pouyazad
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MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:49 pm

Hi,
I read in the news that Iran's Economy Council has approved purchasing 22 MD-90s for Iranian airlines. Does anybody know where are these aircrafts coming from? And do you think it is a right decision?
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:25 pm

Because of the stupid embargo imposed by the US to Iran, It sounds strange that Iran could buy some Md-90...

Iran Air is trying for many years now to find an agreement with Airbus to renew its fleet, but because of the American components of the planes, especially in the engines, the contract failed to be signed many times.
 
amirs
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:38 pm

Stupid Embargo?
You obviously have no understanding of world affairs and politics.
I as an Israeli have a hard time excepting the Arab Embargo on Israel, but you wont find me calling it "stupid".
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:50 pm

I confirm : "this STUPID and RIDICULOUS U.S embargo over Iran".
This embargo is stupid, useless, unjustified, unavailing, and hypocrite.

But as you are living in the 51st state of the U.S.A, I don't expect you to agree my point of vue...

Anyway, this is out of topic.

Considering the situation, it sounds impossible to me that Iran decides to buy any new Boeing airplanes at the moment.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:55 pm

But as you are living in the 51st state of the U.S.A, I don't expect you to agree my point of vue...
No one's country who has replied so far would make a good "51st State". If you are going to try be stupid, at least make it funny.  Insane

Back to the topic of MD-90s, where Iran Air would be getting them from would depend on who currently has them. There are many MD-90s in Asia as well as with DL, but I have not heard anything about some MD-90s leaving a fleet.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
leelaw
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:02 pm

The aircraft wouldn't be new build because the MD90 is out of production. The only single source of twenty aircraft would be Saudi Arabian Airlines which has 27 in their fleet. The other major operators of this type have fewer than 20 planes. Haven't heard confirmation that DL or JL is dropping the type. Not sure what the source of 22 aircraft would be.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:12 pm

Pouyazad,

Didn't Iran placed recently quite a big order of Tu-204 for Iran Air Tour and Kish Air to replace old Tu-154 ? Was the Tu-204 choosen precisely because no western built a/c were available for Iran ?
 
wedgetail737
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:54 pm

Reno Air/AA had a handful of MD-90's. Are they still in the desert? It's too bad that a trade embargo exists for Iran. They've been trying to get Boeing to do several things such as upgrade their current fleet. But politics isn't friendly, unfortunately. Perhaps that can change if we get a new president.
 
pouyazad
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:26 pm

FLYSSC,
Everyday, I hear and read about Iran's purchases but I don't know which one is really reliable and which one is not. One day, they place order for Tu-204, the other day you see they show interest in F-50 and F100 and the day after, MD-90s are in centre of focus! What is clear is these decisions are only short-time remedies for Iran's sick aviation industry. Did you hear about Iran Air's two emergency landings in one day in Athens and Rome?
And my friend, you can say "stupid embargos" but let's not forget that stupid leaders cause them. I mean both Iranian and American leaders, Poor Iranian people in between.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:35 pm

Doesn't the embargo with the "axis of evil," as the US president so eloquently puts it (sarcasm), just prevents Boeing to sell Iran the products directly. However they can still obtain it through say a European financing company through lease or purchase. Although I do realize Boeing is no longer selling the model, but just throwing that out there so next week when the plane Iran Air wants is the 737-700 we have the basis covered.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
Horus
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:39 pm

Salam Pouyazad! Khobam?

I am at a loss with the Iranian order for the Tu-204s. Two years ago, they ordered 15 Tu-204s from Sirrocco Aerospace (with RR engines) with Libya. Anyway that's why I was surprised by this recent 'order' as it probably indicates the initial order was cancelled.


Deviating slightly, I've been on Iran Air's B741s, B742s and B74SPs and I think the aircraft are in excellent shape considering they've been flying for so long. The legroom in Y class is probably best around, but unfortunately IFE is lacking. The upper deck had a surpise too (email me and I'll tell you).

Has the new airport opened yet? Even though it officially opened last year, I read there were problems which delayed the starting of flights in/out of the airport.


Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:40 pm

I agree 100% Pouyazad ! That's why I call it a "stupid and useless" embargo : Only the Iranian people is suffering from this embargo...

Does Iran Air still operate the 5 F-100 ? what about the A320, leased from "Nouvelair Tunisia" ?

PS :I plan to come to Tehran in November for a few days... I haven't been there for more than a year now  Big grin
 
pouyazad
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:24 am

Horus
The new airport is not open yet. There are some problems between the Turkish operator and Iranian authorities although Iran's minister of intelligence has announce that the Turkish operator has no security problem (in relation with Israel and other stories!).

FLYSSC
Yes F100s are still in service and a few ex-Korean are added to Iranian fleet.
I must say Ahlan va Sahlan va Marhaba bekom, if you wanna go to Iran, right?!
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:39 am

DeltaMIA,
The Embargo concerns American products and "High Technology" goods, of course, but also products that contain a certain % of "American" components. That's why Airbus (and not only Boeing) can't sell directly new airplanes to Iran.


Pouyazad,

I hope the new "Imam Khomeiny" Airport will be able to open soon, though it will be a real mess for connections if they keep the domestic traffic out of Mehrabad airport as it was originally planned...  Nuts
 
LMP737
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:35 am

Wedgetail:

The ex-Reno Air MD-90's are still sitting in the desert looking for a buyer as far as I know. Considering that the few MD-90's produced are still in airline services I don't know where anyone would be able to get 22 MD-90's.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
ba319-131
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:48 am

There are rumors of MU and CZ's M90's leaving the fleet in the not to distant future.The aim being to reduce fleet models.

MU & CZ operate 22 M90's between them.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
a300
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:22 am

Hi all,
I had initiated a post on this topic last week.
1) The MD90s are for Iran Air Tours (B9/IRB).
2) Like Pouyazad, I am confused who is buying what in Iran.
3) I am unclear how the planes are being transferred to Iran; they are under the very stupid, murderous and imperialist embargo.
3) Iran Air has 5 F100s in fleet. Iran Aseman (EP) has 10 (8 ex-KL, and 2 ex-Air Lib). One of the EP planes (EP-ASM) was on short lease to IR earlier this year.
4) F50s have been purchased by both Kish Air and Aram Air.
5) The Tu-204 purchase is confirmed. I am not sure if this planes are for IR or B9. They are with PS-90A engines. RR, under pressure from USA, will not sell their engines to Iran.
6) The Tunisian A320s were withdrawn because of the US pressure on Tunisia.
6) I have heard of the near disaster with the IR's A310-304 with emergency landings at ATH and FCO.
7) This one is for Amirs: Israel receives more US aid than Puerto Rico. PR is likely to become the 51st state at some point. El Al's biggest headache is to fly on Saturday or not. Meanwhile in Iran, we are at risk of getting killed from our own planes, Monday through Sunday. This is an intensely personal issue for me.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
A388
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:40 am

I still don't understand this embargo. If I read these posts correctly, Iran isn't allowed to operate any aircraft with U.S. manufactured components. However, I also know Iran Air operates both the A300-600R, A310-300 and A310-200, both of which are operated with U.S. build engines (General Electric). So, how come Iran is allowed to operate these aircraft while at the same time not allowed to operate any other aircraft using U.S. build components. The Airbuses Iran Air operates are also registered in Iran, so what's the story here?

Iran Air A310-300:


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Iran Air A310-200:


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Iran Air A300-600R:


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A388
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:49 am

"But as you are living in the 51st state of the U.S.A, I don't expect you to agree my point of vue...
No one's country who has replied so far would make a good "51st State". If you are going to try be stupid, at least make it funny. "

SafetyDude,

Israel maybe?? You have no clue as to the political message of this statement.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
ETStar
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:48 pm

I doubt that Saudia's fleet of MD-90s would go to Iran Air, especially since Saudi Arabia is so influenced by the USA.

Where does IR get its spare parts then for the 310s? Under the stupid embargo on Iran (which obviously does not affect the Iranian government a bit and puts a toll on the country's citizens), are there any restrictions as to whether or not another airline sells it's own aircraft to IR?

Amirs, yet again you pull off with the 'as an Israeli' rebuttal like all other Israelis. If you have no issues with the 'arab embargo' which also has no effect on your country since you are compensated for it by aid which is more than that of all African countries' combined and don't see people dying off it as a direct result, then it does not mean that others who are much worse off should remain quiet.
 
kim777fan
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:56 pm

Embargo or no embargo, it would be hard for Iran to find ANY aircraft built outside of Russia that doesn't have a significant portion of American parts.

The F-100 is probably no exception.

And regardless of where they are going, it will be sad to see the MD-90 fleet leave DL although I realize that DL just can't afford to operate just 16 of one ac type that has limited commonality to anything else in its fleet.
 
airxliban
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:22 am

FLYSSC, since when did you become from Lebanon?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
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yyz717
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:52 am

I still don't understand this embargo. If I read these posts correctly, Iran isn't allowed to operate any aircraft with U.S. manufactured components. However, I also know Iran Air operates both the A300-600R, A310-300 and A310-200, both of which are operated with U.S. build engines (General Electric).

Good question. The A300-600's were acquired new from Airbus during a brief thawing in relations with the West -- the US approved this export of the new A300 to Iran. This embargo was clamped back on soon after. The 312/313 fleet was acquired 2nd hand, and I presume there is a loophole in technology exports to Iran that permits the export of used aircraft. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the embargo could confirm this.

I also recall that Iran Air added the new F100 fleet (Dutch built, British engines) since it could be acquired without US approval. I understand this was also the basis for Iran Air interest in the RR 333 some time ago.

A related question -- did MEA choose the RR 332 to minimize US content? Ie, avoid PW/GE and possible sanctions?

That's why I call it a "stupid and useless" embargo : Only the Iranian people is suffering from this embargo...

Let's leave politics for the non-av column.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
BA
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:30 am

A related question -- did MEA choose the RR 332 to minimize US content? Ie, avoid PW/GE and possible sanctions?

There are no sanctions on Lebanon.

And they choose the RR Trent 772Bs because they perform better than the PW/GEs and to maintain some commonality with the IAE V2533-A5 turbofans on the A321 which mostly have RR parts than PW.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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yyz717
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:32 am

Thanks BA. I thought there had been partial US sanctions on MEA which precipitated a RR 332 order. Thanks for confirming the opposite.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
yak42
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:28 am

Parts based on components of Boeing or GE/PW equipment are made in China for Iranian based aircraft. I dont know why Iran is so slow to buy new Russian products. They cant be that bad.
 
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yyz717
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:36 am

I dont know why Iran is so slow to buy new Russian products. They cant be that bad.

Even the Russians arent buying new Russian aircraft, at least not enthusiastically. They are indeed bad -- generally far less efficient than their Western counterparts.

All I can say is kudos to the Iran Air mx team who seem to be keeping the 70's vintage 722/732/747 fleet flying safely.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
a300
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:30 am

The two A300-605R's acquired by IR in 1994 (EP-IBA and IBB) were allowed by the Americans as a compensation for their shoot down of the IR A300B2-203 over the Straits of Hormouz in July 1988. It actually shows how mean-spirited they are. They shot down an unarmed civilian plane, killed 290 people and refused to pay IR for its lost plane. Instead, after years of urging, they allowed IR to but two new planes from its own money. In fact, that deal almost didn't happen. IBA and IBB were manufactured in late 1993 but not delivered in until Dec 1994.
The Russian made planes of the new generation (eg Tu-204 and Il-96) are actually quite fine planes. The Russians and Iranians will never accept that due their love for everything Western (mostly American actually). In Persian it's called gharbzadegee. Just read the specs of a Tu-204 vs B757-200 and you'll see the Tupolev's are actually better for IR domestic operations.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:08 am

Yyz717,

The B737-200s have recently been retired from service, ( as have the last B727-100s ). They are stored at Iran Air's maintenance base at Mehrabad waiting to be (probably) sold.
 
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yyz717
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:50 am

Thanks FLYSSC. I knew the 722 fleet was still flying. I assumed the 732 fleet was also.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
dl021
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:12 am

If the MD-90's were sold/leased to Iran how would they maintain the things? Would it not be difficult for them to arrange for maintenance and spares under the current embargo situation? Would it not be better for IR to use the TU-204's and perhaps the used F-100's purely from a price and servicability standpoint? Long haul will still be difficult, but thats out of the realm of the original point.

oh, I'm glad to see that everyone is keeping politics out of the CA forum. We take a good CivAv question and manage to inject political vitriol designed to elicit similar responses.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:39 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a large fleet of MD90's in China. China could easily sell those aircraft to Iran. The focus of airlines these days is fleet simplification. With China's economy going full tilt they have large orders for Airbus and Boeing aircraft. These MD90's would have no place due to the fact that they cannot expand their fleets. Spare parts can easily be obtained by buying out the Chinese inventory's. I can see it as being possible. However not very likely because I haven't herd anything about China shopping for a buyer. Just a few thoughts.

-m

 Big thumbs up
 
a300
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:12 pm

I doubt that the Chinese would brake the embargo and risk the anger of their largest export market. While I agree that politics should be kept out of Civ Av forums, the Iran air fleet issue is purely political. One cannot separate the aviation and politics; if it was possible Iran Air would have done that by now! I still favor Tu204-100s for IR and B9 domestic operations and IL-96 for intercontinental routes. They may not be Western or sexy, but they are new, safe and parts can be easily obtained. I know people in IR and they are very reluctant to take any CIS planes.
Ultimately, the solution is for Iran to built its own planes. HESA is making a copy of the An-140 as IR-140. Instead of support, HESA has only gotten grief from other Iranian interests. The domestic insurance companies will not insure the plane at an economic price. That's why Safiran (SFN) has not started operating its two An-140s yet. Don't forget that Iran tried to ny the F70, F100 line before Fokker went bankrupt. HESA has talked about assembling the new Tu-334 100 seater.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
QIguy24
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:22 pm

I must say that I got a little shock when I landed in CPH last weekend. Iran Air was there with one of their Boeing 747.
And I actually started to wonder why they operate US built aircrafts when they hate the US. I didn't know much about Iran Air's fleet. But I thought they were operating russian built aircrafts or Airbus. I would never imagine that they would use a US aircraft.

But on the other hand it was great to see I must admit.
 
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yyz717
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:10 pm

And I actually started to wonder why they operate US built aircrafts when they hate the US. I didn't know much about Iran Air's fleet.

Iran Air's remaining Boeing fleet was bought in the 70's when Iran was a US ally.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:27 pm

Ahhh.
That makes more sense. Thanks for the infoYyz717.
 
a300
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:11 pm

QIguy24,
The Iranians don not hate the US. It is mostly Western propaganda that there is any hatred. Nevertheless, we hate the actions of the US government, such as the embargo. YYZ717 is correct in saying that the IR's Boeing fleet were bought in the 60s and 70s when the Imperial Iran was a puppet regime of the US. It gets more complicated, however. One of the 747-SP86s (EP-IAD) and the sole 747-186B (EP-IAM) were delivered during the time of the Islamic Republic of Iran! During a brief flirt with sanity, the Clinton administration allowed Boeing to start negotiations with Iran Air. IR placed a one-billion dollar (cash) firm order for 14 737-486s in 1994. The anti-Iranian special interest groups in the US Congress killed it. Given the opportunity, Iran will buy Boeing planes in a heartbeat. BTW, CPH is served by at least 2 Iranian airlines. IR uses B747s (186B,286BM,SP86), A300(605R) and A310 (203,304). Kish Air is the one that currently uses Tu154Ms. Iran Air Tours (B9/IRB) used to service CPH, also with 154Ms.
I hope that clears up things.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
FlySSC
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RE: MD-90 For Iran?

Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:47 pm

Today, most of the 34 a/c operated by IR were acquired prior to 1979.

The Airbus A300 were introduced and flown on regional routes in 1978. At that time, IRAN AIR was the fastest growing airline in the world . 6 more A300 were bought in 1978.

The only new aircraft IR was able to purchase in the last 20 years had been 6 F-100 and 2 A300-600R (delivered new from the manufacturer in 1990).

Recently, 2 A320 have been leased from Tunisian carrier "Nouvelair" to replace the retired B737-200. IR was very happy with them but as they were operated on an ACMI (Aircraft,Crew, Maintenance & Insurance) lease, the higher costs prevent this solution of leasing to be extended.
Iran Air would be very interested in operating more A320 family but only if it could operate them independently or on a dry-lease contract.
Several times over the past few years, orders have been announced for brand new A320, A330 or A340. Each time the delivery was postponed or the whole deal finally not signed. IR was even one of the first airlines interested in the 2 A340-500 that were not taken up by Air Canada and that had been stored temporary at CHR (France).

Today, 25 years after the "Revolution", Iran Air's International network hasn't changed, minus the transatlantic routes. The recent acquisition of A310 from Turkish Airlines allowed IR to increase frequencies on some existing service and serve few new destinations, Cologne (CGN) in Germany being the last added.

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