777ER
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US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:35 pm

US Airways is in serious trouble. The Airline could be bankrupt by mid September.
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7LBAC111
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:36 pm

Whats your source on this?
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
777ER
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:38 pm

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7LBAC111
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:59 pm

Sorry 777ER but I cannot find this story - have you got a more specific link?
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:21 pm

The New York times is also warning of the demise of US Airways.

I would post the link, but you need to be a subscriber so here are some of the high lights:

Absent a new cost structure, the report said US Airways could cease to operate within 180 to 270 days - meaning sometime between March and June, regardless of whether it seeks bankruptcy protection.

But there has been resistance to US Airways' push for cutbacks among employees who are skeptical that the situation is really so dire, both within the pilots union and among other labor groups.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/13/business/13pilots.html



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flylondon
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:40 pm

This has also just been reported on CNBC Europe citing a union official who says thay may file for bankruptcy within a month.

Other sources:
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B166A32E1-0BF5-4C71-B455-89BB25F874AD%7D&siteid=google&dist=google
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=5965071
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61539-2004Aug12.html


[Edited 2004-08-13 13:45:35]
 
7LBAC111
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:43 pm

Jeez - then things really are bad with US, on top of the cutting those 20 routes at PIT earlier,

What I don;t understand is why US employees are doing so much to limit the options for their company. Whats better - a pay cut/pay freeze or no job...erm duh!

Mark
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N754PR
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:30 pm

Unions, a pain in the butt.

Like others have said, whats more important a pay cut or no job.......
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freshlove1
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:02 pm

This I believe this is a totally false report. We are doing just fine. This is once again upper managements way of putting fear into the employees so they will take the cuts. If US does go back into Ch.11 it will be to break the unions contracts and re-do the pay structure. Unfortunately one way or another the pay-cuts will come. It's just hard to say what road everyone will take to get it done. The pilots are talking about a pay-cut so I have no idea where the assumption about resistance by them is coming from. The Unions will hold out until the last minuet and then come to some sort of deal. Everyone knows what is on the line here. Unfortunately some of you would love to see US go under, but it is not going to happen, sorry to rain on your parade. In this industry every airline will at some point be in a situation like this and will have to re-do their business plan to succeed. Look at CO and HP for examples.
 
John
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:16 pm

YES folks, this is a THREAT(and a ploy) to the employees in hopes that we'll come to our senses! Well...I've taken 2 paycuts already, surrendered some holidays and I only get paid at 75% of my rate when I take a friggin' vacation! PLUS, I was furloughed for nearly 2 years! I've PAID my dues! ENOUGH is ENOUGH!! And BTW, >ADVANCE BOOKINGS<, are very strong and US could very well post another profit for the 3rd quarter, SO...how would that justify another trip into bankruptcy?
 
airtran737
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:21 pm

Hey why don't you read this article from the USA Today on 8-13-04. ALPA hired an investment banker to look at the books, and he found that US is a sinking ship, listing to the side and filling with water.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-08-13-usair-woes_x.htm
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7LBAC111
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:32 pm

With all due respect to you US employees, you all seem to know an awful lot about your companies finances.

Why would US upper management risk the negative fallout that being close to bankruptcy generates? Ultimately people will become fearful that their holiday or honeymoon or business trip may not happen if the carrier goes under, and will stop booking US. This alone will force you closer to extinction.

Take the pay cuts, concessions etc and when the company begins to show profits and returns to its pre 9/11 peak, then you can start to reap the rewards. In the same way CO's employees are now.

Just my two British pence worth.

Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:53 pm

Well, if the Pilots think that US Airways is a sinking ship, then they BETTER get to the bargaining table and take some paycuts...I have this for a question though...if US Airways goes the way of the dinosaur, would the Star Alliance Silver status that I have achieved (through being US Airways Silver Preferred) still apply, or would I be between a rock and a hard place in that respect?
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InnocuousFox
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:09 am

I didn't realize there was so much sand in PHL. How much sand WOULD it take to hold the heads of the US employees there? Maybe they take turns sticking their heads in? Hmm... something to ponder.
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FRA2DTW
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:19 am

The impact of US disappearing from the aviation scene would be short-lived. Several other airlines have contingency plans to fill the void quickly, especially relatively healthy competitors like WN, CO, NW, even Delta and American, to serve the East Coast. The employees would be most affected, of course, and would be paying the price for management incompetence and union arrogance. But that's the free market system and George W is telling us that new jobs are being created all the time - at McDonald's.
 
AZjetgeek
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:24 am

I would tend to believe both Freshlove1 and John in this matter. First, US employees have taken pay cuts and other concessions over the past three or four years. Those of you who say these people should take more cuts may not be aware of this. But if you are and still insist that taking more cuts is the way to go, perhaps you should walk in their (US employees) shoes first.

There's an old saying about going to the well once too often. US management is falling right in line with that phrase. I think it's past time to think that pay cuts will save this airline. As much as it weakens US' standing at PIT, cutting flights from there to 20 destinations was a step in the right direction.

Management might also want to consider streamlining their fleet. Take a look at their website with special consideration given to their fleet. They have entirely too much duplication, especially among their RJ's and turboprops.

Another questionable move this airline recently made was expanding its international flights out of CLT. If you're cutting domestic service, how can you justify international expansion? Is it pure speculation that they'll turn a profit on those flights out of CLT? I would say so. It's a gamble and management seems to be willing to play with their employees' pay.
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clipperno1
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:31 am

This story comes up every two weeks now, yet US is still alive.
Add tot that they lately joined Star Alliance. I don't think the Star board would have let them join unless they didn't believe they were able to survive. They are quite picky I think.
How far are we about the topic regarding how much of an US airline's stake can be hold by foreign investors? Some carriers could be happy to jump in and get the extensive east coast network of US.

It sometimes seems to me, that several investors, public or private, want to see a legacy carrier to go down, in order to somehow justify the enormus sums injected into the aviation industry.
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John
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:35 am

A question for those people on this forum who would like nothing better than to see US Airways FAIL and thousands of people unemployed, I ask you, WHAT do YOU do for a living?
 
dtwclipper
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:37 am

John,

I don't think anyone wants US to fail and put thousands of people out of work.

My biggest worry, is that the employees of US will do to themselves what the workers of Eastern did. That would be a shame.

dtwclipper
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DAL7001
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:38 am

Not myself, I lived in PIT and have family and friends who work for US. I hope for the best as I do for the legacy I work for in ATL.
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NIKV69
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:39 am

Freshlove1,

Though I admire your faith in the face of adversity, face it, US is a sinking ship. In a year it will be gone. It has nothing to offer. With WN and B6 growing and changing the face of air travel we are not going to need US anymore, not with old planes and high fares. If you choose to lower your fares you will still die since your debt is too much to overcome. The end is in sight. Nobody here wants to see US go under, but it is going to happen.
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7LBAC111
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:47 am

John

It's a discussion forum. Nobody WANTS to see US fail - get a grip.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
airtran737
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:02 am

I want to see US fail. There are too many airlines as it is right now. I feel for the employees, but only a little bit. Their employee appointed union leaders are the ones who negotiated the contracts that are now starving the airline of any earned cash. An example needs to be made, and US is poised to be that example.
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John
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:04 am

Let's face it, there are some people here that have a HARD ON for US Airways and I have grown tired of all the cynicism. There are currently 2 other "legacy" carriers in financial dire straits right now, so why just POINT the finger specifically at US Airways? Let me give you this scenario to ponder: If your boss told you I'm sorry, but you have to take a $7.00 per hour pay cut, what would YOUR reaction be?
 
TWFirst
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:07 am

My reaction would be that if I didn't want to take a $7 per hour pay cut, I would start looking for another job that pays the amount I want to be paid... what is your reaction?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:18 am



711LBAc asked.......What I don;t understand is why US employees are doing so much to limit the options for their company. Whats better - a pay cut/pay freeze or no job...erm duh


Because the Boys and Girls at the top are still recieveng generous pay raises and sweet sweet quarterly/annual bonuses and tend to ask for those(the employees) who make the big wheel turn for their wages back.

With out those little people who work at the ResCTR, ATO,Baggage, Pilots,F/As, ect the airline will cease to operate....many airline employees have given all they can back....there isnt much more to give back.
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ual777contrail
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:19 am

From what I understand they are pretty low as far as industry averages go. How much more can you give before you have given it all? Hope the best for US, I know the CSR's are going to take a hit next.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
jumbojet
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:49 am

If the upper echelons of management are still receiving these raises/bonuses and in the same breathe ask for more $$ back from the employees, then their is a serious problem here. Any more wage recessions, and before you know it, management will ask its employees to volunteer their time so that all the profit can go to management salaries, bonuses. I believe that management has to set the example and take the next round of pay cuts.
 
JMV
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:54 am

Some highlights from an article in the Wall Street Journal (link provided for those with WSJ accounts) http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109235140018690484,00.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

"Investment bankers working for the pilots union at US Airways Group Inc. warned that the carrier could fail in the near future and is highly likely to file for bankruptcy protection by mid-September without needed cost cuts."

"The report -- prepared by Glanzer & Co., longtime banker for the union -- was distributed amid a logjam in negotiations between the company and the pilots over givebacks."

"Capt. Bill Pollock, chairman of the ALPA group at US Airways, in a cover letter introducing the report, said the union's leadership council "does not disagree in principal with the conclusions" reached by Glanzer. "The reality of our financial situation speaks for itself," he said."

"The Glanzer report, which had intended to poke holes in US Airways' assumptions, turnaround plan and requests for labor concessions, didn't find many. US Airways' plan, which calls for it to model itself after discounters such as America West Holdings, JetBlue Airways and AirTran Holdings, "is a thoughtful effort to devise a viable business plan, considering the company's assets and financial condition," the report said."

Sorry, but US employees that think the dire warnings of financial doom are just a management ploy may want to reconsider. This isn't coming from "management" but from bankers representing the rank and file.
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S12PPL
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:05 am

As I read through this thread, I have to chuckle at the USAirways employees. You guys are like Michael Jackson fans denying that he could ever molest boys. USAirways employees, I hate to say it. But you are all in some serious denial. Go back and read what you've posted Freshlove1, and others. Don't you sound a little desperate? It sure sounds to me like yoru clinging onto what little hope you can still hold out, and dont' want to hear that your precious airline is taking on waaaay to much water. Now, you lash out at anyone that even suggests your airline is dying off fast.

No one here wishes USAirways to go under, and no one here wishes all of it's employees out of work and searching desperatly for a new job. That's not the feeling I get from reading everyone's posts here, at least. Believe that this is upper managements "ploy" to get you all and your pilots to take pay cuts, if you must. If that's what makes it easier for you to accept what's un-folding, then ok. You can't deny what several, yes, several sources have reported, though. USAirways is heading twards bankrupcy faster than a fat kid running for a chocolate bar. And when they hit the wall....Look out.
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pilotntrng
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:34 am

Hey sorry folks, but when you are only making 7.84 an hour, working in miserable weather conditions, working around props that can mangle or kill you, and etc. I don't see how us ramp rats can take a pay freeze. It's pretty damn shitty that the pilots won't take a pay cut. Yeah it's true without them then there would be no airline, but hell without us they wouldn't be able to get off the ground. Im sick of the hell we have to put up with because of them. Sorry, but just my POV.
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7LBAC111
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:38 am

John asked:
Let me give you this scenario to ponder: If your boss told you I'm sorry, but you have to take a $7.00 per hour pay cut, what would YOUR reaction be?

To be honest my reaction would be take the pay cut, cut back on a few little luxuries and start looking for another job. Our love of aviation is one thing, but I 'choose' not to work directly in aviation any more because wages are comparitively low. There are many other industries where airline employees can work - travel, call centres etc.

Sorry - I am a big fan of US Airways, we do a lot of business with one of my clients (BMS Pharmaceuticals) in and around PHL (Princeton) so believe it or not I DO NOT want them to fail.

7LBAC111
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1rocco
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:40 am

I like most other people would hate to see another airliner go under but it is absolutely stupid to not read the writing on the wall. Freshlove I admire your loyalty to your company but you are in such deep denial. I am a furloughed fa from one of the other legacy carriers and I know what it´s like to lose something that you deeply love and my only hope for returning to work is the chance one or two airlines go under. I know that it sound very selfish but that is how it goes. I am sure that other airlines will have to hire to fill the void so my suggestion to you is get your resume up to date. IF or when we do lose a few legacy airlines just remember all things happen for a reason so be prepared.

Peace
 
brons2
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:41 am

A question for those people on this forum who would like nothing better than to see US Airways FAIL and thousands of people unemployed, I ask you, WHAT do YOU do for a living?

No, I don't want to see you lose your job. I'd rather see you working for WN, B6 or FL when they take over those markets.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
freshlove1
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:45 am

There is no denial here, we understand what is happening. We see it on a daily basis. S12PPL I would certainly think you see the whole picture, don't you, afterall you are an employee right?? and you know what happens on a daily basis right?.....Exactly, just another opinion from one of those arm chair airline CEO's claiming to know the whole story at US. But your right US is heading toward another Chapt.11, afterall we have not posted a profit in how long, oh that's right last quarter..34 mil worth. The only way US goes back into Chapt.11 is if there are no more concessions that are agreed on and then it will be basically forced on the employees. Last time I looked DL and UA were in bigger trouble then US is right now, how about we see some posts on that from these arm chair CEO's to hear what will happen to them.
 
TWFirst
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:56 am

Freshlove1:

One profitable quarter after numerous unprofitable quarters doesn't mean a company has a viable business plan or cost structure. Certainly you must realize that.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
freshlove1
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:08 am

I completely understand that, but if what we did was not correct we would have lost money again, so hopefully we can build on this and keep it going with some minor improvements along the way so we stay in the black for the foreseeable future
 
ultrapig
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:15 am

There are too many planes flying-American tried to raise fares a measly $5 and it had to withdraw-The law of supply and demand is keeping the price of tickets blow the cost of moving passengers-at least of legacy carriers-. Unless there is less capapcity all will continue to lose money and all will need to reduce costs. If there are fewer airliens prices will go up and they will have the ability to pay their employees -that is unless other entrants come into the market.

The WSJ hjad an article this week-the LLC's have younger employeees who are cheaper to pay and insure-they generally amkes les money-their planes are generally less expensive to operate and the "apyments" are less and they cost less to maintain

This is economics 101? If you are working for US you need to either move your union to take drastics cuts or learn how to run a slurpee machine!
 
coa764
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:16 am

Let's face it, there are some people here that have a HARD ON for US Airways and I have grown tired of all the cynicism. There are currently 2 other "legacy" carriers in financial dire straits right now, so why just POINT the finger specifically at US Airways? Let me give you this scenario to ponder: If your boss told you I'm sorry, but you have to take a $7.00 per hour pay cut, what would YOUR reaction be?

A seven dollar pay cut vs being permanently unemployed? I would probably take the pay cut. This isn't like being furloughed, US liquidates and you are out with nothing. You also asked how the advanced bookings can be so good and the airplanes full yet the company is losing money, well you need to look at your RASM vs the average cost per ticket. Basically if your filling the aircraft with cheap fairs your loosing money. I tell you one thing, if ALPA is the one making the claim and not the company you might think about those pay-cuts or start dusting off your resume.
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A330323X
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:24 am

Nobody WANTS to see US fail - get a grip.

Let's face it, there are some people here that have a HARD ON for US Airways and I have grown tired of all the cynicism.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

There's a reason this thread has 38 replies in 8 hours, when my thread on US making a $34M profit had a whopping 16 replies total.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
elwood64151
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:27 am

But that's the free market system and George W is telling us that new jobs are being created all the time - at McDonald's

I can't help but point out that your nation's fearless leaders have been leading a sinking ship since 1996. Growth and unemployment rates Germany has been seeing over the last 8 years would be called a DEPRESSION in this coutry.

USAirways is one company. There are jobs being created all the time in the United States, and no, not all of them are at McDonald's. You've been taken in by the hype.

Try reading up on what's really going on: Manufacturing was the area with the largest increase in jobs last month, and even though they came in below expectations, it was still net-plus jobs last month. And who the Hell thought that in JULY we'd add 275,000 jobs?!?! The summer has always been historically weak in job creation!

John,

I don't think anyone wants US to fail and put thousands of people out of work.

My biggest worry, is that the employees of US will do to themselves what the workers of Eastern did. That would be a shame.

dtwclipper


Got news for you: In both cases, the employees are not the only ones to blame. Eastern's employees were far more responsible for the death of that airline than USAirways' employees will be to the death of their own airline. After two rounds of pay cuts since 9/11, the airline is still operating inefficiently. They have too much duplication, too much waste, and the managers can't seem to figure out that labor is only one part of the whole equation.

If the airline goes down now, it's no longer the employee's fault. It's management.

And I'm about as anti-union as they get, ya'll.

TWFirst:

Excellent point. Just because someone made money this quarter (that's an operational profit) doesn't mean the company is going to make money. Vanguard made an operational profit in many of the quarters it operated toward the end. But that didn't stop it from going under when the debts ran too high.

On the other hand, past performance is not necessarily an indication of future performance. It's the best indicator, but it's not perfect.



The rats have been jumping ship for awhile. When the President exited back in May (April? June? something like that), I predicted USAirways had a year left to it. Looks like I may be proven right.

We'll see what happens.

[Edited 2004-08-13 20:29:17]
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Flaps
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RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:28 am

It isnt that simple. If you havent been through restructurings, bankruptcies, pay cuts, and constant management threats then you are not in a position to either criticize or condemn those airline employees that are or have been. There was a point made in PilotNtrng's post that says a lot. Each person has their own breaking point and the same can be said for employee groups as well.

US has been horribly mismanaged for nearly two decades. This is an airline that had a virtual lock on the most lucrative markets in the country and still manged to fritter it away. It is true that there have been employee issues and in some cases they were being ridiculously overpaid. That is the fault of MANAGEMENT, not the employees. Those inequities have already been addressed through previous rounds of cost cutting. What hasnt changed is the serious lack of vision and poor strategic planning in the executive suite. You can cut employee costs all you want but you cant cant avoid the "law of diminishing returns". Each round of cuts yields less true savings than the one prior while generating greater distrust, decreasing employee morale, and less and less faith in the management team. Not a winning combination.

Love of airplanes and airlines only goes so far. This industry is becoming more and more "McDonaldized" which each passing quarter. As wages and working conditions continue to decrease we all begin to realize there other more lucrative and secure ways to make a living that also offer better working conditions. While no one wants to give up the hard earned benefits that years of service with one employer can provide, there comes a time when its worth putting it all on the line. This is especially so when there is a real possibility that the company is going to fail no mater what you give up. Better to keep what you can while you can as you look for other opportunites.

I was in big airline mangement for 16 years and know first hand how difficult these things can be on everyone. I just thank my lucky stars that when my time came my company was still strong enough that they were willing to pay us high timers very handsomely to take buyouts and early retirements rather than slowly bleed us to death under the worn heel of a tired old boot or the stilletto heels of some hot shot business school grads that dont know jack about the industry.

I wish all the best to all of the US employees. I employed many of them over the years and the vast majority were dedicated, hard working individuals that deserve a better fate than that they have been dealt.
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:28 am

Jeez - then things really are bad with US, on top of the cutting those 20 routes at PIT earlier,

What I don;t understand is why US employees are doing so much to limit the options for their company. Whats better - a pay cut/pay freeze or no job...erm duh!

Mark

Mark the employees from pilots to CSR have been giving for the last 8 quarters. They have less than average health and flt. benefits, and every time they are told this is our last leg the company finds an additional 50 million in some type of account they overlooked. Like anyone else they are fed up. They also have every right to be, if they could take a pay cut and it go directly to what was needed they would these funds go into accts. and is almost never seen. I support all of the backbone of US air the workers, if it
is truly in dire need of cash I dont think the pay cuts they are proposing will be enough anyway.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
kith
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:26 pm

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:35 am

I will mourn the day Usairways stops clying, as they are our airports only carrier. Yet, if the "top brass" all took $1/yr would it save the company? No, no it wouldn't sure there easy to blame just as the 300k/yr pilot is for the companys problems but thats not the cause. I believe Frank Lorenzo once said "You can't save your way to profitability." Whoever said it, well said, US needs a major route change and to start flying many more long distance routes to offset the costs of all the short mainline routes. Look at a US route map, there is very very little out west, and they dont fly to Asia/Hawaii/many places in Europe, I hope US survives but I doubt they will, with some of the employees/managments "us" vs "them" attitudes. -Matt in KITH
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:36 am

There are too many planes flying-American tried to raise fares a measly $5 and it had to withdraw-The law of supply and demand is keeping the price of tickets blow the cost of moving passengers-at least of legacy carriers-. Unless there is less capapcity all will continue to lose money and all will need to reduce costs. If there are fewer airliens prices will go up and they will have the ability to pay their employees -that is unless other entrants come into the market.

The WSJ hjad an article this week-the LLC's have younger employeees who are cheaper to pay and insure-they generally amkes les money-their planes are generally less expensive to operate and the "apyments" are less and they cost less to maintain

This is economics 101? If you are working for US you need to either move your union to take drastics cuts or learn how to run a slurpee machine!


Actually, it's Management 320, and more capacity may be exactly what US needs. As I've discussed before, using what you have to the maximum extent possible allows you to extend your fixed costs over more flights while simultaneously allowing you to drop the fares yet increasing yeild.

Cutting capacity is actually a Catch-22 if you can't sell or return the aircraft, gates, and everything else...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
IslandHopperCO
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:09 pm

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:49 am

Much as I hate unions, I agree with US employees that their wages are low enough already.

Nobody here (or in the company for that matter) has addressed the REAL problem at USAirways: Labor rules. According to a US employee in another thread awhile back, union work rules require twice as many people to turn a US 737 at the gate than a SWA 737. TWICE the labor costs! No wonder they're a sinking ship.

Time to bite the bullet and start laying off, and making modern labor laws. Better that some lose their jobs than all.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:52 am

It will be another sad day "if" US goes under (dont think that will happen). I do think is part MGMNT looking to get blood from a turnip. How much more can the wonderful employees of US give? They have given and given. Yet we get the 15-25 year olds on here saying "give more give more you want a job don't you"..but most of them are living at home and not having to pay for housepayments/rent, insurances, electricity etc. At the age of 20 years old I would have said the same thing, but I was young dumb and not on my own.

AirTran, SHAME ON YOU for saying you want them to go! In this economy to have THOUSANDS loose their job is dreadful! Your statement about too many carriers is true, and the LCC's are the cancer of the industry! UA, US, DL are fighting day by day to survive (like all the legacy carriers) to only be beaten down more from LCC's like your carrier.

For those of us old farts on here, the "good ol days' of this industry is gone for ever thanks to Southwest, AirTran, America West, Frontier and now Independence air.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
ultrapig
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:54 am

Elwood-Good point-I agree that US recent moves could be making things worse FOR IT. If it had the ability to expand and become the big dog that mgiht be better but it doesn't. A magician couldn't make this work-

By the way how is Jake doing?
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:32 am

I for one stopped predicting US Airways' demise a while ago. That was last summer, a few months after they came out of bankruptcy. The banks should have pulled the plug right then, when it was clear that Siegel and Bronner's cost-reduction plan was far from sufficient. But the banks don't; maybe too many people on Wall Street have lots of US FF miles, I don't know.

US Airways is a failed conglomeration of regulation-era regionals that doesn't work as a network carrier because leadership--management and unions--didn't turn it into one rationalized airline during the '90s when they had the financial room to do so. Despite mismanagement, employees did at least turn it into a good product. The employees deserve the credit for making the airline a pleasure to fly, whenever one could actually afford the fares.

Now it's gone too far. When an airline's management is putting the employees through the concession wringer for the third time in such a short period, it's time to wipe the slate and start over. As several have noted, other airlines--with better cost and fleet structures--will fill in whatever the market needs And provide jobs.

But US Airways, like one of George Romero's zombies in "Night of the Living Dead," just keeps going--even though it makes no sense whatever for the financial institutions to pour another dime into it. I'd rather see US Airways' employees working for a financially sound airline where they don't need to have arguments on chat boards about the possibility of their airline's survival.

The banks will prop up US Airways until they have to sell their paneled offices in Manhattan to find more money. The rationalization of the structure of air travel in the East Coast will be put off that much longer.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: US Airways Could Be Bankrupt In A Few Weeks

Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:54 am

Before anyone replies, yes, I know that Dr. Bronner and RSA in Alabama are the primary investors and have deciding control. But he obviously has a fiduciary responsibility to the state gov't retirees of Alabama and is not isolated from the larger financial and investment industry, which is why I referred to Manhattan.

So maybe Dr. Bronner will at some point, unless he pulls the plug, need to sell *his* offices in Montgomery (paneled or not, I don't know) in order to keep US Airways going.  Smile

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)