MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15456
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:34 am

How is this possible? What is the minimum separation? Is this real?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/637285/L/

[Edited 2004-08-11 17:35:30]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
planemannyc
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:38 am

And what aircraft is he shooting this photo from? If it is real, it truly is an amazing shot. The opportunity to shoot a photo like this must be one in a million.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc
 
aeroyu
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 3:25 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:38 am

It looks like very close, but it actually has 1,000 feet seperation, the RVSM rule applies.
Kai Tai - I missed you so much
 
Invictus
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:03 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:38 am

It appears to be like the bloke said: RVSM  Smokin cool
The captain of my soul.
 
JeffDCA
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:12 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:40 am

Simply the effect of using a telephoto zoom lens. It makes the object in the far distance (the 747 in this case) appear much closer than it actually is.

No regulations broken at all as it's in RVSM airspace, and the photo is perfectly real.  Smile

Cheers,

Jeff
If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to.
 
BIGBlack
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:16 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:44 am

Photoshop is quite the application. That looks real and quite scary.
Someone special in the air
 
LHSebi
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:45 am


View Large View Medium

Photo © Bailey - AirTeamImages



Once again, Bailey strikes back with another of his incredible photos! Nice one!

How is this possible? What is the minimum separation?

Which separation are you talking about now? Between the two planes visible, or between the 340 and the plane from which the photo was taken. As far as I know, 1000 feet, as described in the remark, is the amount of separation that is usually used, and I suppose that is more than enough. I am assuming this shot was taken with a long tele lens, and its flying above the 340. These are all just (probably dumb) conjectures, so we should get Bailey himself here to answer this!

Is this real?

If I were you, I would take a look through the rest of Bailey's images, before accusing him of forgery. The nature of his job (777 pilot) allows him to take pictures such as these. Always expect the unexpected from him!

Sebastian  Big thumbs up

Edit: KI911: He is a pilot, and pilots have a view out the front! Careful what you say!

[Edited 2004-08-11 17:46:54]
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
Invictus
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:03 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:47 am

Kl911

Been flying for 20 years now and never had a problem looking forward. What are you talking about?  Confused
The captain of my soul.
 
JeffDCA
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:12 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:49 am

Impossible, the photographer would have been about 200 yards behind the plane to shoot this, plus , if you're on a plane you cannot look forward, only left and right. It's a fake!

As LHSebi quite rightly said, take a look at some of Bailey's other shots before accusing him of taking fake pictures. It doesn't take a genius to figure out he's an SQ 777 pilot.

Cheers,

Jeff
If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to.
 
BIGBlack
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:16 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:52 am

I would be a pilot. Awesome stuff. Is there a link to view his other photos? Looks like amazing stuff. To the untrained eye it looks scary but it still looks phenomenal especially knowing it's authentic.
Someone special in the air
 
knoxibus
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:59 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:56 am

I found myself looking at it for at least 4 minutes non-stop (well I did blink Big grin)

This is an amazing photo i have to admit. Thanks Bailey for providing us with such scenery!
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
LHSebi
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:57 am

Is there a link to view his other photos?

Yes. Open the photo above, then click on "More" next to his name, and boom! Big grin

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15456
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:58 am

"before accusing him of forgery"

No one's accusing him of forgery. I wanted to know how this is possible primarily. I knew there was a reduced vertical minimum separation but I thought there was still a horizontal separation requirement...

E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BIGBlack
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:16 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:59 am

Awesome! Thank you Sebastian
Someone special in the air
 
LHSebi
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:02 am

Ok, maybe I understood you wrong, but it applies to the others that replied too  Smile. When you said "Is it real?", the only thing I could tell from that is that you were questioning its authenticity...

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:04 am

Some of you people just have NO idea about photography.

Baily gets amazing shots like this time adn time again. As amazing as this is, I'm not surprised, as he does great things like this all the time.

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:04 am

I knew there was a reduced vertical minimum separation but I thought there was still a horizontal separation requirement...

But if he's 1000' above the A340, there isn't a problem. Because he is maintaining the 1000' vert seperation between him and the 340, and the 340 is 1000' above the 747, there is no problem.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
fraT
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:10 am

Just a technical question:
As the photographer's A/C is flying in the same direction as the A340, shouldn't there be a 2000 feet separation?
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:22 am

As the photographer's A/C is flying in the same direction as the A340, shouldn't there be a 2000 feet separation?

You almost stumped me  Smile. I had to think about that one for a minute, but yes there should be 2000' of vert seperation. But as people have said before, I think he has a long tele lens on his camera. I hope we can get a comment on here from the photographer, but being a 777 pilot, I'm sure he's quite busy.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6460
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:26 am

He never said how high above the A340 he was...

Distance between him and the A340 > Distance between A343 and 747

So, yes, he can be 2000ft above the A343 (3000ft above the 747)

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:27 am

Impossible, the photographer would have been about 200 yards behind the plane to shoot this,
Zoom lenses my friend.

plus , if you're on a plane you cannot look forward, only left and right.
As mentioned, there are cockpit windows. Also, there could have a been a situation where the plane that the person was taking the picture was perpendicular to the two other planes.

"before accusing him of forgery"

No one's accusing him of forgery.

You might no be, but this person is: "It's a fake!"

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Espion007
Posts: 1653
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:29 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:06 am

yea,bailey takes some shockingly amazing shots


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bailey - AirTeamImages

Snakes on a Plane!
 
richierich
Posts: 3307
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:19 am

Wow - this guy is pretty good with a camera.

My only concern is that I hope he is not forgetting to fly his own plane while taking these shots! I'd hate to think how close he must have been to that China Air A340 (although I have heard of 'zoom'!).
None shall pass!!!!
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:49 am

Just one thing:

 Laugh out loud to all of you who say its fake..
Wietse de Graaf
 
waketurbulence
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:33 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:55 am

Awww SafetyDude, do you really think it is a fake? I hope no one would be that low as posting fake images on this great site. Do you not think the screeners thoroughly reviewed this? Is it because you can't get shots like it? Can you explain a little more? I hope you are joking.
-Matt

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bailey - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bailey - AirTeamImages


FAKE???
P.S. I remember a discussion about the second shot being fake as well, and everyone said it was real.
 
fraT
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:57 am

WakeTurbulence,

SafetyDude was just quoting another poster who cried out FAKE before thinking.
 
waketurbulence
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:33 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:01 am

Got it, so he was joking. I just wasn't completely sure, thanks for clearing that up. Sorry SafetyDude.
-Matt
 
sfilipowicz
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:59 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:15 am

Great photo!

What is the RVSM rule?
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:15 am

Got it, so he was joking. I just wasn't completely sure, thanks for clearing that up.
WakeTurbulence, see reply #27 by FraT: "WakeTurbulence,

SafetyDude was just quoting another poster who cried out FAKE before thinking."

You can find the quote "It is a fake!" in reply #5.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:21 am

Well I am no photographer.I cant say if this is fake or true.But I can say welcome to RVSM airspace.  Smile

Since the introduction of RVSM airspace views like this is everyday occurences in European airspace.TCAS proximete traffic alerts did become very frequent.But flying next to a lot of traffic puts some very nice views adding some spice to long hours of sitting in the cockpit.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
LY4XELD
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:41 am

Sfilipowicz,

RVSM= Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum

try this for more info:
http://www.ecacnav.com/rvsm/default.htm

LY
That's why we're here.
 
CougarAviator
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:07 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:47 am

What a great shot!!!!!

some people have all the luck.....
Failure is not an option.....
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:01 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:58 am

Give the man credit! This is an awesome picture that involves a keen eye, lots of luck and that little thing called perspective. This is how the scenes with Frodo and Gandalf have been filmed (no planes at the time). Most certainly an authentic picture taken from the front office which allows for forward looking shots.
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:59 am

As far as I know, hand flying is even strongly discouraged in RVSM airspace because the autopilot can keep the altitude more precisely and reliably. So no big surprise that he could have concentrated on this magnificent shot.  Big thumbs up
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:49 am

I believe it is real. And it is not one in a million image. In fact, 3 months ago, I was flying in an AF B747 CDG-MIA and around three hours before arriving in MIA, a B767 (I guess) passed below us and our plane moved a bit because of the wind and I felt a noise like when you enter in a turbulence... The sad thing is that my camera was inside a bag ...And didn't have time for a picture.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
dash8tech
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 1999 8:40 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:04 am

As far as I know, hand flying is even strongly discouraged in RVSM airspace because the autopilot can keep the altitude more precisely and reliably. So no big surprise that he could have concentrated on this magnificent shot.

