NWFltAttendant
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:41 pm

Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:21 am

I was looking through SXM photos and found this one. I thought to myself, yes, this happens to a degree at just about every airline, but not the severity I see here. Is US cutting any corner possible now ? This looks horrible. Yeah theres the normal airlines that are known for dirty planes, I dont need to mention specifics, but this looks BAD. I know that this has no bearing on flight performance, but this is obviously a sign of whats going on at US right now.


View Large View Medium

Photo © Garry Lewis - AirTeamImages



[Edited 2004-08-12 01:34:36]
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:15 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:31 am

Looks bad.......good for a chuckle......but has no effect on the performance of the airplane. As long as the plane is in working order who cares??? When I was with Skyway they had to put speed tape on the radome of a 328Jet....did it look funny??? Yes...but the airplane flew the way it was supposed to. Right now we(C8) have a Saab flying around with duct tape on the side of the A/C. As long as the plane flies passengers from point A to point B who cares???

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12360
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:38 am

Perhaps this is an a/c that is due for replacement, retirement or repaint soon any way. Why worry about it, so long as not affecting the safety of the a/c is the issue. I do agree it does suggest that there are getting sloppy at the edges at US problems.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:43 am

As long as the plane is in working order who cares???

I think the average passenger cares, because then why would airlines spend so much on liveries, logos, names and the whole "corporate identity and image" circus.
What question comes naturally to one's mind when you see picture like this? "If it's so bad with things I CAN see, then how much worse it's gotta be with things I CAN'T see" This of course may or may not be in fact true, but it does no good to airline's prestige and reputation and passenger's trust that's for sure.
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:15 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:55 am

L410Turbolet.....

I agree it does look bad...especially if it's something visible that the pasengers can see. But I've worked on the other side of the operation and as long as the plane is in good working order I could care less if some paint is peeling.... Many of the average pax that do notice this kind of thing are enthusiasts. Like I said we have(or did...not sure if they fixed it yet) a Saab flying with duct tape on the side. I haven't had a pax say a word about it. So I agree it may indicate some airline sloppiness....but as long as the plane is in working order I couldn't care less.

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
transPac
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:59 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:17 am

I think you are making a fallacious assumption by connecting the condition of this particular plane to the financial difficulties that US is facing. I'd bet most of the big carriers have at least one or two planes at any given time that have similar rough spots. The plane in the picture is probably due for maintenance soon, as LTBEWR suggested. Unless you see a good number of bashed up birds in US colors, I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

--Paddy
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:32 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Brantjes
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier F. Bobadilla - IBERIAN SPOTTERS




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Cary Liao
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Scott Kiel




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marinus Bergsma
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Derden - SPOT THIS!



AAndrew
 
kim777fan
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:39 am

Yikes!! Those pictures in a rather short recent time span of multiple aircraft at multiple locations speak for themselves.

I've seen better paint jobs on Amtrak.
 
NWFltAttendant
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:41 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:17 am

Aa757...thanks for the picture parade
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:42 pm

US did open a paint track a few months ago for planes in need of new paint in advance of a heavy maintenance visit. They're working on the backlog, but some planes, particularly the 767s, can't be removed from service for even a short period because they're scheduled to the max during the summer travel period.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:49 pm

With all due respect, who cares?

Certainly not the average passenger, that's for sure. What DO they care about? Only one thing...the price tag on their ticket. If the paint job is really obvious, then it might be a 2 minute conversation at the gate while waiting to board, but that's where it ends. As long as Joe passenger gets the lowest price, he's happy.

When I flew SEA-IAD a little over a month ago, I noticed on that 757 that the paint on the tail cone looked exactly like this...and I'll bet I was the ONLY person on that plane to have noticed it.

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
kbuf737
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:01 pm

Didn't US have a problem with paint? I read a while back that it was chipping and cracking quite easily and as a result they converted some of the airplanes to the .com livery. I believe it had to do with switching from clearcoat to paint, and the paint had trouble sticking. This also led to a problem with lap joints cracking as well was there not?
The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
 
9844
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 12:36 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:07 pm

You all over looked the obvious. A leaking rudder PCU would cause the paint to peel in this location. That would scare me.
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:22 pm

I read a while back that it was chipping and cracking quite easily and as a result they converted some of the airplanes to the .com livery

Not quite. The two aircraft in the usairways.com livery (Acft 350 and 573) were damaged by a paint vendor in New Iberia, LA, who used razor blades to remove paint. The two aircraft had to be stripped of their paint and are frequently monitored for structural integrity.



670
 
N628AU
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 4:20 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:28 pm

9844 said:

You all over looked the obvious. A leaking rudder PCU would cause the paint to peel in this location. That would scare me.

N628AU responds:

You forgot something even more obvious: APU exhaust.

Note the pics above. Nearly every aircraft was factory delivered in the bare metal livery of USAir. These non-factory paint jobs were done horribly by an outside vendor (probably a penny wise pound foolish MBA awarded the deal). The 757 is plauged by chipping paint in this area due the heat of the APU exhaust peeling it away. Note many types with the APU exhaust in that area (ERJ 145 and CRJ 700 for example), have stainless non painted attachments at the exhaust point.
 
COEWR2587
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:09 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:33 pm

This is pretty sad!!!!!
Newark Airport...My Home Away From Home
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:49 pm

KBUF,
it makes sence! The only paint that is chipping off is the blue paint-the part that used to be polished.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
IL76
Posts: 2237
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:02 pm

I think US Airways made a mistake going to a black livery. It's very sensitive to heating up enormously under sunlight. The body panels expand (when the plane is on the ground) and shrink (in the air). I know that all planes have this regardless of their colour, but perhaps the black paint increases the speed of shrinking and expanding causing the paint to crack. Nothing wrong with the airplane though. I've seen this only on US Airways. Does anyone know any other airline with a black(-ish) livery to compare maybe?

Cheers,
Eduard
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:38 pm

These non-factory paint jobs were done horribly by an outside vendor (probably a penny wise pound foolish MBA awarded the deal).

There's actually a perfectly good reason why US shut down its paint tracks (around 1993 IIRC) and outsourced the aircraft painting. The EPA significantly tightened regulations and made the US paint facilities obsolete. The investment necessary to bring them up to standard was far too much to be worth it.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
aacun
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:47 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:54 pm

While were in the subject. This morning taking off from MIA I say a US 737 which had the black tail but the body of the plane was polished. Is this a test of some sort, or just a plane waiting for its full colors?
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:59 pm

While were in the subject. This morning taking off from MIA I say a US 737 which had the black tail but the body of the plane was polished. Is this a test of some sort, or just a plane waiting for its full colors?

See http://www.usairways.com/about/press/nw_04_0304.htm.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:58 pm

I think passengers do care a bit. If you are in the boarding area and parked by your jetway is a grubby Delta 727 with paint peeling from round the windscreen and the nosecone, it doesn't look that promising. And if when you board, the paint from around the doorframe and round the windows is peeling too, OK its not a major maintenance alert, but you do think, hmmmmm - how well are they looking after this poor old plane ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:09 pm

yes, it would be nice if it and others were repainted where and when needed. but with utilization rates and other factors, it makes sense why you might be seeing this.

of course, if there was an article about US taking the time and money to do a significant repainting of their fleet to address issues like these, i'm sure nobody on this forum would question their actions or make any comments about the appropriateness of such decisions given US' financial state.

damned if you do, damned if you don't...
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:42 pm

AF to wash their planes

US to paint their planes

Cheers  Big thumbs up

Micke
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
kbuf737
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:49 pm

Is it black or just a deep deep navy?
The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:47 pm

Is it black or just a deep deep navy?

I believe that it's supposed to be a deep dark navy livery.

Back when US had their silver livery, they were bragging about the 'weight savings' from using less paint; a claim that had since been debunked.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



Maybe they should've kept the old USAir livery instead of going for a modified Royal Jordanian look.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel Snoep
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeroen Hribar



Incidentally, the US 733 I flew from PHL to DFW last Friday (N532AU) had peeling paint along the top right-hand side of the fuselage.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:22 pm

The paint damage points to a leaking rudder PCU in the past (though I can´t make out any currnt leakage on the picture), Skydrol hydraulic fluid has the properties of a good paint stripper, and the damage is right beneath the access panels for the rudder mechanism.
Concerning the idea about paint damage through heat from the APU exhaust, this is utter BS.
First, the APU is sited aft of the damage, secondly, it is encased in a stainless steel APU compartement (to contain a possible APU fire). During APU operation a fan blows continously cooling air through this compartment and overboard through a hole on the left side (just aft and below the elevator). The APU exhaust pipe is even further aft and is insulated.
If the heat in this compartment would be high enough to cause damage, the APU fire warning would go off.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:59 pm

I personally prefer dark liveries. They look much classier. As for the chipping paint at the APU region - that is caused by the APU exhaust. That's why on a few of our (United) 767s, the area is unpainted - just silver.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:10 pm

AN-225,

I just stated that the damaged area is not even near the APU exhaust pipe, but instead right beneath the rudder PCUs (I´ve changed rudder PCUs on B757s several times, I´ve changeed APUs on 757s as well). You can make out the forward outline of the APU compartment door about foot aft of the number 612 under the elevator. It is exactly in the area leaking skydrol would run to. Also, right under the paint damage area are the trunnions of the horizontal stab and the elevator mechanism. The APU is further aft.


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
757drvr
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:39 am

With all due respect, who cares?

While most of us know that it really doesn't reflect the overall airworthiness, some passengers might think otherwise especially the ones that don't fly very much. I am sure that some passengers wonder what else might be going neglected if they can't even keep the airplane looking somewhat nice. There are many nervous flyer's out there that are probably more nervous when they see an airplane with all the paint coming off pull up to the gate. I am sure it crosses their mind a few times during the flight.
 
aeroc
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:05 am

RE: Is US Really This Desperate Now?

Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:08 am

HI All,

Just got back in from flying and on final app in ROC noticed a Dash-8 in the holding bay either departing for PHL or LGA which are both on ground stops from the sound of things and noticed both props shut down. I know the dash-8 has a APU but I don't think I have seen both props stopped while pax are on board. That's probably a great way to save a lot of cash when the ground stop is a long one. Just a thought.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 777PHX, alggag, AS512, Baidu [Spider], BobbyPSP, cc47, Cubsrule, FlyHossD, hkcanadaexpat, keesje, lostsound, Ropsten, Thenoflyzone, usxguy, Wingtip1005, xms3200, zkncj and 307 guests