7LBAC111
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Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:14 pm

From the following source, http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/08/1092819291.html it would seem that AB are talking to both Boeing and Airbus regarding their future fleet.

However with Air Berlin operating an aircraft in Boeing's new corporate livery, are the Airbus talks being used as a a form of leverage for a better Boeing deal, or is there no significance to that livery?
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
A319114
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:22 pm

I can see them going for Airbus. Their close partner, Air Niki is all-Airbus and since they share ground facilities, commonality could be a plus.
I don't see much significane in the Dreamliner livery, I think it's just a publicity stunt from which both are profiting...
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:24 pm

Air Niki may be a close partner, but they only operate a couple of Airbuses - which given AB have 45 Boeings - wouldn't make sense IMO
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:29 pm


AB's livery does not fit any Airbus type.

What if AB launch the Airbus' B7E7 rival ?!!! It would be a hard kick for Boeing !!!
 
ka
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:52 pm

My guess is they are going for Boeing. Niki Lauda already mentioned that he is not too happy with the performance of the leased-in Airbus. And after expiry of the leases after 2005 he´d rather prefer B738.
On the other hand he always goes for the cheapest. So a very good Airbus offer could convince him to do else....

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
mauriceb
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:00 am

hello

since the performance of both planes is almost the same it will all depend on prices

Air berlin can go for airbus because: - they always offer good prices
-its german made
Air berlin can go for Boeing because: -they alreadye have a lot of 737's
-maybe shared order together with nikki, theire partner, since the Airbus leases expire in 2005


greetings maurice
 
Leskova
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:00 am

One quite new quote from Joachim Hunold (Air Berlin CEO) is "Wenn ich mich von einem Hersteller abhängig mache, kann ich nicht mehr so flexibel auf Änderungen im Markt reagieren" (translation: "If I make myself dependant on one manufacturer, I will not be able to react as flexibly to changes in the market any more"), and he's talking about a "two fleet solution"...

Still, there's no telling if this is just talk to put pressure on Boeing...

Here's a link to the story that includes the above quote - and, yes, it's in German...

http://www.handelsblatt.com/pshb/fn/relhbi/sfn/buildhbi/cn/GoArt!200012,200038,778893/SH/0/depot/0/

I think you need to create a login for that page, but it's free of charge.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:17 am

What if AB launch the Airbus' B7E7 rival ?!!! It would be a hard kick for Boeing !!!

Extremly unlikely. AB is not in the market for 200-300 seat widebodies in the first place.

I can see them going for Airbus. Their close partner, Air Niki is all-Airbus and since they share ground facilities, commonality could be a plus.

I think, but don't hold me to this, Air Berlin has a 45% stake in Air Niki. I do not believe they share maintenance bases or crew commonality, and even if they did, each airline opperating their own fleet from the respective manufactures makes more sense than Air Niki opperating A32X and AB opperating both A32X and 738.

AB has made eight 738 orders for a total of 26 frames in addition to launching the 737-800 in late-1994. It makes perfect sense for AB to continue ordering the 738 and Air Niki to order the A32X family.

If AB did order Airbus, I would think it would be associated with a move by AB to take a larger stake in Air Niki.

Air berlin can go for airbus because: - they always offer good prices

Unless your name is EasyJet and you're asking for 120 73G at an insulting price, Boeing rarely leaves loyal customers out in the rain.

-its german made

That hasn't stopped them from ordering dozens of American manufactured 737s with a half-French engine  Big grin
 
Leskova
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:29 am

AB has made eight 738 orders for a total of 26 frames in addition to launching the 737-800 in late-1994

I thought that was Hapag Lloyd - one of the other big charterers over here...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
mauriceb
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:38 am

-its german made

That hasn't stopped them from ordering dozens of American manufactured 737s with a half-French engine


sorry i mean together with the good prices Airbus is offering now  Wink/being sarcastic
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:48 am

I thought that was Hapag Lloyd - one of the other big charterers over here...

Hapag Lloyd was the first airline to launch the 737-800, but Air Berlin placed their order no more than 30 days later.

And I thought typically any airline that places an order before EOS is considered a launch customer, as ANA, Air NZ, and First Choice/Blue Panorama are all considered "launch" customers for the 7E7. If I'm wrong don't hesitate to correct me.
 
Leskova
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:58 am

Nah... actually, I think you're right - in that sense, they'd certainly also deserve the "launch customer" title... I had (mis-)understood your comment to mean that they were the first ones to order the plane at all.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
McGoose
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:35 am

AB has made eight 738 orders for a total of 26 frames in addition to launching the 737-800 in late-1994. It makes perfect sense for AB to continue ordering the 738 and Air Niki to order the A32X family.

And probably another two B738 orders quite recently. At least if you look at the pressrelease (It's only available in Swedish unfortunately). But it says AB has ordered two Zonal Drying systems to be installed by Boeing during production. http://se.biz.yahoo.com/040709/22/1g76u.html. From this it looks like they're going for B738.
 
pelican
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RE: Air Berlin To Choose Boeing Or Airbus

Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:51 am

Unless Airbus offers a very good price, AB will opt for Boeing. They are for years a loyal Boeing customer and they are satisfied with the 738.

I think, but don't hold me to this, Air Berlin has a 45% stake in Air Niki.
If they haven't bought some more shares of Niki they hold a 24% stake.

pelican

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