch find it necessary to have six runways at this airport, and we're using the furthest one."

I guess not even six runways are enough!?
 
Blackbird1331
Posts: 1740
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:33 am

I hope Scottysair has read the last few posts.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
Tristar100
Posts: 306
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RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:28 am

Geoffm,

No probs buddy, my other half is an ex English teacher and I get pulled all the time (no, not like that).

I think that A388 has a great website and I can see that he has spent alot of time and effort to bring us good info.

Hope one day he can show us round the vantage points, perhaps buy in the beers aswell?

Steve.
 
A388
Topic Author
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:28 am

Thanks for all the positive comments. I do take pride in my photographing work, just like everybody else here does. Sleak76 (and others) thank you for defending my point. All I am trying to say is that the Buitenveldert runway is used for simultaneous landings and take-offs as shown on my photo's. Unfortunately not everybody wants to see that, for no reason actually. But oh well, I don't have time to waste my time on those who don't believe me. I provided the story, than I showed my photos to prove it, I can't do more than that.

I have added you on my respected users list Sleak76, if you don't mind.

Once again, thanks for all the positive comments my friends. Happy spotting to everybody out there  Wink/being sarcastic

A388  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Tristar100
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:08 am

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:39 am

Take care A388,

I will keep an eye on your website as I am planning a trip soon to AMS.

Go for it pal!

Steve.
 
A388
Topic Author
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:54 am

Hi Tristar100,

I'm happy to help anybody out here, I know the familiar places near the runways, thanks to my friends here. I usually go to the spectator's terrace, as you have great photographing opportunities here as well. When my friends (and I) have the time to go spotting near the runways, I don't say no to that  Wink/being sarcastic

Tristar100, when you have the dates when you are in Holland, just let me know and I'll let you know if I have time to meet you at Schiphol Airport. It all depends on my work. For everyone who doesn't have a car, the spectator's terrace offers very nice photographing opportunities too. You can also go to the Mc Donald's next to the Buitenveldert runway, which you can reach by public transport as well.

Regards,

A388
 
Karlok
Posts: 809
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:58 pm

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:17 pm

I also like the spectators terrace called (panorama terrace), but one think can ruin your photos........ Running APU's  Angry  Angry
 
A388
Topic Author
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Schiphol Airport Dangerous Situation, The Photo's

Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:22 pm

Haha,

I know exactly what you mean Karlok  Wink/being sarcastic

A388

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