carledwards
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American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:25 pm

Hey everyone,

I just surfed onto the BBC website and noticed this story staring at me. I dont think anyone else has mentioned it here in the forum, but it sure sounds interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3526864.stm

What is happening to free speech in the United States? I can understand that articles which may be offensive to other passengers should be put away, but this seems very over excessive for a t-shirt, especially as many of us wear shirts which some may consider rude from time to time!

I've also never heard of an airline throwing off a passenger for such a reason? how common is this?

Would be good to hear what everyone thinks about this!

Carl

[Edited 2004-08-02 12:35:34]
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ZKSUJ
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:30 pm

The link doesn't work, what is the reason?
 
sk945
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:34 pm

 
tbanger
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:35 pm

 
carledwards
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:36 pm

Hey sorry guys, I just updated it. Not used to posting links hehe.
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Womack17
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:57 pm

Well, this America after all - Maybe we can get Ashcroft to prosecute them and have them imprisoned. Maybe the flight crew called Jerry Falwell to get his advice before ordered the passenger to remove the shirt. Welcome to the Theocracy of American values. Personally I think this gentleman has one hell of a lawsuit he can pursue.
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An-225
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:58 pm

Oh my god, a boob. The end of the world must be coming...
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JMV
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:14 pm

Kudos to the AA flight crew. I'm glad to read some people have a sense of common decency and civility.
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JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:17 pm

Re: I'm glad to read some people have a sense of common decency and civility.

Or just that some puritanical Americans are so hung up about anything remotely sexual that the sight of a boob sends them off the deep end. Grow up, America ! BOOBS - 50% of the population have them, get over it.

Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
cedarjet
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:26 pm

JMV: "a sense of common decency and civility." So a human female breast is the height of indeceny and uncivilisation?

What's wrong with America? Why do they have this weird attitude about sex and women? The Taleban would approve.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
jasepl
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:27 pm

Fascism
Noun: A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:29 pm

For starters, Americans are usually much more sensitive to this sort of thing than Europeans.

Regardless of social mores, free speech has nothing to do with it. You are traveling on private property and are subject to the regulations of the carrier. Just like an employer or a restaurant having a dresscode.


It also amazes me how there is always someone who will refuse to comply. What exactly do the gain by this except to get thrown off the plane? What's the point? Do they really think they have won a victory for free speech?

[Edited 2004-08-02 13:35:25]
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7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:37 pm

How come everytime someone is asked to leave a plane in the US, there is immediately cries for a lawsuit!!?

The press only know a bit of the story and they report it. I'm sure there was a valid reason for their removal from the a/c, and I doubt very much the cabin crew 'yelled' at them as the pax claim.

I agree its harsh, but if the airlines T&Cs say they can refuse carriage for that reason, and they then do, IMO there is nothing anyone can do.


Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:39 pm

Nothing anyone can do except tell that crybaby to stop whining  Big grin
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carledwards
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:41 pm

Is there anyone online from AA, or any flight attendants, who may have more information on this type of incident and its likely causes?
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Jumpseat70
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:54 pm

Free Speech doesn't apply when you are on an airline.

If the shirt offended "anyone" least of all the F/A, then the Pax was in Violation when asked to remove it and they did not. Which then gives the airline the right to throw their country butts off. Flight Attendants have to keep everyone happy, not two immature, inconsiderate moronic individuals with no class.

I can tell you without question that I would NOT have allowed them to board my flight. And I work for Delta. Civility applies when you are in a public setting.
There are cultural mores and they knew that when they put the shirt on. They tested the system and they lost.

Cheers to the AA F/A with the guts to stand up for what she believes in. And the agents and pilots that followed suit.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
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N328KF
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:59 pm

I'm all for boobage, but sheesh, how about some class? You people are all rowled up about the censorship aspect, but I just think it's in poor taste is all.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
ltbewr
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:02 pm

An airline can prevent a passanger from boarding if they beheave in a way that may be offensive to other passangers. What if the shirt had a picture of a penis? Or used an offensive term like the 'F-word'? The issue here is that such a t-shirt is potentially offensive to many on the aircraft. Yes, we in the US are a bit puriantical about sexual matters but those whom may be offended by such 'speech' have a freedom of speech too to express that they are offended. That the person here apparently refused to be reasonable to change his shirt justified AA from disallowing boarding to this person.
 
kalakaua
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:03 pm

Show some class, and wear appropriate clothing. That person was just thinking about himself.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
su
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:08 pm

The spokesman said that American Airlines' policy clearly stated that someone "clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or offence to other passengers" can be removed from a flight.


how AA flight attendances can determine what passenger or passenger's cloth can cause discomfort or offence other passenger????

It that's the case then I can ask AA flight attendance to remove from the plane anyone I want...









"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:11 pm

SU

Thats plain stupid. I think its safe to assume a penis or a boob can offend.

A brightly coloured labrador wearing glasses is offensive to animal lovers!
It has to be within reason....

Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:14 pm

Who decides what clothing can cause offense ? What about colours that clash, or last years Prada ? It's one person's opinion. Did the FA in question bother to check with other pax on the flight if they would be offended ? The entire plane could have been full of porn actors or frat brothers off to Costa Rica for a strip-show 'n keg weekend. I guarantee there wouldn't have been a single complaint from other pax if the FA had let them board - she was just exercising her personal narrow-minded notions of decency.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
miaskies
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:16 pm

Wooo Hoooooooooooo...! This is the news??? I swear sometimes I think living in Miami is like living in another country, we just don't whine about things like this down here!

Get over it guys...it's American free speech! your not always going to agree with what you read and see but you need to respect it.
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Jumpseat70
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:16 pm

My point exactly! When you are stuck on a plane with people for 8 hours and you're the guy in charge...you want to have a level playing field.

The smallest irritants can cause great upheaval. Wearing the shirt was simply a matter of taste. It offended the F/A so guess what? she's in charge...so you get to play by HER rules.

Civil Liberties mean just that. You have to be Civil to have Liberty.
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Joni
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:19 pm


As an interesting continuation of the same theme, male passengers might complain that the flight attendants' clothes offend them and must be removed.

Or, imagine the horror on an AA flight if the caterers substitute penis-shaped pasta for regular pasta in the inflight meals. Or, imagine if the passenger's t-shirt had only been noticed after takeoff - the plane would obviously have to divert and be evacuated with slides. If this happened over sea, then an emergency landing in water would likely be necessary. After all, anything sexual is worse than a bomb.

 
JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:22 pm

Joni - good point. What happens if the pax had changed into the oh-so-offensive t-shirt after take-off ? Would the FA have had him arrested and shipped to Gitmo on arrival in Costa Rica (where I'm sure the local cops care oh so much for American prurience) ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:24 pm

Of course, it also asks the question "Why wasn't it noticed at checkin"

Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
carledwards
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:25 pm

How about if AA were to set down a specific dress code, or uniform for passengers, on their tickets? Maybe they could all wear grey Fly American T-shirts, with red and blue trousers!

[Edited 2004-08-02 14:29:39]
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JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:26 pm

Re: "Why wasn't it noticed at checkin"

According to the article, the pax in question was on an inbound connecting flight, so not only did the check-in at his origin not mind the t-shirt, the crew and pax on the first leg of his journey didn't mind either.
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7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:29 pm

Here is an interesting (if not slightly off-topic) thought then - how do naturists comply with these policies? No luggage and a small bag with only a toothbrush in?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:31 pm

7LBAC111 - I believe there was a naturist charter flight out of MIA or FLL this year sometime, I forget to where - pax were asked to bring towels to sit on. I hope none of the FA's spilled coffee on anyone.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:37 pm

And you can bet if they spilt any coffee, they'd be sued!
 Laugh out loud
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UN_B732
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:46 pm

Long Live American!
She made the decision to wear a t-shirt with naked boobs, potentially offending children, minors, and other people who do not care for boobs on t-shirts. She was offered to change the t-shirt, but she didn't, thus she continued to have the possibility of offending other people, and they kicked her off of the aircraft, which was the proper thing to do, because she selfishly continued wearing the t-shirt, even though she knew it could create graphic images, be a negative influence on the younger passengers, and some people could simply say it contributes to a negative atmosphere on board of the aircraft.
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su
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:47 pm

Hey Jumpseat70,

Who is there to judge the appropriation of dress?

Let's say If me and my friend were on your flight and there also were a priest in a plane and his/her dress would offend us. According to AA's policy we can ask the FA to remove the priest from the plane.... Where is the logic in there?
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:51 pm

Su,

As I said previously, there are certain things which cause offence to the general population - sexual images, religious / political statements etc.

However, I doubt anyone could say that a priest's attire is offensive!
If you asked a priest to be removed from a plane because his big white dress offended you, I think I would have you removed for being a sandwich short of a picnic  Big grin




[Edited 2004-08-02 14:53:35]
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:52 pm

Re: potentially offending children, minors, and other people who do not care for boobs on t-shirts

I think you'll find that most small children, to their parents' eternal and very public mortification, are fully aware of what boobs are, and that a lot of people have them. As the owner of 3 small nieces and a nephew, and who has had 'boobies' pointed out to me by them several times, I can attest to this. And are they warped by this awareness, or psychologically scarred ? Er... no. Only I was  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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gkirk
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:54 pm

They should have just turned the shirt inside out
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yhmfan
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:56 pm

Assume you are about to board a plane with your 7 year old and some guy is wearing a T-shirt with really crude profanities on it. You 7 year old reads and repeats it..... How would you feel?
Let us not debate whether the depiction of female breasts on a T-shirt is obsene. (It is all a matter of perspective)
The point is freedom of speech cannot be absolute. (Try the theory next time you are going through security at the airport and say something inappropriate. See how much time the security personnel will spend pondering your freedom of speech rights before hauling you away!!!! )
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Starlionblue
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:59 pm

JGPH1A: Hear hear. I was just going to say. Children are normally much less bothered than their parents by this sort of thing.

