Kennedy1
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Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:25 pm

I just found out I'll be heading to London in the spring (PHX-LHR-PHX) and was just playing around on ticket pricing. According to the British Airways site, a first class ticket would cost over $14,000. How many international travellers are paying full F class fares? I'd have to assume most F class passengers are upgrades. Am I correct? However, last Feb. my brother travelled from St. Louis to Rome r/t in business class on Alitalia and his ticket was in the neighborhood of $2,000, which even to myself (a middle class poor college student) is fairly reasonable.
 
ual747den
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:35 pm

The people that are paying for the First Class tickets do not care what the price is. They are the people that call their credit card company and say book me a ticket from here to here and it is done, no mention of price. The other people that are frequent FC Fliers are Executives and Celebrities. When not flying on a private jet they still want the comfort and privacy, also if you are trying to sell a company something and fly their people in to give them a sale pitch, you surly aren't going to ask them to sit in Business are you? Now the other people are like you and I the people that splurge sometime! (For me it is when I am traveling alone, my wife would kill me if she knew I paid for first!)
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
daumueller
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:36 pm

(For me it is when I am traveling alone, my wife would kill me if she knew I paid for first!)

so would my gf - that's why I'd never tell her  Smile
 
baw716
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:59 pm

Me too...I just walk up to the counter and pay the $50-150 one way and go on...and no, I am not currently an airline employee. I pay just like everyone else.

Anyway, one should never pay more than $3500 for Business to Europe or $5000 round trip for First. If you are paying more than that, you are paying too much. I sell premium fares to my clients at far below regular prices...so do a lot of others. You just have to be a little careful about the sourcing of the ticket.

Published fares from the west coast to Europe in Business in the winter are around $2300 rt, but with a 50 day advance purchase and limited inventory. If you need it right at the last minute, it can be done for the $3500-5000 I mentioned above. You just need someone who can get it for you.

Why pay full price if you don't have to.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:10 pm

One should keep in mind that the majority of the people that do travel in First are invited by the airline to do so. Most of them are Chairmans/FCO's/CEO's of huge companies, that even though they are getting these "perks", the airline knows the amount of business that it will bring when the 'commoners' of these co operations travel in Business or even Economy. (1 upgrade or free ticket may = 50 paid for business class seats)
As stated before I say that you should look around for last minute deals that are available to you before dealing directly with the airline!

 
QantasffCL
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:29 pm

Yeah you are all right, but I mean my fathers company, you book J, you get F. OR if you book an award flight Sydney to London (not ONE SINGLE J seat left for six months) they charge economy you get first. I mean he spends AUD$100000 with them and holds a Chairmans Lounge membership.

This is probably the same for the 1,000 odd businessmen/celebrities of his position.
 
na
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:30 pm

14.000$ PHX-LHR-PHX? That´s a joke.
And twice as much as I paid to fly on Thai First from AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-SYD, and that´s almost 3 times the mileage. (btw my company paid it because it was the same price a business class on LH).
Honestly, I would never buy a firstclass-ticket from my private purse. Its not worth it if you´re not a millionaire.
Remember: for 14.000$ you could book a suite on the Queen Mary 2, your wife´s travelling for free, and a return ticket is included. That´s really something unique worth paying for.
 
UbiDenmark
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:04 pm

In our company, which is the biggest in the world in its field, only members of the executive travel first class. All senior managers travel Business Class.
 
BCAL
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:24 pm

Who actually pays full first class fares? I think this fits into five groups:

1. Fat cats
2. Senior executives of large companies on an all expenses paid trip
3. Celebrities
4. Politicians on an all expenses paid trip, courtesy of the taxpayer
5. People with more money than common sense!

If you not in any of the above, you will probably be in business class or economy class, if not paying the lowest first class fare.

I have not included friends/family of airline staff who are often upgraded when space permits, as they do not pay the fare.


[Edited 2004-08-03 12:27:01]
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
komododx
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:06 pm

My boss travels first most of the time in several OneWorld carriers (Mainly BA/CX and business EI) and some people might think it's a waste, but I don't think it is when you have to go from LHR to SYD, then back to LHR, then to JNB and then to DUB all within the minimum amount of time, while working in the plane and being able to get back to the office with all the energy in the world to take care of the business that happened while he was away.

KdX
I'm homeless and unemployed
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:13 pm

a) People with more money than sense
b) People spending other people's money

If you knew the huge margin airlines have on F and J fares, you'd never want to pay full fare again ! It is an unbelievable rip-off.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:30 pm

I often fly F/C full fare from DTW to the coast, I do this because it is often hard to get an upgrade, even as a platinum elite. There are other times, when I must be somewhere and F/C is all that is available for the time I want to travel.

When NW had international first class, I always paid full fare, it was a dark day in my life when NW eliminated that service.

I am not someone "with more money than sense", nor spending "other peoples money", it is just that life is short, and why not make the most of it! I often need to work on the way, and you can really get a lot more done when you have the space.

My father, when he traveled always flew F/C, although he started out flying when that is all there was, ah those where they days!

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
pilatusguy
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:02 pm

In my previous company, the Chairman&CEO were allowed to fly First on long haul (>5hours) and business on short/medium.

In my current company, longhaul is business - short/medium is economy or corp. jet if you're a large enough group (or a family member .... it's a huge family company).

No one will sign your expenses for first class anymore... it's just not worth the money (I've been on LX's F-class twice thanks to overbooked flights)
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:09 pm

don't forget the honeymooners! i love having them on my first class cabin. i enjoy spoiling these love birds to death, since most of the business/executive pax tend to turn down the full first class service (they want their appetiser, main course and usually wanted to be left alone afterwards). but the honeymooners, they appreciate the 7 course meal and usually we even have a special cake prepared for them, to congratulate them on their marriage.
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:11 pm

Several of my colleagues routinely get upgraded to F/C. They are in the "Chariman's Executive Platinum Toilet Seat" FF category so they automatically get "best available seat".

My parents fly around the world in F/C every few years. This is for them what cruises are for other retirees. The fares on F/C round the world can be comparatively competive, and they use the FF miles they make (doubled since they pay with an Airline credit card) to travel for almost nothing the rest of the time. That last bit practically pays for the trip!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
sebwhite
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:57 pm

Earlier this year, I flew BOS-LAX with a colleague. Each of our tickets cost almost $1800 one way. Thank god I didn't pay - my company did. It may be surprising, but there are still huge numbers of companies that pay for full fare first class, especially in financial services. 3 hours + automatically means getting first class.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:17 pm

My company lets us fly Business Class if the flight is over 4 hours, but I think you have to be Deputy Vice Bwana to get First Class.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
gigneil
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:22 pm

Who actually pays full first class fares? I think this fits into five groups:

At many major corporations, if the flight is longer than 8 or 11 hours you buy a first class seat. Over 5 or 6 hours you buy a business class seat.

These days, if we buy an unrestricted domestic ticket we get F, and if we buy an unrestricted C ticket we get F.

Corporate contracts are the mainstay of airline business.

N
 
NYCAAer
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:02 pm

I work in the first class cabin often on flights between JFK and LHR. You never know who will turn up there as a full fare. Sometimes you get a wealthy Arab sheik and his family, all full fare. Once I had a wealthy family from the Philippines who traveled to London and New York just to go shopping! I've also had a few celebrities in first class recently- Brad Pitt, Helen Gurley Brown, Ralph Lauren, Laura Linney, Petula Clark, Debbie Harry, Corey Affleck, Summer Phoenix and Lynne Cheney.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:27 pm

I never flew in First Class because I can't afford it, the only chance for me to fly in First is an upgrade because I would never spend so much money for a flight, even if I would have it.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
N6376M
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:10 am

You guys have forgotten one major grouping of people who pay full fare f class - consultants at the big firms. When I was in public accounting, the firm required that we always buy a fully refundable ticket even when we went to firm training. The difference between a fully fare coach and first class seat is often just a matter of dollars. The clients got billed for the tickets so it really didn't impact the firm's profitability.

Given everything that's gone on in the accounting world, this may no longer be the rule, but my friends in industry tell me that a lot of this still goes on.

Finally, about 7 years ago, several NBA referees had a little run in with the IRS. Their contract with the league required the ref's to travel first class. A couple of them would cash in the tickets, pocket the difference in fare between a full fare first class seat and a coach seat, then use miles or status to upgrade themselves to first. They never declared the gain as income and the IRS caught them.
 
miaskies
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:26 am

It is quite expensive, here is an example; MIA to LHR - First Class on AA and BA:


- Select Price Per Person 12882.40 USD - > BRITISH AIRWAYS - 744 - 2daily

- Select Price Per Person 12918.40 USD - > AMERICAN - 777 - 1daily

ITS CRAZY! VERY EXPENSIVE.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
kl911
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:34 am

Only stupid people book full fare F class, since business class is good enough to sleep, drink, eat and work, even during an 18 hour flight.
 
sebwhite
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:13 am

First class SFO & LAX-LHR tops $15,000 round trip, nonstop on BA, but it's not the most expensive US-LON route, which is BOS!

Cost per mile of first class seat on some popular LON routes, based on nonstops:

$0.81-NRT
$1.27-YYZ
$1.30-IAH
$1.37-LAX
$1.46-MIA
$1.52-SEA
$1.55-IAD
$1.77-JFK
$1.90-BOS

 
D950
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:22 am

I feel terible, I recently flew UAL, LGA-LAX-MCO-LGA for just under $400 and flew first on all legs!!
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:29 am

I just flew jetBlue and believe it or not, I felt like I was getting first class service. Does that count? (sat Row 12 Exit....if that makes a difference)

 Big grin
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
miaskies
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:33 am

Hehehehe feel worst...I am flying AA B763ER from MIA to SFO at the end of the month on Business Class (labeled as First Class on these routes) for just USD$215.00  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
sebwhite
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:57 am

I just flew first on LGA-BOS for $73.00 one way! Thank you Mr. Upgrade!

[Edited 2004-08-03 18:57:51]
 
joleb
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:24 am

people:
1)prices online are never what people actually pay. fares online are rediculous so never purchase online ! please consult a travel agent for much better fares for the exact same tickets.
2)you should realise that most people who travel first almost never pay full fare first. except if nothing else is available.
there are several booking classes in First (F,P to name 2)

an F can differ sometimes up to 3000 euros from a P and its the exact same ticket.

2)the price differs from europe to the usa or from the usa to australia or to south america

When I fly AF or BA i usually pay 4000 to 6000 Euro roundtrip to the USA in first.

when i fly on DL from the usa to south america the price for a business ticket is 5600 euro and the comfort is nowhere near First.

I have seen the prices vary very much.

A First on SQ from europe to singapore is around 5500euros
although a first on QF from LAX to SYD is about 10 to 12000euros

 
GaleaoCumbica
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:26 am

Hi all!!

I will never pay! It is too much money!!

But my friend who works in a travel agency, here in London, just called me to say that he has a ticket with TAM from LHR to GRU via CDG (first flight with AF), in business class for £ 1.295 plus taxes!
Not bad for a 12 hours flight!

Enjoy your trip!

GaleaoCumbica
 
Imonti
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:49 am

I have never booked a ticket on-line, for the simple reason I once tried online for BA and then thought this cant be write and then got the travel agent to book it and the difference was about $2000, I then called BA and they said no its something, they had no excuse what ever ever.

I am a student and hence I cant work a job that pays that well but that isnt the point. I am very fortunate that I travel in First Class and it is wow. To be dead honest my dad doesnt really look at prices, he will ask which of the airlines he wants to go on flies from A to B and then generally who is cheapest on who he wants to fly he will get tickets booked on them. When he travels for work he just travels what ever is the most convient and practical, regardless of the ticket price.
 
Imonti
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:51 am

One thing thou, on BA website it does say restricted and unrestricted first, of course you buy the restricted as there seems to be no difference in what you can do with regard to changing of tickets, no one has ever had a problem with a "restricted" first class ticket being told sorry you cant move flights etc.
 
warren747sp
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:00 am

Thru Mileage redemption.
it typically cost 80000 miles for biz class and 100000 miles for first class.
BA first class product is much better than J class so it is definitely worth the extra 20000 miles.
I only fly first class domestic (Unlimited free upgrade) and biz class international.
747SP
 
sonyericsson
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:18 am

if you look at ba.com and search for fares to CPT from Europe or America,
First restricted is cheaper than business class unrestricted.
so no way to fly business for me..

altough it seems strange, but i think only by knows why........
 
Imonti
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:18 am

Refering to people who have made the comments if you pay for full fare then you have more money than sense, in order to have that kind of money you need a lot of sense. Yes the people who have paid for First do know what the huge mark up is on their ticket, same as flying on your own jet, when you can fly first, its your choice and if you can afford it and want to do it then do it. Let me give you a classic example, my dad will take off from Joburg on Sunday night and arrive in London on Monday morning, he is a terrible sleeper, he get on the plane, puts the seat out and goes to sleep, wakes up and goes straight to meetings, works the entire day, is there for a few days and comes home again. I think every one can agree, going to work especially on monday is much better after you have had sleep. P.S. he pays for all his flying including business trips out of his own pocket and his business doesnt pay, which you can call crazy but he couldnt care, he is also the majority share holder.
 
VC-10
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:39 am

When BA lost the Concorde subsidies and had to make a profit out of the machine they surveyed the Concorde pax to see how much they thought they were paying. The pax thought they were paying a lot more than they actually were, so BA put up the prices to match!
 
kith
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:37 am

What is a full first fare, I know coach is Y, what about first? Im booked in CO BusinessFirst in Z which from SYR-EWR-CDG and back form $1900.31 im very happy with. It may not be full businessfirst class but it will be just as nice.
I also work for a charter jet company, and the people who fly on our jets are head, shoulders and torso above the "wealthy" who pay full first. Full first is usually business at the last minute. Ex. 15k roundtrip NYC-ATH vs. 98K roundtrip NYC-ATH on GIV. -Matt in KITH
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:18 am

Only stupid people book full fare F class, since business class is good enough to sleep, drink, eat and work, even during an 18 hour flight.


Really? As was pointed out, those people have had the sense to earn (or inherit  Big grin) their money. Let them spend it as they will. As for my parents, they just like to pamper themselves. The trip in itself becomes an experience.


I have also noticed a considerable difference in attitudes between our American friends and the rest of us. Domestically in the US, there is First and Monkey, no Biz (in most cases). But domestic First in the US is more like Biz in the rest of the world. No real huge space. Just wider seats and more legroom, plus free booze.

In Europe Biz means very little more than (depending on carrier) a wider seat and free champagne.

So when the Americans say their company pays for First over a certain number of hours, this would be equivalent of a Eurocompany paying for Biz.


Many European companies pay for Biz for trips over eight hours, conveniently putting New York within the Monkey Class range. Sneaky bastarts  Big grin


For myself, my company pays Monkey Class no matter how far I fly. No matter, as often as I will get the upgrades soon enough.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
7E7
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:49 am

>>Joleb

You're Perfectly right.
EK tickets for first (from MEL the least) actually list the full price, but only pay less than half. ex: $11508AU -> Paid $5400AU. The booking class is even F.

On GF, it is a different class (A), but still lists the full price.

Indeed, the trip itself becomes an experience; For many, they prefer to use the saved money on eco to spend it in their holidays (which amounts a lot, specially for couples and families).

Sometimes airlines give out (book for two- pay for one) fares for first class. Though noticed that the fare listed there is in between the full fare and the discounted one.
 
trickijedi
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:20 am

I feel terible, I recently flew UAL, LGA-LAX-MCO-LGA for just under $400 and flew first on all legs!!

Yeah but First Class on domestic routes is far, far different than FC on international routes. Domestic FC is a joke on some airlines. In my opinion, unless you get a suite, you're not in First.
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
captain777
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:38 am

I just heard that in Kuwait Airways if you are in economy you could upgrade to First class whilst inside the aiplane,it would be much more cheaper, for a trip from Kuwait Int' to Charle-de-gaulle would cost about 50 Kuwaiti dinars about 17 US dollars if i'm not mistaken. But not all people know about this.


Regards
the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
 
Carpethead
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:15 pm

I work for a medium-sized company in Japan and my company allows anyone traveling outside Asia on Biz and Econ within Asia. The Upper Execs, I believe are Biz everywhere except maybe the Prez, First on long hauls.
On personal travels it doesn’t matter Biz or Econ, but mostly Econ because I don’t wish to spend money for 12 hours of extra space (will try to upgrade though). However, when one has to do work on the plane, the extra room is what sets it apart. Why have a seat back in your face while typing on the PC. I and everybody else who can relate don’t need the harsh environment of Econ. Sometimes, I feel there is no reason to fly Biz but the company books for it, but I am not complaining. We primarily book long-haul int’l flights through our travel agent, and they never pay the full Biz or Econ fare. Always some discounted pric
 
sllevin
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RE: Who Actually Pays Full First Class Fares?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:19 pm

First Class is like many things in the worst. It costs a disproportionate amount more for what you get. The same is true of hotels, cars, watches, and computers. But there are significant markets for each, as proven over and over again.

If I have to fly from SFO to LHR because of a faltering negotiation, and I fly economy, don't get any real rest, and arrive into the office flat on my face, don't get the deal closed, and lose ten million dollars in business (with, say $2,500,000 in profit in the deal) -- how stupid does saving that $10,000 sound?

There are many scenarios like that. Business travel is a lot less glamourous than it sounds. Flying every week is physically and mentally draining -- especially when you factor in all the poor sleep you get from time changes, etc. Then the little things -- as expensive as they are -- make more and more sense.

Steve