kim777fan
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:14 am

A few months back, Aloha announced that they were applying to the FAA for authority to extend one HNL- SNA flight to DCA with a 737NG. This would take two of DCA's coveted "out-of-perimeter" (over 1250 miles) landing/takeoff slots and would have provided the only non-stop to the East Coast from SNA while also providing the only same-plane service between DCA and HNL.

After a while, this press release was pulled from Aloha's website and AS shortly thereafter announced the startup of LAX - DCA service. HP later announced the startup of PHX - DCA service.

Clearly, Aloha's bid was declined as the FAA must have felt that HP and AS had superior bids. I'm going to guess the reason was because AS and HP passengers could connect to other flights out of LAX and PHX respectively, while Aloha passengers would have had considerably more restricted options.

Does anybody else have some more insight into the decision process for granting the takeoff and landing slots at DCA??
 
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mariner
Posts: 18113
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:27 am

It's all a balance. The DOT had more applications for service then there were slots available.

There were a couple of surprises. UAL had applied for SFO/DCA as well as DEN/DCA. They were granted DEN/DCA, but not SFO/DCA.

Since DCA pax can already get to Hawaii with a one stop (LAX, or from PHX with the HP code share) I guess the DOT felt that Aloha's application didn't really bring anything new to the table.

DCA/SNA seemed like a fairly good idea to me, but the attitude of the DOT is improve the number of connections available to DCA pax.

So you are right in your assessment.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
lat41
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:57 am

Nonstop to the West Coast from DCA would be tight in certain weather conditions, even for a 73G with blended winglets, which I do not beleive Aloha has. Would there have to be weight restrictions?
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:02 am

Aloha's 73G's with or without blended winglets could easily make the trip between SNA-DCA.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
lat41
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:11 am

It's the DCA-SAN leg I'm concerned about. The runways at Regan National are very short and do not leave room for too much contingency!
http://www.naco.faa.gov/content/naco/online/airportdiagrams/00443AD.pdf
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:22 am

HP later announced the startup of PHX - DCA service.


This actually happened years ago. HP has been serving PHX-DCA since a long time now.

I too was surprised UA got DEN instead of SFO, but DEN does open up huge new connecting opportunities that F9 doesn't provide there, and SFO wouldn't have.

N
 
zrb2
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:36 am

It's the DCA-SNA leg I'm concerned about. The runways at Regan National are very short and do not leave room for too much contingency for any aircraft trying to reach the West Coast nonstop.

Ok....but the main runway at DCA is 6,869' while the runway at SNA is only 5,701'. Also, the distance between DCA-SNA is 1,982nm while SNA-HNL is listed at 2,240nm

I guess my point is SNA-HNL uses a shorter runway for a longer distance. DCA-SNA should not be a problem with that aircraft.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:52 am

Aloha and the state of Hawaii whined a bit after they weren't granted a DCA slot, saying it was an offense to the airline and the people of Hawaii who don't have same plane service to their nation's capital.

Yet since then, Aloha has made no effort to introduce service to IAD or BWI, two other airports serving the Washington area that are not slot restricted.

There were threads on a.net speculating that what Aloha really wanted was the high-yield SNA-DCA market and same-plane service to HNL was kind of an afterthought.

It was also Aloha's first time to apply for DCA slots so I'm sure that lowered their position a little bit, although I think the main factor in their rejection was lack of connection opportunities as previously mentioned.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
lat41
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:13 am

Zrb2, I think. your distance calculation from DCA is 300-400 miles short. I did think however that SNA had gotten approval for and already built, their one commercial runway to 7000'. My Mistake. They do however, have over runs on each end where DCA cannot. Also the weather at SNA is a lot more constant as they do not have to contend with snow slush and sand on the runways and and quite as many restrictions and procedures to get in and out as Reagan National does. No way around it, a blown tire, compromised traction or a hiccup in one of the engines just before liftoff can present a real problem for an aircraft fueled and loaded for a coast to coast run at either of those fields.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:15 am

Zrb2, I think. your distance calculation from DCA is 300-400 miles short.

It isn't.

N
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:24 am

lat41 - aloha, or any airline for that matter, would not have applied for the route unless it was operationally feasible - not to mention the economics of it. yes, DCA rwy1-19 is shorter than a lot of others, but it is capable of most operations. airbus, 757, and next gen 737s, for example, are used at DCA bcs they can operate there under most performance conditions with very few restrictions. there may be some weight restrictions in hot weather for long haul flights - i dont know for sure. and i do know that some aircraft must depart to the south when north operations are in use due to weight, but that has more to do with obstructions along the departure path than it does runway length.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:41 am

Lat41 wrote:
a 73G with blended winglets, which I do not beleive Aloha has.


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MoneyShot
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:16 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:58 am

BWI is a great idea for Aloha. I think that a lot of people from the DC area would use that flight. Same point from the SNA side of it. With just one 737 to fill per day, its pretty much an LA to DC flight. I bet it would work, but then what do I know.
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:33 pm

"Yet since then, Aloha has made no effort to introduce service to IAD or BWI, two other airports serving the Washington area that are not slot restricted."

IAD or BWI? That goes against AQ's idea of flying to "small airports."
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
7673mech
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:10 am

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:09 pm

Lets put one issue to rest ... it was their choice of aircraft. Alohoa would have had no problems with or without the winglets. (They use winglets on their transpac service). Hot or cold, SNA or LAX a 737NG can make the flight easily.
The decision was made on what was best for the flying public ... ie - connections and such.
 
kim777fan
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

RE: Aloha's SNA - DCA Application

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:08 am

IAD and BWI are "small" airports????

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