I am sure you agree that kids whose parents attemts to shield them from all this stuff at all costs are the ones more at risk from growing up screwed up. Reality won't stop happening just because you shield your kids from it!

When I was a kid, I was on topless beaches (quite normal in Italy). Hell, even my mother went topless! What's the big deal?


Having said that, AA has the right to refuse service to anyone. Again, what's the big deal? I think if these bozos had used both their braincells at once they would have figured out that changing the T-shirt would have avoided a lot of grief.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:07 pm

Starlion - I agree with you that attempting to shield kids from nudity is pointless and counterproductive - kids are not stupid. They know from a very early age that boys and girls are different, and as embarrassing and awkward as it might be, parents have to deal with that as honestly as possible without turning it into a big deal. I'm not suggesting kids should see porn or anything, but they aren't going to be scarred going to a topless beach for instance.

I'm pretty sure that kids who grow up without religious and moral angst about their bodies (and those of other people) will be generally happier and less hung-up (and obsessed) as adults.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
su
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:09 pm

But again 7LBAC111,

Who determines the appropriation of clothing?

Why should the priest get away with his dress but if a man wearing t-shirt with boobs be taken out?

And what about Crying baby at 3:00 in the morning? It is the MOST offensive and annoying thing can happened in the plane and I am sure that ALL the passengers would agree to remove that baby from the plane.

"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
burg400
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:11 pm

Here's a twist, What if it had been a Buxom Women wearing a tight figure hugging T-Shirt with no means of support, Would there be a problem with the real thing?
Would she be asked to put a Bra on ?.
Golf " A good walk Wasted" not the way I play
 
7LBAC111
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:16 pm

SU

I think you and I have different interpretations of 'offensive'

I do not find a crying baby offensive - I find it annoying, but there is little can be done to prevent that. Babies cry. I personally wouldn't find a t-shirt featuring a pair of tits offensive either (  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ) but a lot of people might.

This can be addressed by simply changing the t-shirt (or as GKIRK says by turning it inside out) but these halfwits by all accounts argued and refused. Therefore, in line with AA's conditions of carriage, they were removed.

The determination of offensive clothing is most probably anything that would be considered 'of graphic nature' and AFAIK priests clothing does not fall into that category.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
goingboeing
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:18 pm

What is happening to free speech in the United States?

Common misconception. Free speech is alive and well in the US. Re-read the amendment and you will notice the key words" Congress shall enact no law..." Congress did not remove the person from the plane, American Airlines did. And American Airlines is free to do whatever they would like.
 
clipperno1
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:30 pm

I have to wear my "Sock It To Me" T-Shirt on my next AA flight.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
carledwards
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:32 pm

Goingboeing,

Well you are quite right in saying that American Airlines removed the person from the plane, and not any part of the United States government.
I would be interested to find out their exact reasons for doing so, and I'm very surprised that the management seem to have backed the crew 100%.

Carl
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JGPH1A
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:35 pm

Re: I'm very surprised that the management seem to have backed the crew 100%.

So will AA management censure the flight crew of the inbound connecting flight for NOT insisting that the pax remove the offending item of clothing ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
su
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:40 pm

Good point JGPH1A

If the person was able to fly the first leg in that tshirt, does that mean that the first leg's crew and passengers have "low standards" and did not get offended?
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
KateAV8
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:48 pm

Hmmm, I'm a little torn here...

The article says:
"The flight attendant basically walked up to us and yelled, 'You have to take off that shirt right now'."

First of all if this is true, I'll bet that guy would have been more willing to comply had the FA been a little more tactful about it.

Second of all, how the he** has it come about that people in this country have turned into such big babies? Everybody is SO sensitive & obsessed with being politically correct! And it's not like everybody on that plane would've had to stare at the boob on that t-shirt for the entire flight! I mean, it wouldn't have been a big deal for that guy to turn the shirt inside out...but PLEASE! If something offends you, it's not the end of the world! Just look away!!!

Cheers!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Kate
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mattnrsa
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RE: American Kicks Off Passenger With Rude T-shirt

Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:56 pm

While I had no problem with Janet Jackson's "nipplegate" incident earlier this year, it is hard for any of us to comment on the American incident without seeing the shirt. The AA spokesperson said the shirt was "more graphic" than described by the couple. If it displayed graphic sexuality, then I agree that it should not have been worn on the plane. If it was something more artistic that happened to show a breast, then not a huge deal.

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