kalakaua
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Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:13 am

"Old" news around A.net, but media thinks otherwise...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10424778%255E23349,00.html

Excerpt:

Qantas is considered a prime candidate for the new 777 after Air New Zealand confirmed its order for up to 52 777s and the smaller 7E7s this week.

The Australian airline is evaluating its long-range options to complement its 555-seat A380 to be delivered in the second half of 2006.

These include the 320-seat A340-500/600, more 747-400ERs, second-hand 747-400s and the 365-seat 777-300ER and 300-seat 777-200LR.

But analysts suggest that for Boeing to win a 777 order from Qantas, the Seattle manufacturer would have to take Qantas's A330s as a trade-in.

Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
brons2
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The A

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:23 am

Taking A330 as a tradein to be leased to 7E7 customers who want a plane NOW might be a good idea.

What is QF's A332/A333 mix?
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SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:28 am

BOEING promises that its 777-200LR will fly the 17,000km from London to Sydney in just over 19 hours - but it's not clear whether Qantas will buy.

Boeing says the latest version of the 777 will commence flying next year, with capacity for 300 passengers and cargo on a non-stop trip to Sydney.

Qantas is considered a prime candidate for the new 777 after Air New Zealand confirmed its order for up to 52 777s and the smaller 7E7s this week.


It seems that the media has confused itself by accident. ANZ has ordered the 773ER, not the 772LR. The planes have quite different market targets which would not explain why QF might be considered a candidate after ANZ placed their order, unless the media thinks that since New Zealand and Australia are so similar that they will order the same planes (even though that have historically). Sorry everyone: I am experiencing media aggravation.  Insane

-Will
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SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:29 am

Taking A330 as a tradein to be leased to 7E7 customers who want a plane NOW might be a good idea.
QF would most likely turn the planes in as they get 777s.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:46 am

ANZ has ordered the 773ER

...funny, ANZ doesn't seem to know about that  Big grin
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RT514
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:47 am

But analysts suggest that for Boeing to win a 777 order from Qantas, the Seattle manufacturer would have to take Qantas's A330s as a trade-in.

In my opinion, Satan will be digging out of hell's biggest snowstorm before Boeing buys more Airbus aircraft. Besides, it would be so much nicer (and more dignified) to see the B777 make sales based on its many merits, rather than based on the promise of a trade-in deal.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:47 am

The 777s would be rubbish in the LHR-SYD role. QF needs CAPACITY on that route, the 777 would be a drop.

The Transpacifics are where it would fit in, offering service to east coast cities in the US.

Again the old Boeing trade-in story surfaces...when will people realise that Boeing isn't a second hand car dealer gone upmarket? They only take trades which are worthwhile, not billions of dollars worth of aircraft for no sensible reason. The SQ deal was a special case. Not for the first time the 'analysts' are talking out of their arses.
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JeffDCA
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:49 am

Personally my money's on them getting the A340, simply because they're pleased with their A330's, and they're getting A380's. It makes sense to stick with Airbus, at least on the long haul fleet.

Cheers,

Jeff
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brons2
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The A

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:51 am

ANZ has ordered the 773ER

ANZ has OPTIONED the 773ER. I believe the number is 16, but don't quote me on that.
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BCAInfoSys
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:53 am

WRONG Brons, sorry to burst your bubble.

According to us (Boeing), we only recognize 4 firm 772ER orders, and 4 772ER LOI's. We don't currently recognize ANY options from NZ.

Steve
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:53 am

This article is apparently speculating on a time scale far from the near-term.

It speaks of replacing 747s with 773ERs and A380s... something QF isnt interested in doing for a looooooooong time.
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brons2
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The A

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:55 am

BCAInfoSys, are you speaking OFFICIALLY for Boeing?

I am about to contact the Media Relations department via email, so we'll see what they have to say about it. The avaiation press has reported differently than what you say. No offense intended but I am going to get a 2nd opinion on that.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:59 am

Obviously, I don't speak officially for Boeing. But I just checked one of our official databases that lists current aircraft, as well as aircraft that are on order/optioned, etc... and the only entries for NZ are the 8 772ERs I mentioned earlier.

So essentially, I don't speak as an official spokesman for the company. But unless our database is lying to us, then we're not recognizing any options right now.

P.S. I just realized that I may have come across a little harsh, that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to let you know, that to the best of my knowledge, there are no options.  Smile

[Edited 2004-08-12 20:01:58]
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Greg
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:30 am

Boeing has been in the used aircraft market for close to 40+ years....they would gladly accept the Airbus A330's.

It's quite common for them to take trades to complete a deal---all part of the game.

Did they get burned with the SQ340's? Not if you consider the outcome.
Would they do it again? For a 77 airframe sale....you better believe it!
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:10 am

ANZ has ordered the 773ER

...funny, ANZ doesn't seem to know about that

You are correct, my mistake. (You certainly know your Boeing orders.  Big grin)

ANZ has placed an option for 17 777-300ERs.

According to us (Boeing), we only recognize 4 firm 772ER orders, and 4 772ER LOI's. We don't currently recognize ANY options from NZ.
ANZ has (tentatively) approved the options, including the 773ER options.

The 777s would be rubbish in the LHR-SYD role. QF needs CAPACITY on that route, the 777 would be a drop.
The opening line of that news article is just to get your attention. The plane is capable of flying that route, although the article is quick to point out the routes for the 777s: "If Qantas went ahead with the 777 option - both the 300ER and 200LR - the aircraft would complement the A380 and replace the airline's 747 fleet on routes where the A380 was too big."
Basically, do not expect to see 777s on LHR-SYD, but LHR to smaller Australian cities is a possibility - as well as Australia to a number of other destinations besides LHR.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:18 am

Well then Brons, you have your answer, courtesy of SafetyDude. NZ has only recently tenatively approved the options, and so once they are official, then we'll update our system.

Thanks Will for setting the matter straight.
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RayChuang
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:22 am

If QF is looking for more long-range aircraft one model that could be seriously considered is the Airbus A340-600HGW.

You not only have commonality with the A330-200/300 fleet, but the A346HGW has enough range to fly between MEL and LAX year round (thanks to the A346HGW's 8,000 nautical mile still-air range).
 
gigneil
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:26 am

ANZ has ordered the 773ER, not the 772LR.

They've ordered neither plane.

QF would most likely turn the planes in as they get 777s.

"Turn them in" to whom?

People don't buy new planes and exercise new options just to turn them or sell them on a whim. Just because SQ did it once doesn't make it wise for everyone to do it.

QF doesn't need the 777 on the routes they're flying the 333 on. If they did, they'd have bought them.

At this point, its wishful thinking that Qantas will get the 777. They just don't need it for anything at this point.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:28 am

Also worth mentioning... the 772LR still has one more considerable performance boost on the way, if you'll take into account that Boeing intends to certify it with uprates of the GE90 sooner or later.
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gigneil
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:47 am

While that may improve its relative performance to the current edges of its range, I doubt that will increase its capacity to carry fuel.

N
 
B2707SST
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:54 am

ANZ has placed an option for 17 777-300ERs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that ANZ's 42 options have been subdivided by type -- that is, one option can be used to purchase any member of the 7E7 or 777 families. I can certainly see them going for the 773ER in a few years, but I don't think they've committed to it yet even at the option level.

http://www.airnewzealand.com/aboutus/mediacentre/pressreleases/airnz_announces_long_haul_fleet.htm

Mr Norris says Air New Zealand's decision to secure rights to purchase a further 42 aircraft reflects the airline's belief in the potential to expand its passenger and cargo business into new long haul destinations and increase traffic from existing core routes.

"The purchase rights will give us the ability to choose from a range of aircraft types that best suit our long haul business as it develops in the future. The aircraft options will include the Boeing 777-200 ER, 777-200 LR, 7E7 and the 777-300 ER, which could replace our Boeing 747s in about a decade," he says.

--B2707SST
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SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:10 am

Thanks Will for setting the matter straight.
Oh no problem, but I am sorry for starting the issue in the first place!

If QF is looking for more long-range aircraft one model that could be seriously considered is the Airbus A340-600HGW.
and, QF doesn't need the 777 on the routes they're flying the 333 on. If they did, they'd have bought them
I have mentioned in other topics that a few people from QF have said how the 330 order was a "mistake" and that 764s and 777s should have been bought instead and they were trying to "fix" the issue. Those words not mine, so please do not yell at me.

ANZ has ordered the 773ER, not the 772LR.

They've ordered neither plane.

Thank you for reading replies 1-14 discussing that issue.  Big grin

QF would most likely turn the planes in as they get 777s.

"Turn them in" to whom?

They would turn them into Boeing.

People don't buy new planes and exercise new options just to turn them or sell them on a whim. Just because SQ did it once doesn't make it wise for everyone to do it.
From the article: "But analysts suggest that for Boeing to win a 777 order from Qantas, the Seattle manufacturer would have to take Qantas's A330s as a trade-in."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that ANZ's 42 options have been subdivided by type
It was kind of quiet news: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1686941.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
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yyz717
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:24 am

But analysts suggest that for Boeing to win a 777 order from Qantas, the Seattle manufacturer would have to take Qantas's A330s as a trade-in.

If Boeing is serious about regaining QF's longhaul business, a comprehensive offer of the 7E7, 773ER, 772LR with a buy back of the 332/333 fleet will likely be a requirement.
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B2707SST
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:44 am

It was kind of quiet news: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1686941

Thanks for the link, but there's still a problem. If the ATWonline report is accurate (42 options = 17 773ER, 9 772ER, 16 7E7), the statement from ANZ's press release that I quoted above must be incorrect, as the ATW breakdown doesn't include any 772LR options.

I'm not saying the ATW story is wrong, but I wouldn't place too much weight on it until ANZ and/or Boeing confirm the options breakdown.

--B2707SST

[Edited 2004-08-12 23:45:10]
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:46 am

While that may improve its relative performance to the current edges of its range, I doubt that will increase its capacity to carry fuel.

True, but what it would do is increase its potential payload capacity, ergo increasing its potential for revenue; thus further assisting whatever justification can be made for any such C-market flights.
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SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:58 am

Thanks for the link, but there's still a problem. If the ATWonline report is accurate (42 options = 17 773ER, 9 772ER, 16 7E7), the statement from ANZ's press release that I quoted above must be incorrect, as the ATW breakdown doesn't include any 772LR options.

In all of the news stories I read, I never read anything about 772LR options.

 Smile
-Will
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:02 am

I never read anything about 772LR options.

well... did you bother reading the airline's own press release?  Laugh out loud

"The aircraft options will include the Boeing 777-200 ER, 777-200 LR, 7E7 and the 777-300 ER, which could replace our Boeing 747s in about a decade," he says."
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The A

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:14 am

The 777s would be rubbish in the LHR-SYD role. QF needs CAPACITY on that route, the 777 would be a drop.

I completely agree that QF needs the capacity on this route. As I understand it, QF opperates SYD-BKK-LHR and SYD-SIN-LHR, all with the 744. But how about a single SYD-LHR (non-stop) with a 772LR and SYD-SIN/BKK with a 773ER going on to LHR?

Roughly the same (if not a slight increase) capacity, greater passenger options ?
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:20 am

I never read anything about 772LR options.

well... did you bother reading the airline's own press release?

I never saw it. If I did read about it, I probably got so confused by now with all of this they-ordered-this-not that talk.  Big grin

-Will
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bill142
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:21 am

The 777s would be rubbish in the LHR-SYD role. QF needs CAPACITY on that route, the 777 would be a drop

A niche aircraft operating a niche route. If people need to get from UK-AU fast, non-stop is going to appeal to them espcially if it cuts 4 - 5 hours off the flying time and the 1 hour layover in Singapore, Bangkok or Hong Kong is no longer needed.

If Boeing is serious about regaining QF's longhaul business, a comprehensive offer of the 7E7, 773ER, 772LR

QF stated a few weeks ago, that although the liked the 7E7 they weren't interested in at the moment and any QF order for it is years away.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:27 am

I completely agree that QF needs the capacity on this route. As I understand it, QF opperates SYD-BKK-LHR and SYD-SIN-LHR, all with the 744. But how about a single SYD-LHR (non-stop) with a 772LR and SYD-SIN/BKK with a 773ER going on to LHR?

It's a serious moneymaker route for them. There could be some mileage in a 772LR operating in a premium layout though, for the business travellers who need to get to and from Australia quickly.

The 773ER is still a drop from the 744 though, and QF can fill their planes without much of a problem. There's also good cargo to think of.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:38 am

There's also good cargo to think of.

Keep in mind though that a 773ER actually offers more cargo capacity (and similar payload uplift) to a pax 744.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The A

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:39 am

The 773ER is still a drop from the 744 though, and QF can fill their planes without much of a problem. There's also good cargo to think of.

Well... I figure a decent amount of traffic on these routes are connecting passengers going onto LHR. I still figure there would be some connecting traffic, but with a non-stop option, could a smaller aircraft be utilized?
 
jupiter2
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:50 am

In regards to the 777LR being a capacity drop, please let us remember that QF are getting the 380's, so if 3 out of the 4 daily flights to LHR operate with the 380 and one flight is operated as a premium flight with approx 240 seats non-stop with 777LR there is still going to be an increase in capacity over four 390 seat 744's.
Order them QF, use them in conjuction with the 330's, other airlines seem to be able to.
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Qantasclub
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:24 am


This is a secret fantasy of mine, to see the Boeing 777 in Qantas colours. It would be just fantastic. From a pax point of view, SO much better to fly in than an A340.
How possible is the SYD-LHR proposal-do people think they would really get there? It would seem that based on previous discussions, this was just not possible.
SYD/MEL to LHR is QF's premier long haul high capacity route. Cutting out the stopover and lowering costs with a more fuel efficient aircraft would seem like a good idea for Qantas. Geoff Dixon has recently said that they were not looking at buying the B777 but Qf has a habit of sudden and unexpected announcements, so my fantasy could come true after all!
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whitehatter
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:25 am

I think there would indeed be a case for a mix of types on the route.

Ideally I'd like to see QF operating a 772LR on a nonstop fast service, and a 747X to handle the cargo and passenger volumes which don't need a premium service. Somehow I have my reservations about the A380 on the kangaroo route being the best option for QF.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:21 am

seems alot of people from everywhere but australia seem to know what qantas is or isn't about to do, few facts for you all!

AirNZ has ordered 8 772ER aircraft and 2 7E7's

it will have the option to purchase an additional 42 aircraft should they choose to.

Qantas will release on of financial year results on 19 august, don't look for any announcements until after that date, i am not into the A vs B bullshit, but i think you will find QF may lean towards the A345. as you can see Qantas has been leaning heavily towards airbus in recent time, A330, A380 and more recently the A320 for Jetstar.

time will tell!
 
A388
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:03 am

I think it's nice and interesting to discuss rumours coming from the media about potential airline orders. But, regarding this possible QF interest in the 777 (and/or 7E7), I just don't know. I find it saver to wait untill both QF and the aircraft manufacturers make their official announcements/press releases.

Both the A345 and/or 777LR seem attractive for QF, according to the rumours floating around. On the one hand the A345 would better fit the QF longhaul fleet, as they already operate the A332/333 and will receive the A388 as well. Operating the A345 would be more interesting from an operational point of view, as well as commonality between these aircraft types. But, the 777 family has been very popular with airlines around the world. The success of the 777 up until now cannot be matched by Airbus. It is a proven aircraft as well as the A340, but the A340 just hasn't enjoyed the success the 777 has. I think we can all agree on this.

If QF is really disappointed with their A330s, than I can imagine they are looking at the 777/7E7 mix, but if QF is satisfied with the A330, I would think the A345 would be much more attractive to QF. It sometimes appears nobody really knows how satisfied QF is with their A330s.

So, as I've said, we will have to wait for official announcements from both QF and the aircraft manufacturer rather than claiming QF would be interested in a trade-in or not, based on intelligence of the media. The media and rumours are not reliable sources if you would ask me. These two are very closely related to each other.

Whether QF will chose the 777 or A340 I do not mind. Both aircraft are proven aircraft, with one having more success than the other, but still they are both very good aircraft.

Regards A388  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
777ER
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:25 am

Air NZ have ordered 8 B772ERs and 2 B7e7s. Air NZ have options on a further 42 B777 and B7e7 family planes. In About 8-9 years the B744 fleet replacement will be announced and the B773ER will replace them.
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Sydscott
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:58 am


Lets put this debate into some sort of perspective shall we.

"Both the A345 and/or 777LR seem attractive for QF, according to the rumours floating around."

For what route exactly???? PER-LHR is out of the question and has been done to death on a.net. There simply isn't the premium pax and flying them from SYD or MEL to Perth for the service doesn't really make that much sense. Why spend 4-5 hours on a plane to Perth and another what 15-16 hours flying direct to London. In the end it probably isn't faster than the current one-stop. QF's current strategy of dumping everyone in Singapore to fill 747's heading to Heathrow and Frankfurt has worked well for years. Why kill it, and potentially their profits, by adding direct services for premium passengers??? Besides which the A380's will provide even more capacity in the LHR routes in the future via Singapore.

Coupled with this is the fact that QF doesn't have the slots @ LHR to commence new services beyond it's new Hong Kong allocation. So another service will have to be reduced to allow for an A345 type direct service.

SYD-DFW and SYD-Vancouver have also been done to death but for arguments sake let's raise them again. QF currently operates to LAX roughly 3 times daily from SYD, daily from MEL and Auckland and 3 times a week from BNE. Presumably A380's will be deployed on at least some of the SYD-LAX sevices therefore providing a significant capacity upgrade. Again the QF strategy has been to dump large numbers of passenger at LAX and let AA and it's other partners fly them domestically from there. This has produced great results for QF in the past. SYD-DFW may be attractive route but why add small numbers of a niche aircraft to your fleet just to fly 1 route??? QF don't have a history of doing this and I don't think they will do it in the future.
SYD-Vancouver on the other hand is quite an easy route to predict. If Air Canada launches a direct service then you can almost count on QF doing the same in time. The only problem there is that QF has no feed at Vancouver.

"If QF is really disappointed with their A330s, than I can imagine they are looking at the 777/7E7 mix, but if QF is satisfied with the A330, I would think the A345 would be much more attractive to QF. It sometimes appears nobody really knows how satisfied QF is with their A330s."

QF originally bought their A332's for short haul domestic flying in the SYD-MEL-BNE corridor. That proved to be a failure and they were disappointed by it. However this had more to do with the fact they couldn't turn the plane around fast enough for these sorts of services. Instead they now have the A332's flying from SYD & MEL to PER, (medium haul 4-5 hour flights), where the turn around at both ends is longer. Low and behold they are happy with the aircraft. Right plane used for the right purpose.

As for the A333's, the jury would only now be making a judgement on them since they commenced International Services. It will be interesting to hear what QF thinks and how they perform over the coming weeks. That will be the real litmus test for the A330 fleet.

"Cutting out the stopover and lowering costs with a more fuel efficient aircraft would seem like a good idea for Qantas."

But on the other hand taking all your premium passengers and putting them on a new service doesn't make much sense $$$ wise as it is them who are the most profitable to a carrier such as QF. If this was to occur then services would be cut from Singapore to compensate.

Sorry to spoil your fantasy Qantasclub but I don't think you'll see a 777 in QF colours anytime soon either.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:13 pm

Let me sort this out for all you guys who are hellbent on saying we have ordered/optioned the 772LR. We HAVE NOT optioned ANY 772LR at all. We have PURCHASE RIGHTS on more 772ER, 773ER and 7E7 aircraft. Once again, NO 772LR. Can't make it clearer than that can I.

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SafetyDude
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:28 pm

SYD-DFW and SYD-Vancouver have also been done to death but for arguments sake let's raise them again
DFW? I would expect SFO a bit before DFW.

Let me sort this out for all you guys who are hellbent on saying we have ordered/optioned the 772LR. We HAVE NOT optioned ANY 772LR at all. We have PURCHASE RIGHTS on more 772ER, 773ER and 7E7 aircraft. Once again, NO 772LR. Can't make it clearer than that can I.
That has been addressed many times.

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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:51 pm

The only problem there is that QF has no feed at Vancouver.

That can soon be changed. Although QF dosn't have many options in Canada. Westjet and jetsgo are really the only options that come to mind as real options, but Air Canada could be a very long shot on domestic codeshares only. (yes I am aware of the alliances)
 
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:06 pm


"SYD-DFW and SYD-Vancouver have also been done to death but for arguments sake let's raise them again DFW? I would expect SFO a bit before DFW."

SYD-SFO has also been done to death and the same problem applies even more so to SFO that applies to Vancouver. Why would QF attempt to compete with UAL at it's major Western hub by flying directly from SYD to SFO as well??? The simple answer is they won't because the AA feed isn't at SFO but it IS at LAX. ANZ is in Star with UAL so it makes sense for them to fly there.

Beno could probably shed more light on QF's plans however.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:00 pm

QF have also confirmed 1 more of their A330 options, leaning towards the opinion they aren't getting rid of them anytime soon. I'd also think the A340 would have more of a chance for the 777. QF have missed the boat with the 777
 
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:31 pm

Okay, I'll give it to you Aussies that know more about your home country airline than do I, but I can tell you right now that QF is not going to invest a whole lot into any AUS-SFO routes. LAX is another story because you have biz pax, tourist pax (both ways), and some AA connections via LAX to other parts of the US. It has been THE moneymaker for that airline for years and I doubt they mess with that. Maybe they'll add capacity, change planes or whatever, but they'll keep that route goin strong for a long time. BUT - would it not be a feasible idea to try out a 3x weekly SYD-DFW or SYD-ORD route with one of the ultra long range jets? I don't care if it's been beaten to death on this site, I still want to talk about it. Maybe SYD-ORD would have more biz pax but DFW would be better (timing) for connections via AA. Maybe most Aussies want to do the LA, , San Fran, Chicago, New York thing but those that don't would be better suited (I would think from all of the complaints I hear about connecting through LAX) going through DFW or ORD.

Let's hear it...
 
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:42 pm

Lets hope Qantas for Australia's sake takes the A340. QF won't trade in the A330's for the 7E7 yet or 777.

[Edited 2004-08-13 08:43:37]
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:55 pm

What do you mean, "For Australia's sake..." ? Weirdo  Smile

QF will do whatever makes the most economic sense - and if that means the 777, it'll be the 777. If that means the A340, it'll be the A340. Either way, whatever decision they make, it'll probably be the right one. QF management tend to be very good.

Incidentally, Boeing and the other manufacturers routinely take "trade-ins" of aircraft for resale on the second hand market. It's not uncommon at all!

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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:18 pm

Sorry matter of opinion i should of said for my sake.
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RE: Qantas Proposal For B777 Is Still "Up In The Air"

Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:03 pm

In the past the A-net Qantas experts have explained many times that Qantas got the A330 for practically nothing as an enticement to buy the A380.

Why then would they trade in their free fleet only to replace them with a far more expensive to buy replacement?

QF seems happy enough with the A330 to convert an option for one and I expect over time more options will be converted.

Of course the niche market of ultra long range flights looks like it's worth a try to some but QF will do their homework first and make sure it's economically viable and not just trial and error. If they were to pursue this I'd expect to see them go for a level of fleet commonality rather than introducing a whole new type.

Seems to me the wish of a QF 777 is just that.
I remember when the DC-3 was new!