timz
Posts: 6098
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:51 am

You've all seen those down-on shots of 747s departing runway 25R at LAX, by Sam Chui and Daniel Werner.

Are the north-south VFR routes over LAX the same as they used to be? Years ago there were two routes:

about over the middle of the field, northward at 4500 ft (?), southward at 3500, thru a gap in the Class B so no ATC clearance needed, or

1/2 to 1 nm offshore (i.e. 1 1/2 to 2 nm west of the ends of runways 25), thru the Class B, altitude as assigned between 2500-4000 ft.

Presumably all the pics were taken from aircraft on the offshore route; I wonder how much cheating ATC allows on the 1/2-to-1-nm-offshore? Why are you supposed to stay offshore, anyway?
 
aaway
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RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:41 am

Timz,
The offshore route was discontinued a couple of years ago. Seems there were few instances LAX departures flying through assigned altitudes and encroaching on minimum vertical seperations from traffic in this corridor.
The midfield route is still used, though with a higher floor. In lieu of the offshore route, a new north/south VFR corridor was established east of LAX with the Hollywood Park racetrack as the reference point.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:03 am

Oops, my mistake. Years ago there were three routes, including the Hollywood Park, which isn't a factor in the discussion of the pics.

But the offshore route must be available sometimes; those pics weren't taken from midfield. Surely you're not allowed to wander that far west from the midfield route? (Class B drops to the surface at the shoreline-- right?)
 
aaway
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RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:25 am

Not the offshore route you're referring to. That one had a 2000' floor, which was then raised to 3000 before being closed.
The only VFR traffic allowed to transition the shoreline are helicopters and banner-towing aircraft. Copters approaching/departing LAX are usually at 500' to 1000' when hitting the shoreline portion of class B adjacent LAX. Transitioning a/c usually drop below the tops of the LAX sand dunes (approx. 300' above the surface of the bay when north/southbound.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:35 am

So how about the midfield route-- is it still the SMO 132-degree radial? That would cross runway 7L/25R near its midpoint, and clearly the pics were taken from nowhere near there. You know the ones I mean:

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Photo © Sam Chui
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Photo © Sam Chui



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Photo © Sam Chui
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Photo © Daniel Werner

 
Av8trxx
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:54 am

So how about the midfield route-- is it still the SMO 132-degree radial?
Yep. "Pilots shall navigate via the Santa Monica 132 radial, remaining between the San Diego freeway and the pacific Ocean Shoreline at all times."

http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/los_angeles/airspace.htm
 
pilottim747
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RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:16 am

I heard that the pilots along the shoreline talk to LAX Tower and coordinate with them where they can be. They said in a previous thread that the Tower is pretty accomodating of GA aircraft if they stay out of the way. Can anyone confirm?

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
Av8trxx
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RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:19 am

VFR corridor traffic does not talk to LAX tower.

From the link above with the operating rules-

"The flight shall not require communications with or a clearance from Air Traffic Control"....."Frequency 128.55 is provided for the exchange of information between pilots using this area"

(The only traffic that would need to be in communication would be those a/c operating within the class B airspace outside the L A Special Flight Rules Area, i.e. the low level helicpoter ops.)

[Edited 2004-08-20 01:24:18]
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:37 am

Aircraft on the cross-above-midfield route don't have to talk to ATC, but the photographers were apparently in the Class B, offshore, and so did have to contact-- SoCal, or LAX tower?
 
aaway
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RE: VFR Routes Near/over LAX

Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:08 am

There is an offshore IFR route that facilitates aircraft flying between other L. A. area airports. Usually involves northbound traffic from LGB, SNA, or TOA to either VNY or BUR. I'm not sure it's a published routing - perhaps merely radar vectors provided by SoCal Approach. Aircraft are usually between 6000' and 8000', and anywhere from 1/2mi to 2 miles offshore.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard