CXoneworld
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:59 am

Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:38 am

Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific Airways has disciplined the flight crew of a B744 passenger flight following an allegedly "sporty'' approach to HKG.

Angelique Tam, the airline's manager of corporate communications, confirmed the news that the captain and first officer on CX 904 (29 July) had ignored the advice of air traffic controllers and consequently led the aircraft to make a 60-degree turn just 500 feet above the choppy waters in order to land safely on the Runway 07L. Reportedly that the aircraft's ground proximity warning system (GPWS) was not activated during the incident

``There was no danger to passengers. We take all necessary action to maintain our high standards of flying.'' Tam added.

Nevertheless, the Civil Aviation Department in Hong Kong confirmed that it had launched an investigation into the incident together with the airline.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=50127&intcatid=1
oneworld alliance revolves around you
 
radelow
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:07 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:51 am

Sounds like he thought he was landing at Kai Tak...HAHAHAHA  Smile

Mark
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:02 am

"Reportedly that the aircraft's ground proximity warning system (GPWS) was not activated during the incident"

If the aircraft was in landing configuration (which, at 500ft ASL I hope like hell it was), the GPWS wouldn't have sounded anyway.  Smile
 
musapapaya
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:59 pm

what aircraft is that? a 744?
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:25 pm

Depending on the sink rate, the GPWS could have sounded. Being in the landing configuration does not bias out the sink rate warning.
Fly fast, live slow
 
XXXX10
Posts: 703
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:06 pm

If I read it correctly the article said that the turn was completed 5 miles out and at 500 feet isn't that way below the normal profile?

It also mentions that they were avoiding bad weather, if so and assuming that they didn't descend below their MDA have they broken any rules?
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6814
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:11 pm

500feet at 5 miles out, just a wee bit low don't you think, aern't they usually 1500+feet AGL at that distance from the runway?
 
soaringadi
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:19 pm

Looks like Cathay pilots remember the good ol' Hong Kong  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Fly safe..
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
elcapi1980
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:31 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:39 pm

I know that in commercial operation you are told to make smooth manuevers to the conform of passenger, but I beleive that making an steep turn with 60 degrees bank wont compromise the safety of the pax, so what is the big deal,
I am wondering what will happen if they (pilot) make side slip aproach...that will be fun .....
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
propatriamori
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:42 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:20 pm

I was on that flight, seat 82A upper deck...

It was a very choppy approach, and the first time I've ever felt like I was going to get sick on a plane. When we broke out of the clouds, it was noticable to me that we were way below normal glideslope, and we did make a large turn (maybe 40 degree?) about 500 feet above the water, and maintained that altitude until landing at Hong Kong. It did cause me a bit of concern, as it felt like we were outside the normal approach procedures.

There were only 4 other pax on the upper deck, so I don't know if anyone else even noticed.

Funny thing is, I remember the captain announcing in Manila that the First Officer would be handling the flying portion of the duties for that flight, and after landing I remember thinking that maybe the FO had made a mistake on approach.

Most memorable flight this year!
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:20 pm

Personally that sounds like the kind of approach I would have enjoyed! Smile.
I believe that they article is saying that they made a 60 degree turn i.e. from heading 010'-070' to intercept the correct approach to 07L and not that they initiated a 60 degree banked turn - now that would have been interesting at 500 ASL!!!
If they were indeed avoiding adverse weather then the manouver sounds fair enough. I can't quite figure out what they were doing so low - I guess they lost a lot of height performing the turn, but obviously some other individuals are less keen on this kind of flying.

Regards,

SevenHeavy
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
propatriamori
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:42 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:25 pm

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the flight and it was a very exciting deviation from the norm!
 
