luv2fly
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:43 pm

US hedging the bet in case George W gets handed the election for the next 4 years.......
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Bicoastal
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:44 pm

Do you have an opinion or thought on this? Why just post a link?

Apparently US Airways does this every now and then whenever one of their flights is cancelled at a station and they have no replacement equipment on site or other flights. It doesn't matter who the passengers are.

Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:43 pm

This is done at DL as well. A couple times a week DL will flagstop a flight to pick up or drop off passengers that have been inconvenienced. For instance if a ATL-TYS flight is cancelled. DL could move the folks to a lightly loaded ATL-PIT flight and flagstop the aircraft in TYS to drop off the inconvenienced TYS passengers.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
broke
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:36 pm

USAir used to cancel flights or flight legs when the level of bookings did not reach a certain level. They decided to stop that when they stranded Ralph Nader at ISP.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
He was not a happy puppy.
 
CALMSP
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:30 pm

this just seems a little out of the way.............and all those people happened to be going to BOS? Like the example above....ATL-TYS they would stop a flight going to PIT which was headed in the same direction. Does anyone know if the flight got any compensation for the original pax?
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:41 pm

It probably was the only flight that late that was going anywhere near ALB destined for DCA. I would imagine as well that a Shuttle flight late Saturday night didn't have that many passengers needing compensation. I wouldn't be surprised if the 22 pax boarded in ALB were more than the pax on the plane to start with.
It kind of shows how devalued the US Shuttle has become. DL would never dream of doing this with their scheduled Shuttle operation even on the weekend. Already being 20 mins late is bad enough for the Shuttle.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
airtran737
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:54 pm

Flagstops happen all of the time. I'm sure that the Bush twins had little effect on US Airways decision making process. They calculated the cost of fimming the pax, plus delay compensation, plus the cost of hotel and meal vouchers, and it came out to be less than the flagstop cost.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Bicoastal
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:10 am

CALMSP, the Shuttle was not going to Boston. According to the Washington Post (not that one should ever believe that rag), the Shuttle was flying FROM Boston to DCA. The cancelled flight from Albany was also going to DCA. It's not that far out of the way. The Post also said the twins went out bar hopping in Georgetown after arriving in Washington. Gotta' love healthy, partying American young women!
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
alphascan
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:32 am

USAir used to cancel flights or flight legs when the level of bookings did not reach a certain level. They decided to stop that when they stranded Ralph Nader at ISP.

A couple of weeks ago there was a thread titled "Airline Myths". This post belongs there.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
AA717driver
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:44 am

I've done it at TWA and I know AA does it. It would have been a scandal if SAM had dispatched a GV to go pick them up.

Maybe they should have asked Terrrreeeeezzzzzaaaahhhh if she would stop by in her GV and give the girls a lift.  Big grin TC
FL450, M.85
 
bristolflyer
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:49 am

I'd imagine most a.netters would love this - an extra take off and landing! And the opportunity to stare at those 2 girls - they're pretty fit! Wouldn't fancy a 'meet the parents' session though.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:08 am

This is all BS. The only reason this was done is because of those two drunk
daughters of George Dubya!!


There is no indication they were drunk, indeed if they were, US would likely have denied boarding. Perhaps you should get your facts straight. The fact that they like to drink socially does not make them drunks, but merely normal young Americans.

Given that Pakistan is run by a dictator, and give than Pakistanis have few if any freedoms, should you be politicizing this benign airline scheduling adjustment as some sort of Presidential decree?






I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
MCOtoATL
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:08 am

I would be frustrated if I was on the plane that was diverted. Did the Bush twins have anything to do with causing the airline to make the choice. Probably. Although whenever there is a famous person who causes a diversion, there will always be cries of preferential treatment (there was controversry when Hillary Clinton caused a flight to be diverted years ago.)

PIA777, your comments are somewhat out of line. Some college girls get drunk and they are labeled as alcoholics? I'm sure we could all come up with tons of not-so-flattering stereotypes about people from Pakistan.
 
boeingpride800
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:24 am

I really think US Airways messed up bad. They couldn't have been more unprofessional.
 
NWAFA
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:35 am

Regardless if US does this often or not, you can bet for sure that since the brat twins were there, that was the reason!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:41 am

Even if the diversion was the best solution for US, it looks bad from an optics standpoint for Bush. His daughters handlers should have insisted they wait for the next scheduled flight.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
PennPal
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:43 am

I've had this happen to me in the past. I was flying from CMH to ATL on Eastern back in 1988...the plane was grounded for some technical reason, so the airline diverted a flight from BUF-ATL to pick us up. And I can assure you, there were no members of the Bush family there to blame the incident on. As Aa717driver stated...would it have been better if they had sent a government plane to pick them up?!?!?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:58 am

OK, first off, we're not talking "diversions" here, but un-scheduled stops, or what we call "flagstops". The terms "divert/diversion" are used when an aircraft can't get into a scheduled destination (WX, MX) and has to go to an alternate airport. Yes, I know that might appear to be quibbling about semantics, but if you want to know how it "really" works from an operational standpoint, that's it, and that's the terminology. (Never expect to hear proper terminology from PR-folks).

Flagstops are not something that gets done every day, nor are they an airline's first choice in solving a problem caused when another aircraft breaks down somewhere, since some pax are being inconvenienced. As is usually the case, there are a number of variables involved. One variable that -doesn't- enter into our decisionmaking processes is whether there are any VIPs within the group of "stranded" pax--a stranded pax is a stranded pax, period. Those chiming in on this thread claiming that UAIR's flagstop was purely because the Prez's 2 daughters were amongst the stranded pax conveniently ignore the fact that 20 other folks who weren't the Prez's daughters were also stranded. Neither were UAIR's actions "unprofessional". All airlines do flagstops on occasion, and it's a tactical response/reaction to an operational problem, and not an attitude.

A funny thing about flagstops is that their value seems to be heavily influenced by which side of the equation one is on. If you're a pax that's being delayed because of a flagstop, you might not be thrilled about the delay. If you're one of the stranded pax that's being "rescued" by the flagstopped aircraft, you tend to view things like you've just gotten a seat on the last flight out of Saigon....  Big grin

[Edited 2004-08-04 19:02:15]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:01 am

this happens on a rutine basis (not too often, but it is normal). I think the fact the the Bush twins were on the plane was a pluc, although, not the cause of the flag stop. It helped get the USAirways name in the press!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
AWspicious
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:24 am

I wonder how many of the 22 were actually part of the twin's entourage...
Heck, I would have been more than willing to make the flagstop for the dynamic duo ;-]
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
PIA777
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:33 am

"Given that Pakistan is run by a dictator, and give than Pakistanis have few if any freedoms, should you be politicizing this benign airline scheduling adjustment as some sort of Presidential decree?"

Yyz717,

Since you have never been to Pakistan, let me tell you how it is there. When I visit, there is nothing I cannot do. I have all the freedom in the world.
You are confusing Pakistan to all other Muslim countries, then again I can't blame you. Its not your fault that you only see what the media wants you to see. Go to Islamabad and Karachi and see all the progress that is being made before you comment on my country. Also I fully support President Musharraf. He rid our country of that criminal Bhutto.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
drerx7
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:34 am

do the passengers on the diverted flight have any rights? I'd be pissed if I missed a meeting--especially for some sorry Bushes
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
jjbiv
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:34 am

OPNLguy,

What's the relationship between CSC (Customer Service) and Dx when planning a flagstop or alternative flight arrangements for inconvenienced customers? Does CSC say, hey we have x number of people stuck at y airport and leave it up to you to solve or do they come up with a solution and present it to Dx for evaluation/execution?

Just curious how you guys work it. Our Dx seems to pay next to no attention to the customer service side of irregular ops and prefers to stick to what they know -- running flt ops.

joe
 
warren747sp
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:36 am

I am sure they would have done the same for Sorry Kerrys. Right Drerx7?
747SP
 
soamsky
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:44 am

"You are confusing Pakistan to all other Muslim countries, then again I can't blame you. Its not your fault that you only see what the media wants you to see. Go to Islamabad and Karachi and see all the progress that is being made before you comment on my country. Also I fully support President Musharraf. He rid our country of that criminal Bhutto"

Yeah right!
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
PIA777
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:47 am

"Yeah right!"

SoAmSky,

I don't mean to go off the subject but please explain.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
drerx7
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:50 am

Touche' Warren747sp  Big grin I'm sure they would have done the same for the Sorry Kerrys---I just don't like Bush  Big grin

Mental jousting aside--do they compensate the further inconvenienced passengers?
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
elwood64151
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:53 am

While Flagstops are a known occurence, I'm sure that the fact that the Bush twins were stranded in Albany had some effect on the decision to divert the aircraft.

I can just see it now, the Albany station manager in the back office on the phone with System Operations Control:

SM: "I have a problem. Our cancelled flight had two VIPs on it."

SOC: "We carry VIPs all the time. What makes these two so special?"

SM: "They're the President's daughters."

SOC: "You mean Bruce Lakefield's daughters? Look, our jobs may depend on the man, but we can't just divert planes willy-nilly for him!"

SM: "No, I mean President of the United States of America, George W. Bush's daughters!"

SOC: (long pause) "Let me see what I can find for you. If nothing else, we'll charter something!"


And so on...



I'm sure someone at US was thinking it would be bad to "bite the hand that feeds you," a-la the ATSB loans... So they gave some special treatment to the Bushes. I'm sure they'd do the same for the Kerry's, the Kennedy's, the Reagan's, the Clinton's, the Carter's and the Ford's. Probably the Byrd's, the Rockefeller's, the Gingrich's, and others, too...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
bjg231
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:12 am

"I can't blame you. Its not your fault that you only see what the media wants you to see."

PIA777,

Really? That's pretty hypocritical coming from a guy who just called the Bush sisters "drunks" because they were caught drinking underage. Do you think that they would have been portrayed in the same light had they been the daughters of a dentist? What American teenager (or 20 year old) has not consumed alcohol underage? That's the equivalent of saying, "the Bush sisters were caught speeding, putting everyone's lives in danger by traveling 45 mph in a 35 mph zone". Personally, I care little for domestic Pakistani politics, as I would hope you would care little for our domestic politics. I don't attempt to make opinions on subjects of which I know nothing, as I hope that you would refrain from doing the same.


As for the topic at hand, if this truly is a typical US practice, then there is nothing to discuss. The chance circumstance that the Bush sisters were passengers is just a coincidental event resulting in an increase of media attention. On the other hand, if their presence swayed the airline's decision to pick them up, who cares? The presidency gets special treatment, there is no disputing that. Is it considered a travesty if they block off streets for a presidential motorcade? Is it considered an injustice that the president's family is evacuated before the public in an emergency?

I love how no one has mentioned the fact that the Bush sisters were flying commercially. Instead of using one of the President's fleet of aircraft (as Hillary and Chelsea did when vacationing), they chose to fly like the rest of us (albeit in first class) and save me a few bucks. I guess that's a reason to vote for Kerry. His kids won't have to fly commercially or use public aircraft, they have their own.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
 
PIA777
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:18 am

Bjg231,

I don't know what you think I am but I am an American Citizen
and I live and pay taxes in America. I do have the right to comment
on Politics of both countries since I have lived in both places.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
miamiair
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:22 am

PIA777:

Are you trying to be charming or are you just constipated?


Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
alphascan
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:26 am

Elwood:

Well, maybe not the Byrds.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
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airportugal310
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:27 am

"Is it considered an injustice that the president's family is evacuated before the public in an emergency?"

Yes.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
ken4556
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:27 am

I bet Haiburton has something to do with this.
 
bjg231
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:28 am

PIA777,

Fantastic, I'm glad to call you one of my countrymen. The point I made about arguing over domestic politics is invalid in your case. However, that still doesn't negate anything else I said.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
 
warren747sp
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:30 am

Look at all the terrorist that they have netted recently in Pakistan. dictator or not they are fight the war on terrorism with the U.S.!
747SP
 
PIA777
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:31 am

Bjg231,

Proud to be an American too!!!

Miamiair ,

A little of both!!

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
COfaninBOS
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:35 am

Funny thing is, if Chelsea Clinton had been caught underage drinking or had been the one to cause the stopover, there would have been heck to pay. The right wing nutters on the airwaves would be calling for a federal investigation costing tax payers millions of dollars!

Oh, and lest we forget, Jenna Bush was caught multiple times (3 to be exact) with underage drinking. She was lucky to not receive jail time for her third offense which was actually presenting a fake i.d. to purchase alcohol at a Mexican restaurant in Austin, Texas. Presenting a fake i.d. is a more serious charge than a minor in possession type charge, especially when the perp. Already has misdemeanors under her belt.

 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:36 am

>>>What's the relationship between CSC (Customer Service) and Dx when planning a flagstop or alternative flight arrangements for inconvenienced customers? Does CSC say, hey we have x number of people stuck at y airport and leave it up to you to solve or do they come up with a solution and present it to Dx for evaluation/execution?

Dispatch and CSC work together to find some kind of resolution. CSC might suggest a certain plan or another, but upon evaluation Dispatch may find that it entails other downline problems like having aircraft out of position for MX work, potentially busting noise curfews, or running out of crew time. As I said originally, there are a slew of variables, and with CSC and Dispatch having there own sets of concerns and responsibilities, optimum solutions come from communication between the two.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
aviationwiz
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:39 am

And the opportunity to stare at those 2 girls - they're pretty fit!

No thanks, the passengers around me wouldn't feel so well after seeing my throw up from having to look at them.

It helped get the USAirways name in the press!

Not with me it sure didn't. If I had to miss a connecting flight overseas, or miss something important because we had to do an unscheduled stop to pick up some passengers, especially them, I would be pissed off beyond all belief.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:45 am

Since you have never been to Pakistan, let me tell you how it is there. When I visit, there is nothing I cannot do. I have all the freedom in the world.

Then if things are so great in Pakistan, why are you & millions of other Pakistani's flocking to the West? I don't see any Westerners flocking to live in Pakistan. There is little freedom in Pakistan but tons of poverty.

I don't know what you think I am but I am an American Citizen
and I live and pay taxes in America. I do have the right to comment
on Politics of both countries since I have lived in both places.


Similarly, we have the right to challenge you when you call 2 young women drunks for no reason and suggest that the diversion was because of them. As has been pointed out, this diversion was likely operationally advantageous.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bjg231
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:48 am

Possessing a fake id is a fine-able offense as is drinking underage. The only case where it is more than a fine-able offense (in most states) is when you have a false name listed.

You're right, if Chelsea were caught with a fake id, most right wingers would go nuts (federal investigation notwithstanding), just as the left did for the Bush sisters. I personally wouldn't as I'm still in college where fake id's are as common as textbooks. However, the fact that they've consumed alcohol under the age of 21 does not make them drunks or bad people. If you don't like Bush, fine. But don't be hypocritical and consider his children "troubled" because they happened to get caught for something that is universally accepted as inevitable (underage drinking in college).

If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
 
PIA777
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:21 am

Yyz717,

There are plenty of westerners living in both Karachi and Islamabad.
I should know since my dad worked for the American Embassy. They love it there.

"Look at all the terrorist that they have netted recently in Pakistan. dictator or not they are fight the war on terrorism with the U.S.!"

Warren747sp,

You are right. Pres. Musharraf has done alot and I think he is an honest man.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
ultrapig
Posts: 568
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:38 am

I'm a Democrat. This reminds me of the stink over the Clinton airport haircut.

Honesty is the best policy- The Bush twins have secret service protection-yes they deserve it and they do require special exceptions. The passengers should have been told this and that the reason was because they were the president's children-if it were me I would have understood-but trying to say its just normal policy for everyone is bull!
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:47 am

Honesty is the best policy- The Bush twins have secret service protection-yes they deserve it and they do require special exceptions. The passengers should have been told this

Given that they have secret service protection everywhere (including both Albany & DC), they still should have waited for the next sked US flight, at least from an optics standpoint.

You are right. Pres. Musharraf has done alot and I think he is an honest man.

Not honest enough to hold free elections.

There are plenty of westerners living in both Karachi and Islamabad.

Nonsense.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Skyway1
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:03 am

Hey Joe.....

Have you had some of the same problems up there in TOL??? I don't want to get into a bitchfest about dispatch in this thread.....but I have personally went around and around with our dispatch about their decisions.....and trust me not over one thing(because mechanicals can happen), but on at least couple of occasions. It seems they only look at flight ops.....not whether they're sticking 30 people on a bus for 6 hours.

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
PIA777
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:50 am

yyz717,

I don't think you have any proof to be calling my statement about
westerners in Pakistan, "nonsense".

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
cancidas
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:13 am

i've heard of us doing that before. good show in pax care, only made the news 'cuz the bush alkies were on the flight though....
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
ASTROJET707
Posts: 289
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RE: US Diverts Plane To Pick Up Bush Twins, 22 Others

Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:46 am

If I were either of the twins, having fuckin' HOWDY DOODY for a father would make me fall of a bar stool too...repeatedly!

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