teahan
Posts: 4989
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:23 pm

Since we haven’t had one of these for a while.

Firm Orders:

Air France - 10
Emirates - 41 passenger, 2 freighters
Federal Express - 10 freighters
ILFC - 5 passenger and 5 freighters (two pax aircraft are bound for Emirates)
Korean - 5
Lufthansa - 15
Malaysian - 6
Qantas - 12
Qatar - 2
Singapore Airlines - 10
Virgin Atlantic - 6

MOUs:

Etihad - 4

Unconfirmed Orders:

Thai - 6
A significant unannounced Asian customer - ?

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:28 pm

Is that all for on orders with A380 now? What airlines will result for next annoucement on their new A380?
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:02 pm

Now tell me...What the heck is Emirates going to do with 41 all pax versions of
this Goliath?
Forty one planes can haul a lot of people. Note the route structure of Emirates vs the other carriers...Qantas, Lufthansa, Air France. Wouldn't you figure a much larger carrier would purchase 41 planes vs a smaller airline like Emirates?
Do I think different then the rest of you or do you ask the same question?

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:20 pm

139 orders down, 112 to go to profitability.

Emirates is planning a huge expansion, but 41 is a bit much. Expect to see A380 DXB-BAH Big grin.

Other possible orders:
CX
JL
NH
CA
CI
SA
GF
LY (rather unlikely, although probaly considering, they really should have it on TLV-JFK)
Anyone else?
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:48 pm

I'm with you "Safe," at least EK won't have look far to find deserts to park their grounded big birds.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:01 pm

the A380 would be certainly of use for JL, NH, and LY, but there is some risk that political pressure will prevent those airlines from buying what they want.

if there only was free trade...





[Edited 2004-08-14 16:03:29]
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:20 pm

Other possible orders:
CX


possible but not in near future... CX now prefers to expand its fleet by ordering A330 and B777 and by acquiring used B744....
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:29 pm

I'm with you "Safe," at least EK won't have look far to find deserts to park their grounded big birds.


Another idiot comment from someone who thinks that all airlines are bankrupt and contracting.

Guess what? Clue one: EK is profitable and expanding rapidly. Clue number two: their planes are flying with good loads. Clue three: the 'free fuel' bull is exactly that, bull.

40 A380s translates to ten longhaul routes covered at four aircraft each. Hardly a profile of a US legacy carrier with a lossmaking global and domestic network is it?

If anything their fleet plans and route development looks more like SQ (who aren't losing money either) with capacity for their biggest routes and flexibility for others.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:57 pm

What longhaul route currently flown by any airline worldwide requires coverage by 4 A380 size aircraft on a daily basis?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:33 am

First, with regards to Emirates, these A380s could be used to allow them to become bigger players on the Europe (specifically UK) to Australia market. One flight in each direction would require something like 4 aircraft. A few flights from SYD, one from MEL, maybe others but I don't know if the other major cities would have passenger loads to justify an A380...anyway up to LHR, CDG, or FRA. This would account for a bit. I also understand that Emirates is getting significant amount of Europe - India travel, not to mention likely US - Europe travel as they increase traffic. Yes, some of these routes may be slow to develop, but if they have spaced out their delivery schedule, they could develop routes in time for new arrivals. Plus, no one says that they need to put 550 some seats on board. They could easily increase the number of business class seats to appeal to business travelers. The main thing that is shaping my opinion is that I can remember when people thought SQ was nuts for buying a ton of 744s many years ago given that they were such a small country (yes, I know that Singapore has about 4-5 million people in contrast to Dubai's nearly 1 million), yet SQ turned out quite well. Then again, Emirates could be over their head too, and the routes may not develop in time. There is always a lot of predictions and speculation on what the market will be like, and trying to be the first to meet what happens.

Enough of that. My other question regards the whole 250 or so mark that Airbus states is the break-even point for the A380. In order to break even, they must make enough profits to make up for about US$12 billion in R & D costs and the costs of making the facilities (I'll go with the common US$12 billion figure). However, at 250 aircraft, that is US$48 million per aircraft. That seems like a bit, especially when you consider how many launch orders are sold with such substantial discounts. This means that later aircraft need to make higher profits in order for 250 to be the break even point. Sorry, I don't mean to be criticizing Airbus or the A380, but the topic was about this aircraft. I feel the same way about the 7E7. Who knows how low of rates ANA is paying. Also, has anyone seen Boeing's estimate of the breakeven point for the 7E7? Thanks.
 
VSGirl
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:18 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:45 am

I am surprised British Airways have not ordered the A380. I wonder if they will do the whole waiting thing like they did with the A320. I mean they operated a few after taking over a British Caledonian order but it was years before they ordered any themselves.

When the first B741 was released how many orders did Boeing get? From what I remember reading a while ago, it was not that many... Sometimes it can take airlines a while to catch onto a good thing, for example the Boeing 757. For quite a few years the Boeing 757 was seen as the poor sister to the B767 and now look at her!

Anyways just my opinion (not making this into B vs A)

Kimb.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:12 am

I keep observing in these threads how airlines, particularly EK, are expanding based on the SQ model. This seems to me to beg the question: why hasn't SQ, the creator of the paradigm which already has a fully developed route system, ordered 43 A380s?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:25 am

Leelaw,
Good question.  Smile
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:30 am

Now tell me...What the heck is Emirates going to do with 41 all pax versions of this Goliath?
There was a great image of a model of DXB with what seemed to be an A380 terminal. Big grin

What longhaul route currently flown by any airline worldwide requires coverage by 4 A380 size aircraft on a daily basis?
QF LAX/LHR-SYD and SA LHR-CPT/JNB.

I am surprised British Airways have not ordered the A380.
I am not surprised at all. If they order it - and as many will tell you, that is a big if - it will not happen for a few years. My guess is that many loyal Asian 744 customers as well as BA will strongly push the 744 Advanced.

When the first B741 was released how many orders did Boeing get?
I believe that Pan Am was the launch customer with 25 orders. That was the largest launch order to date, until the ANA order of 50 7E7s.

why hasn't SQ, the creator of the paradigm which already has a fully developed route system, ordered 43 A380s?
I see no reason was to why they should. 10 A380s will be pretty good for their route system.

 Smile
-Will

EDIT: Fix the JNB airport code.

[Edited 2004-08-14 18:32:09]
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:37 am

Maybe that's why QF sensibly ordered 12 aircraft.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
kim777fan
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:21 am

Welcome back from temporary exile Scotty!!  Smile

AFAIK, the order count stands at 129 according to latest Airliner World unless there was a new order announced at Farnborugh.

Hard to believe a little country like the UAE has an airline that has ordered 41 (!!!) of these behemoths. Can't believe there's THAT much O&D to/from Dubai.

What does THAT tell you about the importance of oil in today's marketplace??

 Nuts
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Leelaw

Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:16 am

Leelaw: why hasn't SQ, the creator of the paradigm which already has a fully developed route system, ordered 43 A380s?

Because they´ve got a comparatively lousy hub location? Australia isn´t that great a location for covering anything else than traffic from and to Australia and New Zealand.

EK is in an excellent hub position: Between Europe, Africa and Asia, with America on the other side and still good access to Australia - it could hardly be any better if they tried!
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:39 am

Once again, for those who don't read or don't understand EKs development plans. (has been discussed at leasrt 10000 times....)
As Klaus said, they have a very interesting geographic position.
In addition to that , EK belongs to the royal family (but is profitable and not subsidized) and EK is a key player in the after oil planning strategy.
The vision of the royal family is to transform Dubai into both a kind of Singapore and an holiday resort.
You can see all the banks installed in DXB, the free zones, the internet village, etc...
You can see all the new and fabulous hotels, such as the Burj al Arab.
And the construction of the palm tree island is well advanced.
So, DXB is your next destinqtion for your business and your next holidays. (at least, it is the strategy)
And if you are still not convinced, they create events for you: Dubai shopping festival, summer festival, golf , tennis or rugby turnaments, ...
So, if everything works as per plans, the 41 planes will be very profitable. (10 to 15 could probably be full today !!!)
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
maddy
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:45 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:06 am

DXB is just a HUB for EK and they TRY to attract the people to stay in Dubai with special stopover programs.

I believe that they can fill their A380´s by flying in the Europe-Africa-Australia-Asia circle and feeding them at DXB. When you look at today´s route map there is still room for growth.
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:16 am

BA are not ordering anything right now, no cash, a young-ish fleet.
T5 and a better business environment may well change that, but not before T5 is established.

SAA will probably be next when you see the amount of 744s (with A340-200/600s too) at LHR daily, with all the slot restrictions.

Why do I think that if Boeing had built B747-500/600 an more to the point for EK, a -700, and EK had ordered a load of these, there would not be all this stuff about how they don't know what they are doing, it would be 'way to go EK' with positive comparisons against other, less friendly Arab states.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:19 am

Now that we had fun with Emirates 41 big boys, where do you park, say 10 at one time during the "hubbing hour" and where do you put all that luggage from said fleet parking within say 20 minutes? .....Not to say where do you put 5000 people getting off 10 planes and 5000 getting on?
And WHITEHATTER...no one discussed bankruptcy. We know Emirates has a few bucks or they would not have made this investment so calm down will ya? There are a few of us out here in cyberspace with common sense and even a brain.
keep smilin....And thank you LEELAW...nuff said and nicely too.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:31 am

With the current congestion at LHR I see BA ordering/leasing the A380, just like a lot of airlines operating to LHR will use their A380 for LHR flights. These airlines can't expand more at LHR, hence the A380. In BA's case, I think it has not much to do with competition that they must operate the A380, because of other airlines using it to LHR, but it has more to do with the congestion and no room for more expansion from LHR. BA will eventually need an aircraft the size of the A380 to overcome the congestion at LHR.

As for EK, I don't know much about their market, but what the others have said, makes sense. DXB is on its way to become a major (transfer) city between Europe and Asia (and maybe even Africa). Their geographical position is very good, so who knows what we can see in the future at DXB. What does surprise me is that more airlines from the United Arab Emirates are expanding rapidly, Etihad Airlines being the latest example. I do not know if all these airlines will be able to operate with full loads with such big aircraft fleets. But as I said, I do not know much about their market or future predictions.

Regarding Japan, I still don't know whether JL and/or NH will order the A380. The U.S. has a lot of influence in Japan. On the other hand Airbus is increasing its presence in Japan by working more closely with Japanese companies. China is also a country that may be able to fill a A380 sized aircraft if the growth predictions regarding the Chinese market will become a reality. So we must keep an eye on Japan and China as well.

A388
 
squirrel83
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:28 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:39 am

Hmm if you would like updated Numbers here is the link to Airbus Deliveries and ORders List ~ Need Microsoft Excel to veiw. . Its updated monthly . . it states 129 orders for the A380.

http://www.airbus.com/media/orders_n_deliveries.asp
http://www.airbus.com/doc/media/ordersndeliveries/orders_n_deliveries.xls
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:11 am

The 380 is still severely restricted with the number of airports it can fly into or get out of. Any expansion by EK will have to be at 380 compatable airports plus a suitable diversionary airport. This is one of the reasons why airlines will still be interested in the 747advanced. There is a different economic climate now than when the 747 was introduced. Airport owners are more than ever asking "Who is going to pay?", so I think development at airports to accommodate the 380 will be slow. (I have been told that the 707 actually required more airport upgrade than the 747 did.)

Even in Australia, with Qantas ordering 12, some of the airports that will be used as diversions run the risk of FB ingestion, because they are not wide enough for the outer engines. They are safe, but could cause a lot of disruption and expense. I know that other airlines are saying they don't want to cop higher fees to cover 380 operations. If the whole cost is borne by the 380 operators then it will mitigate against some of the 15% of advantage which is left after weight increases are taken into account.

This is why EK's expansion plans worry me!

Ruscoe
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:16 am

The 380 is still severely restricted with the number of airports it can fly into or get out of.


The A380 can get into and out of any airport that can handle a 747. It fits into the 80m box which airports use to make allowances for large aircraft.

This has been discussed to death. The whole A380 concept was that it would not require major taxiway or runway construction. The only real issue is with terminal design and speed of loading/unloading where jetways are used.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:36 am

Now that we had fun with Emirates 41 big boys, where do you park, say 10 at one time during the "hubbing hour" and where do you put all that luggage from said fleet parking within say 20 minutes? .....Not to say where do you put 5000 people getting off 10 planes and 5000 getting on?
I believe that there is a new terminal being built that will be handling almost exclusively A380s. I would try to find a link of a model that was made of it (by the design company, not a hobbyist) but I cannot.

The A380 can get into and out of any airport that can handle a 747. It fits into the 80m box which airports use to make allowances for large aircraft.

This has been discussed to death. The whole A380 concept was that it would not require major taxiway or runway construction. The only real issue is with terminal design and speed of loading/unloading where jetways are used.

Yet so many airports are having problems.  Wink/being sarcastic

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:57 am

Whether it has been discussed to death or not the 380 can not routinely operate into many if not most 747 compatable airports because of the runway and taxi-way width, bridge and culvert weight restrictions, turning radius problems,height problems under pedestrian bridges,tarmac subgrade strength, and so on and so on. It has nothing to do with the 80m box.

If it can routinely use 747 compatable airports why are airports like Heathrow, LA, Sydney (750 million),( Brisbane probably needs to spend 250 million, just to make it a viable alternate), spending the money for 380. What about all the lesser 747 airports if these major hubs have to spend money like this. All this limits EK's ability to expand beyond major hubs. The cost will eventually be added onto the cost of buying a 380 ticket. There is growing unrest at public money being used so airlines and manufacturers can make higher profits. This will increasingly be a purely commercial decision, and QANTAS and EK and other 380 operators and their customers are eventually going to have to pay.



Ruscoe
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:25 am

If it can routinely use 747 compatable airports why are airports like Heathrow, LA, Sydney (750 million),( Brisbane probably needs to spend 250 million, just to make it a viable alternate), spending the money for 380.

On terminal rebuilding.

Please keep up. The A380 can use the same runways as a 773, and remote stands aren't a problem as the lip loading height is roughly the same. The only problem is going to be where airports want to use jetways but keep the overall loading times down.

The rest is absolute bollocks, as I've tried to explain to you about the 80m box. If a 747 fits in, an A380 can.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:54 am

The A380 initial goal is the congested/major hub airports around the world. These airports are investing in their airport stuctures to accomodate the A380. They will not all be ready in time to handle the A380 but they are working on it. As soon as the A380 proves itself and more are sold, the airports will invest in their structure to accomomdate it. It all comes down to making money. I agree that we live in a different time, when compared to the days when the 747 was introduced, but over time the A380 will be a common sight around the world, just like the 747 is at the moment. As VSGirl already stated: "Sometimes it can take airlines a while to catch onto a good thing".

Whether the A380 will be a big success or not, we can only speculate for now. Time will tell us how succesful the A380 or any similar sized aircraft will be. However, I do believe these very large aircraft are the next step in commercial aviation just like the 747 was in its time.

A388
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:27 am

139 orders down, 112 to go to profitability

It's not at all that simple. It's 112 orders to go for profability at LIST PRICE. Airbus has sold most, if not all A380s at heavily reduced prices. I've heard several estimations that it will have to be between 350-500 frames before turning profit.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:32 am

Airbus has sold most, if not all A380s at heavily reduced prices.

Evidence?
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:44 am

Ok WHITEHATTER..Check this out. You stated some talk about an 80m box.
You stated if you can fit a 747 in that box, an 380 can fit also. Right?
NOW........
Would you say that at a terminal, say at Ohare's M building(international)
if you can park 10 747-400's side by side there, you can also replace them in the same area with A380's?
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
wdleiser
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:32 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:47 am

Emirates is government owened, they pretty much have as much money as they want to spend.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:47 am

Emirates is government owened, they pretty much have as much money as they want to spend.

Yeah.. no it dosn't work like that. Many companies are governement owned, take Telstra in Australia. Its 51% government owned and it has to survive through its own resources. Emirates would be much the same, but the government might treat it differently to a private organisation.

Airbus has sold most, if not all A380s at heavily reduced prices.

Evidence?


No evidence only rumors spread in the media. Qantas are RUMORED to be paying 180-200Million per copy.
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:55 am

Whitehatter,

Please catch up. The 380 can use the same airport that a 777 can in terms of weight bearing per tyre, but not total weight on infrastructure. Also the 777 has 2 engines and so does not have to worry about FB ingestion. Those two outer engines on the 380 are a problem.

Ruscoe
 
AZA330
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:20 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:39 pm

I would like to see BA flying the A380 on routes like London-New York where the only thing to do to increase the number of passengers is to have bigger airplanes.

I also would like to see Alitalia with an A380...but I think they don't have enough passenger or freight to carry for using an A380....
Ciao
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:52 pm

Whitehatter, sorry to dissaspoint you but EK is subsidized up to the neck. That's why they unlike everyone else are not contracting. At least the oil should hold out long enough to get a few years of service out of the A380.

EK will most likely use the aircraft to compete on their Europe-Asia and Europe-Australia/New Zealand markets I would guess. Hopefully they'll be a bit roomier for the PAX than the cattle cars EK is currently using...

-WGW2707
 
maddy
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:45 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:30 pm

This is how it will look like in Dubai!

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/dubai/dubai1.html
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5006
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:05 pm

Maddy:

That pic of DBX is georgeus, and I think Dubai will a MAJOR hub for flights to Americas and Asia with all longhoul a/c  Big thumbs up

*my €500.000*

Micke//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:08 pm

I've learned an important lesson from this thread. I've actually flown to Dubai on EK four times since 1998 for business and to sport fish in the Persian Gulf; the last time in January of this year. With each trip I've been impressed with the airline and the rate of development in Dubai. Somehow, I missed the fact that Dubai is now a cultural and commercial crossroads on par with New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Sydney, Hong Kong, Singapore, or even Las Vegas. Apparently, all it takes to achieve "world class status" is to order 43 A380s, build a large airport, a few upscale tourist amenities, and a large percentage of the high-yield passengers traveling from east to west and back on the planet will be compelled to travel to your city or pass through your hub airport.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:47 pm

WGW2707
Pls, read this and tell me where the subsidies are
http://www.ekgroup.com/ANREP2004/index_pdf.html
EK has received one time payment for the startup. Now, they only can count on their profits. THeir only advantage is to benefit of the coordination between airport and city infrastructure and events development. Just go once per year to Dubai, and you will be amazed by the changes in the city.
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:01 pm

NWA742,

It's 112 orders to go for profability at LIST PRICE.

First time I ever hear this. None of the times Airbus have mentioned the 250 order thing do I remember them saying this was based on list prices. So how do you come to that conclusion?

Airbus has sold most, if not all A380s at heavily reduced prices.

All planes are sold at discounts. Not a single airline is crazy enough to buy planes at list price. That goes for both Airbus and Boeing. And launch customers routinely get steeper discounts.
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:33 pm

Airbus has sold most, if not all A380s at heavily reduced prices.

Evidence?

I do not think that a single commercial aircraft has ever been bought at list price.

First time I ever hear this. None of the times Airbus have mentioned the 250 order thing do I remember them saying this was based on list prices. So how do you come to that conclusion?
I can see it now, "Well folks, we have to see 250 frames, but we are going to let you in on a little secret: No one actually pays full-price for a plane, so it is actually going to be a little bit over 250 frames, but ssh! Do not tell anyone that as our selling rate might not look that good."  Laugh out loud
Before you start on a rant about Airbus, understand that not selling at full-price happens to Boeing.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:43 pm

Boy oh boy, I just cant see it. Just because the hometown carrier has 41 mega-jets and nice state-of-the-art airport, that does not put Dubai on my favorite place to visit list. There are few other places on the planet that I would list in my top 10 or 20 or 50 for that matter.
Would I use Emirates from point A to B changing planes at Dubai? No, I feel the middle east is too volatile and prefer not to travel there. You may feel the opposite and that's your right. Each to his own.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
flyingdoctorwu
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:42 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:18 am

Emirates Current Fleet Size:


B777-300 3 Class 16+42+320=378 x 12= 4536
B777-200 3 Class 16+49+236=301 x 5 = 1505
2 Class 49+304=353 x 4 = 1412
A340-500 3 Class 12+42+204=258 x 5 = 1290
A340-300 3 Class 12+42+213=267 x 5 = 1335
A330-200 12+42+183=237 x 29= 6873
Total Seat Capacity = 16951

On Order
A380-800 x 43 x 550 seats = 23650
B777-300ER x 30 x 378 = 11340
A340-500 x 5 x 258 = 1290
A340-600HGW x 20 x 372 (typica) = 7440
Total Seat Capacity on Order = 43720

Total Seat Capacity once orders fulfilled= 60651

The seating capcity for aircraft on order (A380/A340 ) are assumming typical three class configuration- everyone knows that Emirates tends to err to the higher end of capacity on their jets (see A340 2-3-2 J class, 777 3-4-3 Y class) but I dont know what emirates aircraft downsizing plans are (other than phasing out the A310) but by the time all of their aircraft on order come through they will have almost tripled their seat capacity- ambitious. The A380 order itself more than doubles the seat capacity

I hope Emirates succeeds but there plans are ambitious. That's a lot of seat capacity!

Chris
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:36 am

Thanx for the nice calculation Dr. Wu, it's very illustrative. In past threads, the EK "True Believers" and A380 "chauvinists" have explained to the more skeptical among us that all or part of the current fleet will be replaced as the higher capacity aircraft are delivered. Nobody has yet ventured to say what EK's ultimate fleet size and capacity will be, perhaps your clear and concise table will spark some speculations?
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kim777fan
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:34 am

Emirates has more than 10 times the capacity of Air New Zealand and I would rather visit New Zealand 10 times as much as I would Dubai.

I know that New Zealand is in a rather remote area somewhat set off from the rest of the world, but some things just will never seem right no matter how much they are rationalized.
 
wgw2707
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:37 am

RE: A380 Order Count

Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:46 am

Kim777, the directors of Emirates agree with you. That's why they use DXB primarily as a connecting hub, and serve New Zealand from that hub, and from Australia. The key strategy of EK is to develop DXB as a sort of connecting hub with feed to Europe, Australasia and elsewhere.

They would be a logical A380 customer under any set of circumstances given their overall strategy, but they in all probability do not need 45 of the giants.

-WGW2707
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

EK

Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:52 pm

Just because some from a notoriously insular and not well travelled (or informed) population would not want to visit Dubai, does not mean that a lot of people don't.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Order Count

Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:06 pm

GDB:

I'm from the U.S., I don't know if I'm "insular" (I think it's ironic that someone who lives on an island himself accuses others of being "insular"), I'm very well traveled, and reasonably well informed. In fact, I've traveled to Dubai four times in recent years on EK and really enjoyed myself. However, I'm skeptical that Dubai will ever become another desert oasis resort on steroids (like say Las Vegas) to which "western," "far eastern," or any other tourists will flock in large enough numbers to justify having a megahub airport filled to the brim with megaplanes. I've come to this conclusion for some fundamentally sound reasons: NO GAMBLING; NO BOOZE; NO NAKED WOMEN!
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