EnoreFilho
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:01 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:46 am

In good Portuguese, the right word to remember Kai Tak approach is "saudade"!!!
Member of the all mighty Canudos Air Force!!!!
 
njoizflyin
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:05 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:16 am

It does not sound like there was any real danger involved, just very different from a normal maneuver. Five hundred feet is a bit low, but depending on what kind of flyer you are it would be a scary thing or an exciting one. Let's try not to whine about it too much though.
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:16 am

Interesting. 60 degrees of bank seems a bit much to me, but we're talking about a 744 crew here. They know what theyre doin'....most of the time  Big grin
 
KBOS
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:46 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:18 am

Must be an old military pilot...nobody ever complained when he did it in a cargo plane.....
I don't care if the sun don't shine, I do my drinkin in the evening time when I'm in Rhode Island
 
WomBat151
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:42 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:29 am

Shouldn't they have heard the "BANK ANGLE!!!" warning?  Smile
Ian @ EHAM (AMS), 3,1NM of SPY VOR radial 205
 
elcapi1980
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:31 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:38 am

Shouldn't they have heard the "BANK ANGLE!!!" warning?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Do they have one ?

I 've never heard that?
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
Blackbird1331
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:47 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:17 am

The bank angle warning was invented in 1903 when Orville screamed at Wilbur, "You're banking!"
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:14 am

Granted, Philsquares, the sink rate may have activated if they exceeded those parameters.
Sounds a lot like one of my visual approaches on Flightsim. Big grin
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:45 am

To clarify there is nothing to say that the aircraft excecuted a 60 degree banked maneuver. It made a 60 degree turn which is a completely different thing. The degree of bank was in all likelyhood perfectly acceptable so there would be no cause for any kind of bank angle warning to sound

Regards,

SevenHeavy
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
propatriamori
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:42 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:29 am

From my recollection, the bank angle was dramatic, but I'm not sure it was quite 60 degrees. Eyewitnesses and memory being somewhat less than perfect, I could not venture a guess. Being a few feet behind the cockpit door, I do recall hearing some kind of loud annunciation, again, can't remember what.

We were very low and a long way from the runway, in fact quite a lot of throttle was applied to get the plane higher in altitude and back on glideslope.

500 feet from the ocean banking that hard was certainly exciting.

A sixty degree change of heading is more likely judging by the bearing I saw from my window to a powerplant-like structure off on the far shore.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:39 am

The most terrible point is that Cathay said it is safe.
Indeed, it is dangerous action!
Even at Kai Tak, it is not neccesary to make a 60 degree turn at so low altitude!
And the interesting point is whether they use ILS approach or visual approach. If they use ILS approach, this kind of events should not happen, if they use visual approach, why they use visual approach?
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:51 am

Would love to see a video or pics of this flight!
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Airbus_A340
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:23 am

CXCPA, Cathay didn't say that "it was safe", they said that their passengers were in no danger. In what position are you to say that it was a dangerous action? Are you part of the investigating team?

There is cause for concern for sure, otherwise this matter wouldn't have been raised....so I'm not saying what they did was right.
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:46 pm

Airbus_A340,
I think we need some people to explain this sentence:
"There was no danger to passengers."

And let try this action in flightsim, you will know how dangerous the action is.
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:25 pm

CXCPA,

What is so dangerous about it? They did a 60 degree heading change and NOT a 60 degree angle of bank. 500ft was indeed a little low, but it is not dangerous. A few more miles along and they would have been at 500ft anyway!!
 
Airbus_A340
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:51 pm

CXCPA, I don't need flightsim, I fly.

And as Dab920 said, it's a 60 degree heading change, not angle of bank.
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
B-HOP
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:26 pm

CXCPA

Not to mention they need to use localizer BEFORE they start to intercept the ILS, I beleieve the localizer would be somewhere near Chaung Chau
Live life to max!!!
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:06 pm

http://www.vatroc.org/english/charts/vhhh_1101/07L_TD.pdf

Let see the approach chart of RWY07L, VHHH, then you will understand it more.

There are many mountains around the airport! It is very dangerous not to follow the path!
And for a 747 plane need to change the heading of 60 degree in a very short period of time is very sharp turn!! Sharp turn means large banking angle! And how about misapproach? it may hit mountains!
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:27 pm

CXCPA,

It is obvious you are not very familiar with the way things work. Simply looking at the chart is misleading. The mountains in the area are not that close to one another. There is plenty of room to approach and even the normal approach path is well below the height of the mountains on Lantau island. Doing a missed approach is also no problem, as you follow the published missed approach flight path.
Turning 60 degrees and turning 30 degrees will result in the same bank angle anyway, more or less. Doing a larger turn does not mean you bank any steeper. What if we did a 180 degree turn? It certainly doesn't mean that we a 90 degree angle of bank and point one wing at the sky!! It is not at all unusual to do 60 degree heading changes or more. Sometimes ATC want you to widen out your approach to give you more room between you and the aircraft in front, and sometimes they even take you past the ILS to intercept from the other side, also resulting in very large changes of heading. It is really no big deal.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:51 am

CX flyboy,
I understand your point. But you miss one important point. I mean turning LARGE ANGLE in a SHORT TIME is a sharp turn. Let say for banking angle 15 degree, it takes long time to turn 60 degree than 30 degree. Right?
"Misapproach" at my previous post mean the plane turn to the wrong position, may be heading to the coastle line of Northwest Lantau, or may be Tuen Mun, etc. Sorry for the inappropriate word.
Anyway, the spokesman of Cathay make me frightened, not the event.
Anyway, it seems the pilots do not follow ATC's instruction and there is not evident to show that the ATC's instruction is wrong. Why the captain choose not to follow the ATC's instruction?
 
Airbus_A340
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:11 am

Where does it say they had to turn a large angle in a short time?

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with spokeswoman's statement.

From the Article.
"and indicated the pilots were trying to avoid rough weather. "

There is nothing about the pilots not following ATC orders, it was advice- remember the pilots make the final decision, not the ATC.

The priorities when flying are to "aviate", "navigate" and "communicate". In that order. So they may well have been occupied with what they were doing in the cockpit flying the aircraft.

[Edited 2004-08-20 22:14:28]
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:28 am

CXCPA,

Large aircraft, even 747s are more manouvreable than you think! There is penty of room for an entire airshow by 747s to be flown between Lantau and Macau. The hills of Tuen Mun are not even an issue, as they are past the airport. There is plenty of time to do a 60 degree turn....even a 360 degree turn without even coming near to the mountains.
As for following or not following ATC, I cannot comment, as I do not know what ATC said to the aircraft. Neither do any of us really know what happened so none of us can really comment, but as Airbus_A340 said above, the most important thing is to look after the aircraft. This is more important than ATC, and if ATC tell us something, but we have to avoid very bad weather, then we will avoid bad weather and not do what ATC tell us, but we will instead tell ATC (when there is time) what we are doing.
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:42 pm

CX flyboy:

From your replies, it sounds what the crew have done are not totally unacceptable, so what is the exact reason for them to be disciplined? Is it simply they breached certain SOP set by CX?
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:26 pm

Ac,

I can't really comment on what the crew exactly did, as I am not sure, however I was just saying to CXCPA, that what happened was not as dangerous as the media have made out, and what he seems to think. CX have very strict safety standards and what may be regarded as a small mistake which everyone makes in one airline is considered unacceptable in another airline...in this case, CX. The crew have not been fired as it was not that serious an incident, although the have had some action taken against them as the newspaper article says. They did not break any aviation law, but as you say, probably contravened SOP somewhere, but that it not really for me to say, as I know little about the incident.
 
Airbus_A340
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:54 am

CXCPA, you have no idea do you.
The aircraft was never in any dangerous situation, nor were the passengers.
99.9% of passengers have no idea about the operation of an aircraft. I think half of them would have been more scared flying into Kai Tak.

You persist to believe that the aircraft was in a dangerous situation.

There is no need to question whether cx_flyboy is a pilot or not. He is. I have met him, and he has also demonstrated that he is a pilot in the Tech_Ops forum, he's very well respected in there.
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:22 am

I believe some passengers may feel nervous, think it is dangerous

I guess most passengers won't be able to feel it as most of them don't know how low the aircraft is except those airplane fans like us who like to "monitor" the whole landing by watching out of windows.

otherwise the media did not tell the story, just similiar to the case of "living bugs in HK swimming pool".

...it is told by HK government officials that it is proved that these bugs are NOT harmful to human...
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:35 am

AC,
Maybe one of the passengers is a pilot from SQ. so he complain it to the media. Is this explanation reasonable?

The case of "bug in swimming pool" is like that:
Someone complain to the media there is bugs in swimming pool. So the media investigate it and put it as headlines. So the government official say something to the public....it s not harmful....
 
B-HOP
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:59 am

CXCPA

How do you know there was a pilot from SQ on board? It never amaze me with your 'professional' knowledge, surely they have done something wrong, but if it is dangerous than perhaps I would see a big hole in Tai O (which I have a house in). Sometimes they need to sway to avoid cloud weather etc. Is it just typical for HK people that they always believes what the paper tells you. Paper headline are designed to attract reader's attention, next time, use your head first.
Are you trying to raise the issue about pilot pay again? It ALWAYS makes me laugh when you made a comparison between HKCEE/AL and HKATPL. At least ATPL requires you to have thinking and judgement, not just memorising facts. Boy, you need to realize this is a globalized world, HK are competiting with everyone else for skills and resources with the whole world, not within 7 million people.
Just like our silver medal today, it is from people learnt/train outside HK, but still kudos to them. How many people grow up in HK can make it into the top of sports arena, not enough I guess. In fact, many top athlete are educated outside HK, like Sherry Tsui and many others
I too met CXflyboy in CLK last year, after the typhoon in July and yes he is a damn good pilot. To give you a hint, he is one of the pilot who attended aviation day 2003 last December.

P.S Congulation to HK team, you have made us proud!!!!

Kevin
Live life to max!!!
 
Airbus_A340
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:52 am

Kevin, well said.

CXCPA, I don't know who reported it, and to be honest, I couldn't care less as it is not the issue. Cathay have not put any aircraft or passengers in any danger. Period.

If this is so hard for you to understand, then this is your problem, no one elses.
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
B-HOP
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:32 am

Airbus_A340

Thanks, sorry for the poor grammar, was in a real rush, head weren't functioning.
As I said, we are in the world where we are competiting with everyone else's for skills/resources. Discriminating minds would get us nowhere. Speaking to an 21 yrs old Brit who grew up in HK, he highlighted, the very reason why HK grow rapidly in the 80's is we don't care what race you are, but more about your talent. it surpise me how politically correct HK is these days.
In the past, I too thinks my UK degree gives me a head start to everyone elses in HK, but I have since change and would want more expierence.
Still though, having families who work in acedmaic field (HKUST Professor) and tell the whole family a Phd would get you aton of fame, and my dad really buys into that. They wants me to have Phd and then onto teaching, thank god I know where I wants to be. What they don't realize is, finishing Phd the age of 30's, equipped with a piece of paper and escaped from the real world gets you nowhere.

CXCPA

Go on, believe whatever you believe, wait till you arrive in the real world.

Kevin
Live life to max!!!
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:29 am

Dangerous don't mean accident happen! just like overspeeding is dangerous, but don't mean accident happen! It is stupid to say it is safe because of no accident happen. As member AC say, normal people do not notice it, so only explanation is some professional notice it. As CX is a strong competitor os SQ, so according to AC, there is a possibility that a SQ pilot report it to the media. The government start to investigate this action before the complaint received, so is it really safe?? The answer is very simple.

B-HOP,
Nowadays, memorising is not useful to deal with HKCEE/HKAL. Please take a look of current HKCEE/HKAL papers.
 
AC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:54 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:48 pm

As CX is a strong competitor os SQ, so according to AC, there is a possibility that a SQ pilot report it to the media...

Did i say so?.... Anyway, I believe we should stop guessing anything which is not stated in the original statement. Lets wait for the result of CAD's investigation.

To give you a hint, he is one of the pilot who attended aviation day 2003 last December.

Really? I have been there and talked with several CX pilots too... is it possible for me to verify whether CX flyboy is the one I have talked with?..
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
CXoneworld
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:59 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:03 pm

I would thank you all for your interest in this topic

Having started the thread myself, or having picked up the issue and brought it over to A.net by no means indicates that I consider the alleged incident as dangerous. As far as the fact that I am not as technically knowledgeable as many of my fellow members is concerned, I have tried to consult some additional news sources and discuss the issue with a few more informed friends to make sense of the incident, and now I have come to the conclusion the alleged incident is NOT really a big deal!!

From a passenger's perspective, I trust that CX is an airline with the highest professional and safety standard. Similarly, for an equally respected company such as SQ, I have the confidence that its employees maintain the best professional and ethical standard, and will not engage in any negative publicity against its competitors just to gain a competitive edge.

No doubt that the above is only my personal judgment, and I do respect that other members are entitled to an alternative view. Nevertheless, I have to say once again that I am not really worried about the story as I see no clear danger to the passengers.... Although what does concern me now is the discussion has seemingly gone a bit personal, so how about calling it a stop here, okay?

 Smile
oneworld alliance revolves around you
 
cathay250
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 6:16 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:38 pm

“As CX is a strong competitor os SQ, so according to AC, there is a possibility that a SQ pilot report it to the media.”

Oh please, I was actually thought it was just a joke when CXCPA said something about the SQ pilot report to the media thing. Being a strong competitor not necessarily mean them against CX in everything, so every customer services complaint received are also from SQ?

“Dangerous don't mean accident happen! just like overspeeding is dangerous, but don't mean accident happen! It is stupid to say it is safe because of no accident happen.”

Under what professional qualification that you can support yourself to say it is dangerous? Is that what all we know now about flight CX906 is equivalent to overspeeding a car?

“The government start to investigate this action before the complaint received, so is it really safe?? The answer is very simple”

It was at least not a normal landing as others. I am sure there is a mechanism of how the civil aviation department as well as CX report or investigate incidents under certain circumstances and that incident under the current system, hence need to be investigated or being reported by the pilots. But if you think whenever being reported or investigated is equal to unsafe, then please sorry again, you are just overly simplifying what was happened.

”Nowadays, memorising is not useful to deal with HKCEE/HKAL. Please take a look of current HKCEE/HKAL papers.”

I sit for the year 2000 AL and 98 HKCEE exams, what you see from the past papers were, if u looked at the last 5 years past paper, chances are 95% of questions that u will see in the exam were already in the past papers, and that’s not memorizing? And I am still yet to see a marking scheme of any AL subject are instructed as giving a free hand to marker of any answer they see.

”Remember, everyone, even the most intelligent people, makes mistakes.”

You know what? That ‘s probably the only statement that I agreed, at least for the latter part for you
 
tsentsan
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:48 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:02 pm

Hi guys,

Errr... I'm not understanding something here, where does SQ come into play? I tried to do a search for "SQ" or "Singapore" in the news article but havent seen any... So whoever brought up SIA, please tell me where I can find that an SIA pilot reported this.




Anyway, I've seen a CX 777 do the same manuever a few years back in Changi Airport, he was visual on downwind, and ATC gave him the go ahead to do a whole 180 degrees turn and he landed nicely on 02L.
NO URLS in signature
 
frjmx328
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:20 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:32 pm

B747-400's would more than likely have EGPWS installed. Yes it gives a "bank angle warning". Sounds to me that the Cathy crew was well off-profile, and if they "broke the clouds @ 500 MSL, 5 miles out" they should have been going through the the go -around checklist at that point. While it may have been fun, done a few MAF's in my day, sounds like the crew was far from "stable" on final.
 
B-HOP
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:40 pm

CXCPA

You claims CEE/AL is more difficult than a professional pilot license

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/527445/
(posted in 2001, the second last post right on the bottom)

Looking at your profile you are a undergrad, I am sure you jump though loops after loops to get there, well done!
My point being, life is not all about passing a few exams, make into university and claims they knows everything. It is also not about sticking with books and never use your head, trust me. HK youth/teen need to get outside HK to understand the world massive, not just about passing a few exams or 'ar Gil ar Sa'. Good luck

kevin
Live life to max!!!
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Cathay Pilot "disciplined"

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:20 pm

CXCPA,

'''I seldom see the view from Asian countries such as Singapore, Malyasia, Taiwan, China, Japan, India, Korea, etc. Can you tell me why?'''


Maybe because they think first and then post something only when it's logic? Some persons here post first and then think, or don't think at all... By the way, did you finish you're homework yet for tomorrow? Education is important to post smart things here...  Laugh out loud

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos