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N328KF
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7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:06 pm

From the August, 2nd edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology:

"One travesty," [Aerospace Industries Assoc. President/CEO John W.] Douglass says, is that Boeing is going to have to conduct 7E7 wind tunnel tests in Toulouse. "We don't have a wind tunnel in the U.S. that can support a modern commercial airplane like that. [It's a] real shame and a national embarassment."

Is this a result of the closure of the NASA wind tunnel that was in Virginia?

The article also says that the 200 additional 7E7 orders will be final by the end of September.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
knoxibus
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:11 pm

Erhhh I doubt Airbus has Wind tunnel tests facilities in its HQ (I would know since I am here), but maybe in your title you meant Airbus HQ town, i.e. Toulouse, which has part of the ONERA facilities here in France.
(Office National d'Etudes et de Recherches Aerospatiales, or national office for aerospace research and studies)

Anyway, I thought that wind tunnel facilities at Qinetiq in the UK could handle this?
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
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solnabo
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:16 pm

How ironic!!! *lol*

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NYC777
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:31 pm

Not so ironic. I believe Airbus did some wind tunnel testing at the Air Force Labs in Dayton, OH. where Boeing also does some testing for the BCA business. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ltbewr
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:33 pm

What, doesn't any other US military aircraft maker have such a wind tunnel? I would be very concerned of spying by Airbus. Using a facility Airbus people could have access to, especially with 'friends' in the French government, using what is in part a French government facility. Also, isn't a government wind tunnel facility another form of subsidy to Airbus?
 
gkirk
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:34 pm

"Also, isn't a government wind tunnel facility another form of subsidy to Airbus?"
 Insane  Insane
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knoxibus
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:49 pm

Ok LTBEWR, this is starting to look ridiculous.......

I am pretty sure that there must be some kind of non-dislosure agreement between the facility owner and the user.

And indeed, Airbus has been using facilities in the US also. I remember also ATR using a KC-135 from whichever AFB in the States to spray ice through the boom in order to check anti-icing system during flights.

These kind of facilities nowadays are also looking at making money and profits, I do believe they do noit really care about the guy coming in to perform some tests, apart from providing them with all their expertise and help, since they are paid for that.

And didn't you raise an eyebrow every time Boeing came to DARA/Qinetiq in the UK? They went over there a lot of time to do some wind tunnel tests (most of the pics of the 7E7 in a tunnel were taken there).

So yes, they must be really saving a lot of money cheating with those subsidies!!!

Just to make my point and not wanting to start anything, but maybe Boeing has some slots reserved with Nasa or US Air Force facilities for some military programs, and might be using them for BCA!!!
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
JOSEMEX
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:49 pm


>Also, isn't a government wind tunnel facility another form of subsidy to Airbus?<

Damn Boeing! So now they also want to take advantage of those subsidies! Big grin
 
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keesje
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:14 am

Also, isn't a government wind tunnel facility another form of subsidy to Airbus?
Damn Boeing! So now they also want to take advantage of those subsidies!


Nah, they have NASA & the Pentagon.

On the cooperation on 7E7, the hefty Euro/Airbus - USBoeing clashes are more for a.net strategists & politicians and patriots.

A plane basicly is a bunch of components and different technologies, working together here is often beneficial. EU & US are both free & pragmatic market environments.

Other recent news :

Jeppesen (part of Boeing) makes a good deal with Airbus:
http://www.iata.org/pp/pr/2004/2004-07-19-06.htm

Boeing is best friends for decades with french Thales (Airbus key avionics provider)
http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/feeds/prnewswire/2004/07/13/prnewswire200407131325PR_NEWS_B_NWT_SF_SFTU099.html

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
planekrazy777
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:18 am

watch out boeing, airbus probaly has camera's in the wind tunnel, just to see what new technlogy,or aircraft design they will put into there next bird. maybe 310 replacement. just my thought
 
ulfinator
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:32 am

Boeing has done testing in other locations other than Seattle for some time. Seattle has a transonic wind tunnel that you can test some smaller models in:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q2/pr_040526g.html

For testing of other models such as Flutter models and low-speed models (these have flaps and such on them) which are much bigger scale Boeing needs a bigger wind tunnel. Hence the use of the one in Toulouse as well as another one used frequently by Airbus in Farnsbourough (sp?).

I learned all this when I visited the Transonic wind tunnel in Seattle as well as the accompanying model shop where all of our wind tunnel models are built. Really neat stuff.
 
jmets18
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:41 am

Lockheed has a wind tunnel at it's Marietta facitlity where they assemble the F/A-22. Nascar uses it all of the time.
 
BIGBlack
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:49 am

Well, I can tell you for sure, that the USAF is damn stingy with their higher tech facilities.
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mt99
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:58 am

How about charging Boeing $10,000,000/hr for wind tunnel use and blow the economics of the 7E7 development out of the water?

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luisca
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:22 am

More embarasing was having 10 A340's with a "for sale by owner" sign on Boeing Field.

Did they get rid of these aircraft already?
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbu

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:37 am

Wait it only says that windtunnel test will be conducted in Toulouse, not that it will be held at an Airbus or EADS facailty. And Touluse isn't the HQ for Airbus! Even excluding Airbus there is a huge aerospace presence in Toulouse, Boeing is consulting with Dassault in Tolouse for CATA software and I would find it no suprise if there is an independent windtunnel facality located there as well.
 
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N328KF
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbu

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:19 am

Luisca:

More embarassing for whom? Not Boeing or SQ, that's for certain. And yes, they were sold. Some wound up at CX.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
VSXA380X800
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:41 am

I'm going with what Knoxibus said, I doubt that they will have a will tunnel testing area at the HQ.
N328KF, if you mean at Airbus(France), there's probably one close by the HQ.


P.S
Mt99, I would charge double that  Wink/being sarcastic!
4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
 
gearup
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:05 am

Lads,

You might find that when you strip away all the marketing tripe, 'my plane has 4 engines, your has only 2' and so on, you might find that callaboration in area like safety, engineering and maintenance between EADS, Boeing and others runs a lot deeper than you think. It is a good thing.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
VSXA380X800
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:42 am

Gearup

HHHHHHUUUUUUUUUHHHHH???????????????????????????????????????????????????
4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
 
syncmaster
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:24 am

VSXA380X800,

I think what he means is that if Boeing, Airbus, EADS (?), etc didn't have marketing departments we'd all see that they actually get along with each other. Especially in areas such as safety, mx, etc.  Big thumbs up

Back on topic...

So what if Boeing uses a wind tunnel outside the U.S., they are a Worldwide company simply based in the U.S., just as Airbus is, only not based in the States. Just like Microsoft is, just like Dell is, just like Ford is, just like Unilever is, getting my drift?
 
aerobalance
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:41 am

Having worked with ONERA, I'd put money that Boeing is using their facility in Toulouse. Check http://www.onera.fr/dmae-en/index.html for details on their sites.

7E7 testing has also been done at NASA-Ames Research Center.

Cheers
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:40 am

Oh my lord, look at all the "spying" comments flying from the North Americans HAHA

C'mon people. THis is COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE. Competitors ROUTINELY use each other for such things as research and development, etc.

I work for a large courier company here, and the general public has *NO* idea that on our aircraft, during the day, when our planes are idle, we routinely fly *TONS* of freight on OUR planes for ALL of our competitors.

Business is business. If it'll cost Boeing less to do wind tunnel tests in Europe, they'll do it there. (Hence Boeing sub-contracting parts of the 7E7 to Asian countries).

Forget the spying crap. Gosh, thats right up there with the whole subsidy conversation on here the other day. ALL major manufacturers are subisidized by their respective governments, BOEING included. IF you honestly think they aren't, you have no idea how the world really works.

The paranoid nature of a LOT of users on this site is just almost laughable!

1011yyz.
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
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N328KF
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbu

Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:37 am

Crap, don't lop me in with the paranoids. All I did was paste the article snippet.  Big grin With an incorrect headline, though.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: 7E7 Wind Tunnel Testing To Take Place At Airbus HQ

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:50 pm

N328KF -- Dont' worry, I should have excluded you  Big grin

Its funny.. I mean, we have the A vs B. Europe vs "the americas", 4 engines versus 2 engines and now the whole "watch out airbus, boeing might be spying" thing hahaah. I'm surprised no one accused Airbus of stowing someone in the Airbus planes Boeing purchased a few years back from customers of theirs buying new Boeing planes.

I agree with Gearup. There is more collaboration behind the scenes between these two companies than any of us would imagine. It's typical business practices.

Ooh boy, my blood boils sometimes coming here, but all - in - all, it's humorous more than anything HAHA

1011yyz.

Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!

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