That is correct, if your Altitude Hold mode of Auto-Pilot is inoperative you are no longer allowed to continue in RVSM airspace.
 
User avatar
apuneger
Posts: 2964
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:43 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 am

Congratulations to Bailey for another great air-to-air shot. Would love to meet him once at AMS or so and have a nice chat.

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
mconway
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:01 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:44 am

In RVSM airspace, 1000 ft vertical separation is required regardless of direction of flight. The three aircraft are stacked 1000 ft apart. On the North Atlantic the separation minimas in RVSM airspace, F290-410 inclusive are:

1000 ft vertically
60 miles horizontally
10 minutes logitudinally

Regards.
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:55 am

What a great shot!!!!!

some people have all the luck..... And they have TCAS display infront of them  Smile
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:00 am

Okay, it's real, I didn't know the guy and it looked a bit..... unreal. Sorry.

Question: Isn't the minimum separation only allowed for planes flying in the same 'lane', same direction? If I remember correctly above the atlantic the 'lanes' westbound and Eastbound are separated.. I thought that rule was everywhere...


KL911
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:37 am

Of course its a real shot, Bailey is probably the single-most photographer on a.net that can come up with pics likes this (as well as TripleET etc)
 Smile
The luck of being a 777 pilot  Wink/being sarcastic
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:43 am

The three aircraft are stacked 1000 ft apart.

There has to be 2000' of seperation between the 777(?) (I'm assuming, he could be jumpseating on another a/c as seen in some of Bailey's pics.) and the A340. If those 2 A/C were 1000' apart, you would see the picture from behind the 747, and you would be headed in the same direction as the 747, with the A340 1000' below and facing the camera.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
mconway
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:01 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:03 am

The aircraft Bailey is flying is/could be 1000 ft above the 340 (flying in the same direction) which in turn is 1000 ft above the 747. This is perfectly legal in oceanic airspace. There is no requirement for planes flying in the same direction in RVSM airspace to be separated by 2000'. Trust me, I've worked at Gander ACC for over 12 years and have half a clue as to what I'm talking about  Smile
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:08 am

Isn't it any a/c heading in the same direction be seperated by 2000', so another aircraft can pass between them in the opposite direction? Such as the 1000' of seperation being the space between the 747 and 340?
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:19 am

IT IS NOT FAKE. CLOSE THE TOPIC....... or remove all of his pics  Nuts
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
747-600X
Posts: 2494
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 3:11 am

Distance Distortion

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:30 pm

Another quick comment on photography playing tricks with the eyes -

This shot is not as remarkable physically as it is aesthetically. Not only are the aircraft 1000' apart (we hope), but there is an enormous amount of horizontal space being lost on account of the angle of the photographer and the lens used. Depending on the lens, the aircraft in the picture may be up to several miles apart from one another.

Let's look, for example, at this recently-uploaded shot. Blow up to the Large version, and then take a gander at the approaching 757?. How far away do you think that aircraft is? The runway is probably at least a couple miles long (someone who knows wish to provide the actual length, esp. in km?) and the approaching jet is still a good distance from the threshold. So, that aircraft is probably 3-4 miles (up to 5 km) from the photographer. He also appears not to've used a very long lens for that shot; if he had, he could've made the 757 much larger (and over-filled his frame with the 747).

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © A J Best



So, with a shot such as the one in discussion here, a powerful enough lens can easily hide something like ten miles of space. The aircraft, when viewed from far above, would appear very small and quite far apart. This shot isn't so much "lucky" as it is "well composed." Someone knew when to be holding the camera and what settings to use.
 
n949wp
Posts: 1398
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 3:45 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:29 pm

Another one where the telephoto effect makes two planes look closer than they are:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Samuel Lo



This one however, is no optical illusion. They really are that close!!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Parker



 
stall
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:57 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:37 pm

Beautiful picture.
Thank you for sharing it with all of us Bailey !
Flying is fun
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:20 pm

Great shot! Not only is it entertainment for the flight crew but it's great for guys like us in the back of the bus who wish they were at the front!

Thanks!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Rotate
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:52 pm

RE: Explain This Photo...is This Real?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:39 pm

reading some of the above comments, I just can start to throw up my yesterdays evening meal ! incredibel how some people judge that picture, without having any clue about photography,bailey and separation!

This place has filled up with people talking to much and fast without doing research or anything like that!!!

shame on you guys ...

Robin
ABC

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos