radelow
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Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:59 am

How do they get the smaller Airbus' across the Atlantic? Especially if they are not ETOPS certified or don't have the range. Or what about 737's the other way that aren't ETOPS certified or don't have the range?

Mark
 
gigneil
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:02 am

ETOPS doesn't apply to delivery flights.

They fly most from SNN or DUB to BGR via REK or KEF when they don't have range, but most 737NGs and A320s can fly the whole route no problem empty.

N
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:05 am

- Excemption from ETOPS is granted for ferry flights.
- With no pax or luggage, the range is much greater anyway.
- You can fly via Gander, Iceland and the UK. Hawaii is a bigger problem.
- I don't know about the 737 and the 32x but the 717 can be equipped with extra tanks in the cabin for ferry flights. See pic.


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[Edited 2004-08-17 23:07:15]

[Edited 2004-08-17 23:07:38]

[Edited 2004-08-17 23:08:06]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
radelow
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:11 am

Cool! Thanks for the info guys... Just posting all the questions that I always wanted answering!

Mark
 
Rick767
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:47 am

No need for complicated extra tanks on a 737 delivery flight to Europe, they can quite easily take full fuel with no passengers and just route via Keflavik.

Same applies to A320 series to the USA (TLS > KEF > JFK would be a typical JetBlue delivery flight)
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
bill142
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:07 am

I was always wondering about 737's that had to come downunder over the pacific.
 
bmi330
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:16 am

Quite a lot of airbus a32x for NW went via PIK I believe on the a.net database u can see a320's in northwest last 3 colour schemes
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:33 am

with the exception of Hawaii, no ferry routes need ferry tanks for airliners, even B1900Ds and Saab 340s transited the North Atlantic without extra tanks.

The route to Australia normally runs thru europe and asia, not via the Pacific. The trick with ferry flights isnt to follow the shortest path, its to fly the safest and easiest path.

A few of the most recent 737 deliveries to Asia transitted Alaska and Siberia, but this routing is only attempted in the Northern Summer.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
ua777222
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:51 am

For some reason the link doesn't change after I click to head somewhere else within the site.

http://www.a340.net/

Then click Multimedia.

Then click under the OTHER COCKPIT selection "Airbus"

At the top is a video of the devilavery flight of the first or one of the first A320's to US air in 99'. No extra fuel tanks just a quick stop in Goose Bay.

Hope that helps!

UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:00 am

When I lived in Saipan during '98, several of the 737NGs going to the Chinese carriers staged through there. The crews I met told me the more common routings involved Hawaii-Majuro-Saipan/Guam and then onward.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
Jetmek319
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:07 pm

When F9 ferries one across the pond, we go direct EDHI to BGR, clear customs, and then fly to PHX for some F9 Mods. We could head to BOS if necessary. This works for both the A318 and 319.
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Jetmek319
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:08 pm

Forgot to mention that we don't use any extra fuel tanks for the flight.
Never, ever moon a werewolf !!
 
brons2
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:40 pm

Jetmek319, where is EDHI?

And are you a F9 pilot?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
modesto2
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:24 am

At JetBlue, we ferry our aircraft from Tolouse, France to New York-Kennedy via Keflavik (KEF). With a quick tech stop for fuel, the aircraft continues with no problems.
 
EconoBoy
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:01 am

Going off on a slight tangent, I saw a prog once about the guys who ferry the single engine prop planes from the US to Europe (on their own). They have extra tanks, immersion suits and top notch navigation but even so, it looked pretty bleak, lonely and scary doing the hop over the icey sea to Iceland (or maybe Greenland), and from there to Scotland.
 
desertjets
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:19 am

Again I keep forgetting this guys name, but he is a regular writer/editor for Plane & Pilot magazine and works as a ferry pilot on the side for GA aircraft. Several good stories.

One flight he had a Piper Navajo Chieftain to take from Hawaii to Florida. The tricky part is the Hilo to Santa Barbara leg (I believe this is the shortest possible routing from Hawaii to the mainland). For this leg to work the winds need to be just right. I believe after 2-3 hours in he had to turn back because he wasn't getting the planned groundspeeds that he needed to land in SBA.

Another flight involved ferrying a Mooney from the US down to Austrailia. I imagine this went via Hawaii then island hopped all the way down. His final leg was Brisbane-Perth... non-stop. The ATC was at first taken aback when he said his flight that day would be non-stop... until he remembered that he came in the previous day on a ferry flight. Both flights involved the use of ferry tanks.
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burnsie28
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:00 am

I believe, not 100% sure, NW goes- Toulouse-Glasgow-Goose Bay- Minneapolis/St. Paul.
 
LHR27C
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:28 am

Brons2 - EDHI is Hamburg Finkenwerder where the 319s/318s are built.

I remember reading about interesting delivery routes for SAA's 737-800s on the way from RNT to JNB.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
 
JCS
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:14 pm

What about Fokkers? How did they make these flights?
 
knoxibus
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:28 pm

Read a full article once on a ferry flight for....a Socata TBM 700 between LFBT and MIA or FLL.......quite amazing.

Stopped in Scotland, Iceland, Greenlan, Canada.....quite a long flight at that small speed.
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
moman
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RE: Shuttling Airbus' Over The Atlantic

Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:52 pm

DesertJets,

I believe you are talking about Bill Cox. He always has great articles about ferrying smaller aircraft all over the world and they would be good reading for someone interested in it (Plane and Pilot)

Moman
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever