Horus
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KLM 777s In Cairo

Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:15 am

Since Monday, KLM have been using their 777s on their daily AMS-CAI-AMS flights (KL553/KL554) instead of the usual 767. The schedule still shows them using the latter though. Does anybody know the reason for this temporary change in aircraft?


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Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Pe@rson
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:27 am

I think the 772 was just a one-off, perhaps due to increase demand or something.

I note that MS will replace the 320 currently flying CAI-AMS-CAI with the AB6 as of the winter season.
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AA B777-200
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:56 pm

Horus,

I'm pretty sure that the standard 767 had some technical problem are so, since KLM has only been downsizing its number of seats on the Cairo route. Remember KLM flying daily MD11's into Cairo?
I guess that's why one 777 was pulled out form reserve to do the flight. Occasionally I've also seen 747s doing CAI if a 767 would fail to do the task.
 
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:44 pm

When I worked for KLM, I remembered that most of the Cairo passengers were Transfering to Canada and the USA.


Regards,
AMS
 
Horus
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:19 am

since KLM has only been downsizing its number of seats on the Cairo route. Remember KLM flying daily MD11's into Cairo?

As you said before 9/11, KLM operated daily MD-11 flights to CAI (even the 743 was used on some flights). Right after 9/11 the flights were reduced to 3x weekly MD-11, then frequency steadily increased using 767. This winter they will add another 767 flight to their schedule. So besides the expected decrease straight after 9/11, KLM have been increasing capacity/frequency to Egypt NOT downsizing. I hope once the 767s are retired they use the 777s instead of the A332s.

Pe@rson, that's right MS are upgrading their CAI-AMS-CAI flights from A320 to A300-600R this winter. Also in April MS upgraded their flights to direct/dedicated. Previously flights routed CAI-AMS-BRU-CAI or CAI-BRU-AMD-CAI (BRU get their dedicated flights too).

Horus

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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:34 pm

Horus,

Ofcourse KLM intends to upgrade the service, but I was refering to the fact that we operated daily MD11 service that was "downsized" to the 767.
Eventually, the 767s and MD11 will be phased out, and the 737 is no option for Cairo, so it's probably gonna be the A330-200 or 777.

Just a simple question.... Why would you prefer a 777 over an A330-200??
 
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:38 am

AA B777-200,

KLM has only been downsizing its number of seats on the Cairo route

I was referring to the fact you said they were 'only' downsizing, when in fact there was only one reduction and that was due to 9/11 and since then it has only been increasing. But I do agree, I miss the 'good old days' when the MD-11 and B743 were common visitors.

Like you said the A332 or B777 will probably replace the 763 in the future. About the 737s, I think they would have the range considering KLM already use them to TLV, BEY and AMM, but it would be a disaster if they downgraded the service to that.

I hope in the not too distant future, KLM decide to increase their services to CAI like other European carriers. Alitalia have 21x weekly flights (A321), Lufthansa have 14x weekly flights (A330/A343), Air France have 13x weekly flights (A330/A340/B777), BA have 7x weekly flights (B744) and Swiss have 6x weekly flights (A343).

I flew KLM once many years ago (early 90s), taking the following routing LHR-AMS-CAI-AMS-LHR. I can't remember much but my family said it was pretty decent.


Just a simple question.... Why would you prefer a 777 over an A330-200??

Haha...a good question. First of all the 777 has a larger capacity than the A332, so using the 777 over the A330 would indicate a stonger market/demand. Secondly the 777 (in my view) is the best aircraft around, followed straight by the A332, hence I would prefer to see the Boeing rather than the Airbus in this case.



Anyway for the last 5 days the 777s were still on use on their CAI flights. The Saturday flight is due in a few hours, so I guess we'll have to see if it'll still be the 777 or back to the 767.



Deviating from the topic, do you know which Dutch charter carriers operate to Egypt (e.g. Sharm El Sheik, Hurghada, Marsa Alam, Luxor, Aswan, Taba, Assuit) besides Transavia and Martinair? Also do you know where I can find their timetables/schedules to Egypt?



A picture of a KLM 743 in CAI replacing the 767 flight


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tripple7
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:43 am

For Dutchbird it would be:

Di. 6/4 - 26/10 Schiphol Airport - Hurghada DBR 263
11:35 18:55
Di. 6/4 - 26/10 Hurghada - Schiphol Airport DBR 264
19:55 00:20
Vr. 2/4 - 29/10 Schiphol Airport - Hurghada DBR 563
12:40 20:45
Vr. 2/4 - 29/10 Hurghada - Schiphol Airport DBR 564
21:45 02:10

Vr. 2/4 - 29/10 Schiphol Airport - Marsa Alam Int. DBR 563
12:40 19:05
Vr. 2/4 - 29/10 Marsa Alam Int. - Schiphol Airport DBR 564
19:55 02:10

Di. 6/4 - 26/10 Schiphol Airport - Sharm el Sheik DBR 263
11:35 17:30
Di. 6/4 - 26/10 Sharm el Sheik - Schiphol Airport DBR 264
18:20 00:20

Vr. 9/7 - 29/10 Schiphol Airport - Taba DBR 569
14:45 20:40
Vr. 9/7 - 29/10 Taba - Schiphol Airport DBR 570
21:30 01:55


Info is from the Website of Dutchbird. Equipment could be a 757 or 320.
 
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:04 am

Well Horus,

I'm optimistic on the KLM route into CAI. For some reason there seems to be a large Egyptian society in Holland. We'll see what the future brings.

Dutch charters..... Well, except for Martinair Holland (KLM has 50% stake) and Transavia (full KLM subsidary), there's Dutchbird and Holland Excel, but I have no idea if they have any services into Egypt.

BTW, a couple of years ago, KLM's flights 553/554 were actually operated by Martinair's 767-300ER!
 
Horus
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:10 am

Thanks for the info Tripple7. What about Transavia and Martinair?

AA B777-200, why did KLM use Martinair's 763?


Horus

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sleak76
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:38 pm

Horus,

You doing ok?

Just to update ya on something:

BA have 7x weekly flights (B744)

This changed to a daily 777, effective summer 2004 schedule (ie. back in late March).

This 777 stays effective til Oct 30th. October 31st and onwards, the BA 744 will make its come-back once again.

Cheers.
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:58 am

Sleak67, I know, I was referring to the winter schedules (sorry, if I did not make that clear)

So how are the CAI-KWI flights doing?


Horus

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sleak76
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:48 pm

Horus

Still pretty much booked up. Actually, was checking loads for Nov, and already nov 12-21 are booking up pretty quick (with Nov 20 fully booked flights) coming back. That would coincide with the Eid holidays then.
So guess the demand is still there.

Actually, a colleague of mine came back from CAI just last Sunday. She was on waiting list for Sunday (CAI-KWI) and confirmed the day after. Now that's news to me. Didnt think that CAI-KWI in early august would be full (flights) with waiting lists intact! This was never the case before. So the route is definately a busy one!

Cheers to more of that!  Big thumbs up
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:09 pm

Horus,

KLM is flying a B737 on the route AMS-BEY...
A daily flight during the summer season, 6xWeekly during the winter...
 
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:18 am

KLM subs in the 767 sometimes on AMS-BEY when loads are high.

It's actually daily in the summer, and 5x weekly the rest of the year.

Regards
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:59 pm

I hope KLM would keep a daily frequency to BEY this winter... and the same schedule in the evening from AMS.
It's a good alternative for us in Paris, as there is no flight (for the moment) leaving CDG to BEY after 1:35PM
 
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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:16 pm

Flyssc, I know KLM use 737s to BEY, as I said in reply 6:D:

Like you said the A332 or B777 will probably replace the 763 in the future. About the 737s, I think they would have the range considering KLM already use them to TLV, BEY and AMM, but it would be a disaster if they downgraded the service to that.

Horus

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RE: KLM 777s In Cairo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:46 am

Actually, a colleague of mine came back from CAI just last Sunday.

Did s/he use KU or MS?


Also do you know the market share KU and MS have on traffic on the CAI-KWI route?


Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation