burnsie28
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If AA Gets To Asia

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:32 pm

I did a search and nothing came up, so the question that i have is how successful do you think AA will be in Asia. They want a major expansion, but how would they do this, only NW and UA have the all important 5th freedom rights and there is no way that the japanese government would give these to AA. Also AA wants to go to China, well the thing is, IF they get rights, which may not happen, then how successful do you think they would be. I know that in Asia it seems as if people are very loyal to certain companies and UA and NW are those, NW being the bigger of the two. AA has no brand recognition in Asia, so how successful do you think they will be with this Asian expansion that they think they can do.

I personally think they will fail for the reasons that they have none of the above mentioned items needed. What do you guys think?
 
n949wp
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:00 am

AA has several daily flights into Tokyo, Japan. The last time I checked, Japan is definitely in Asia.  Insane
 
NYCAAer
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:01 am

The word we get from management is that the Asian market will splinter with more point-to-point flying, due to smaller, longer range aircraft such as the new A340s and 777s, as opposed to the 747-400s, in much the same way the transatlantic market changed with the advent of the 767 and A330.

However, it seems like the routes AA wants to serve will be to major hubs such as ORD and DFW. The routes AA is looking to fly are ORD-PVG and possibly DFW-Hong Kong. Despite the fact AA has little or no brand recognition in Asia, it will be more reliant upon U.S. business travelers for traffic. I would expect AA's overall growth in Asia to be very gradual.
 
burnsie28
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:44 am

AA has several daily flights into Tokyo, Japan. The last time I checked, Japan is definitely in Asia.

No kidding, that is why if you read the message it says EXPANSION. Also, you obviously dont know that by saying GETS to ASIA doesnt necessarily mean that they just begin to Asia.
 
asianguy767
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:42 am

perhaps AA should consider ORD/JFK-DEL/BOM? I do know that AA has considerable codeshare agreements with CX n BR so I guess for now this works best for them till the time comes when they believe they are ready to operate on thier own to say HKG and TPE.
 
nwa man
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:32 am

Building off of what NYCAAer stated above, the lack of fifth freedom rights really wouldn't matter for AA, because they would like to fly to Chinese cities from established U.S. hubs. Point-to-point flying from Narita for AA would be a little ridiculous... I don't think AA would want to become the seventh carrier in a market like NRT-Seoul (NW, UA, NH, JL, KE, and Asiana beat them to it).

Additionally, AA codeshares with JL and CX, so there would be no need to start their own flights from Tokyo onward to China when these routes are already covered by alliance partners.

As far as being successful in China... well, AA might not have the brand recognition there, but they definitely have it in the USA. Combine this with the growing factor of globalization, increasing Western business influence in China, and the advantage of being one of the few airlines to operate from the US to China nonstop, and I think American will perform quite well in China, if both governments give them that opportunity.


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
jasepl
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:38 am

They want a major expansion, but how would they do this, only NW and UA have the all important 5th freedom rights and there is no way that the japanese government would give these to AA

There's much more to Asia than China and Japan. If AA got that into their heads and managed to get some sort of arrangement to fly 5th freedom via Europe - as DL and NW have done - they could get started towards building up a decent Asian presence. It is bizarre though. The world's largest carrier is virtually non-existent in the world's largest continent.
 
AA B777-200
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:41 am

I did hear that AA plans to inaugurate a Mumbai flight out of JFK or ORD!
 
Carpethead
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:01 am

In today's world, 5th freedom routes will be very seldomly awarded. UA and NW are reaping benefits of 5th Freedom after WWII plus with aircraft that can now overfly Japan, why bother?
AA is slowly building Asia, but currently it serves only Tokyo but I hope it will consider re-starting services to Osaka and start new services to China, Nagoya or others.
 
N754PR
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:03 am

I heard Chicago - Hong Kong in 2005
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
B2443
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:15 am

Somewhere I heard PVG was going to be granted with the 5th. If that's true, AA could fly to PVG like crazy and build a hub there instead of in Japan. Then AA could go to BKK, HKG, and even to India. I'd have no doubt AA would be successful at PVG, given the local crowd has an "any(****) foreign is better than Chinese" attitude. Oh no, don't even think about PEK.
 
Leneld
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:21 am

What about AA expansion to Asia from SJC?
 
chgoflyer
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:33 am

They need ORD HKG to tie into CX and fix one of the biggest flaws of Oneworld!
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am

I really doubt AA sets up a hub anywhere in asia but operates the Pacific sector like the Atlantic. They will do routes that they can w/ the 777s and then expand when one day they can afford 7e7s.
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
ua777222
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:12 pm

IF AA got to Asia.... Then all the other major's would be SOL.

AA is only as big as it is b/c they are America's largest carrier. Literally. They basically own America towards the most hubs and the most departures in and out of certain airports.

If/when they get the rights which they might already have (Tokyo) then they could easily expand like none other. This would be either great or bad. But if AA plays their cards right they should have no issues. And with a few 767 in storage they can swap those on a few shorter 777 routes and then take the 777's that they have put on hold up in Seattle...

Thanks again!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
jasepl
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:31 pm

Exactly! They might be the biggest in the world, but that world seems to end with the Americas. Compared to other carriers, they're almost non-existent in the rest of the world. It is bizarre indeed that the world's largest carrier is virtually non-existent in the world's largest continent.

Kind of like the winning baseball team being crowned "World Champions"!
 
CRFLY
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:25 pm

Well I disagree with the two last replies... AA is the most important carrier all over Latinamerica, so if they built a loyal clientele and an extensive route network through the continent, why can't they do it between the US and Asia? They were nothing when they came to Latinamerica, just the replacement of Eastern Airlines...
With Age comes Wisdom...
 
jasepl
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:37 pm

CRFLY: Don't think anyone's saying they can't do it. It's just being pointed out that they're nowhere in Asia and not very big in Europe either.
 
trickijedi
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:57 pm

Part of the problem has to do with AA's ties with CX and One World. Yes, AA should definitely expand their route to cover the major cities in Asia! A lucrative market would be to Hong Kong. DFW-HKG or ORD-HKG would be ideal. Especially considering that the only airline that has cornered that market has been UA with direct ORD-HKG. But once again, CX would probably object to that without getting a piece of the pie. And since CX has an excellent grasp of the premiere Asian routes, there is no way CX would let AA start competing with them.

Now the question then becomes, how willing is AA to closely work with CX to form a true partnership, maybe similar to NW and KLM? For instance, will AA let CX into Dallas? Will AA let CX fly the ORD-HKG route?
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
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yyz717
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:26 pm

I never understood why AA dropped daily SEA-NRT 772 service instead of just downgrading to 763. Now AA is dropping SJC-NRT 772 service. Why not try 763 on the route?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
nwa man
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:29 pm

Now AA is dropping SJC-NRT 772 service. Why not try 763 on the route?


Because they need the slot at Narita to operate a second daily ORD-NRT flight.


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
cx346
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:32 pm

And why would anyone fly AA if they can fly CX?  Smile
during the Internet boom, AA had a flight SJC-TPE but failed to attract enough business. I don't expect them to increase their destinations in Asia, but rather increase their codeshares and cooperation with CX. DFW and ORD will be linked to HKG sooner or later, but most likely on CX metal.
 
lumumba
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:41 pm

Hi everybody.
And why not jfk/ord-bru-delhi or Bombay after SABENA we don't have any asian conection anymore.And SNBA is code sharing with AA so this can be a good option.We also have a big Indain comunity in Antwerp.
Regards
Patrice
 
Sydscott
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:05 pm


"Now the question then becomes, how willing is AA to closely work with CX to form a true partnership, maybe similar to NW and KLM? For instance, will AA let CX into Dallas? Will AA let CX fly the ORD-HKG route?"

The answer to this comes down to Oneworld internal politics. Considering CX's main attraction to Oneworld was the tremendous passenger feed potential from North America that AA has, I would think they'd work as well as QF/BA work on their joint routes. An ORD-HKG flown by a CX A346 and fed by AA traffic would easily out compete any offering that Star could put together.

Would CX serve DFW direct from Hong Kong?? Probably not yet. It would be interesting to see both CX and QF start HKG-DFW & SYD-DFW at the same time. Overnight DFW becomes an ultra long haul hub for Oneworld!!
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:15 pm


AA will not create an overseas hub in Asia. Too much expense and effort involved. U.S. airlines prefer to code share than build up liabilities such as airplanes and working capital. With Japan as something like 1/2 of total Asian GNP, then a hub in Tokyo plus the history made sense. But, those days are over. No new overseas hubs for U.S. carriers.
 
pilatusguy
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:01 pm

Why would AA want to compete with it's alliance partners on the pacific route? I assume they'll make more money out of a code-share operation (with non-AA A/C) than flying their own A/C to Asia/Pacific.
On top of that I assume that many high yield pax prefer flying asian carriers, just because their service is better than AA's.....

My two cents ==> start beating me up, all AA fans  Smile
 
aa777jr
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:23 pm

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1689666/

I found out service to HKG starts in 2005 and they would be flying ORD to PKE when they get permission to fly to China. AA did fly more routes to the Orient when the "tech-boom" was going on. There was a greater demand to travel to companies in Japan and surrounding pre-9/11. I talked with my flight instructor late last night and he told me currently AA is looking for expansion in the Pacific with 3 cities. He is a Captain with AA and he is senior Air Crew Checkman for all their 763s.

Also in regards to AA not having the money to buy 7E7, again, according to my instructor, AA isn't in any financial dires. They currently have over $4 billion in the bank, that is more than twice the amount of their second place domestic competitor.

AA777jr
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
COAB767
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:27 pm

I heard from a friend of mine who works at CO mainline, that CO is supposedly gonna drop the EWR-HKG run, and do a EWR-SIN run. So I wonder if that's gonna happen
Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
 
NYCAAer
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:10 pm

Also, one thing to note: AA may not be big in Europe, but they are the largest U.S. carrier out of LHR, far and away the most heavily traveled and most profitable transatlantic destination from the U.S. Up to 20 flights daily are operated from LHR. DL, NW, CO and US would kill for LHR authority.
 
mrniji
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:29 pm

In today's world, 5th freedom routes will be very seldomly awarded

I just see it the other way. Liberalization of civil aviation and alliances increase 5th freedom routes. Hence, it won't be a surprise to see AA flights to points in Asia with stops in Europe or Japan, Korea, Singapore..
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:50 pm

Quote- Also in regards to AA not having the monet to buy 7E7, again, AA isn't in any fianancial dires. They currently have over $4 billion in the bank.

However, AA has over $23 billion in debt, and once profitable markets are experiencing dropping yields. AA also has to face a leaner, tougher UA and possibly DL if it goes into bankruptcy. AA is still in trouble. The business market has dried up. Fares are still ridiculously low- load factors are sky-high but with cheap fares. AA may still file for Chapter 11.

And don't forget outrageous fuel prices, further affecting the bottom line!

[Edited 2004-08-09 15:55:34]

[Edited 2004-08-09 15:56:35]
 
ishky15
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:13 pm

I heard from a friend of mine who works at CO mainline, that CO is supposedly gonna drop the EWR-HKG run, and do a EWR-SIN run. So I wonder if that's gonna happen

Somehow I highly doubt that.
 
FLIBOYZ
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:25 pm

YYZ717- Where did you hear or read that AA will be dropping SJC-NRT service? As far as I know, nothing or noone has said anything about discontiuing that service. Possible to provide facts about your comment? Just wondering. Thanks  Wink/being sarcastic


And as far as ASIA expansion goes, AA has gotten approval for HNL-NRT service. Which is supposed to start by the ending of 2004. They are waiting for some good time slots into and out of NRT.

International is the way that AA is looking towards too I think for the future. More expansion here than domestically. IMO domestic is a lost cause for making profits and any expansion.

Just my .02

 
AA7573E
Posts: 468
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RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:31 pm

The title of this thread is a bit off. It's not a question of 'IF' AA gets to Asia, but more appropriately, 'When AA expands further into Asia'. As mentioned already, AA has very lucrative routes into NRT, and is supplementing the service from the lower 48 with new routes from HNL on 763s.

AA will, sooner rather than later, gain access to China and Hong Kong - but it's important to keep in mind that AA is not going after a turn key solution that would get them an owned network on par with NWA or UAL in Asia. It's simply not feasible. However, it is very feasible to find select routes in Asia - high yielding routes - and time them well to meet up with your network of Asian partners - to offer connections beyond.

See you up front!
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

RE: If AA Gets To Asia

Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:17 am

Very well said, AA7573E! That should be the final word for this thread- it sums it up in just one paragraph!