DfwRevolution
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UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:20 am

Pretty simple questions-

1. How many of fleet types have the new paint? I can count 5, the 777, 757, 737, CRJ, and another RJ.

2. How many of aircraft in the fleet have the new colors?

3. What should be the next aircraft to recieve the paint?

Thanks,
DFW
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:22 am

This should help:

1) 777, 757, 737(300), CRJ-200, CRJ-700, ERJ-145, Dash 8, Saab 340 (that's 8)

2) I'm not sure, but supposedly 74 by the end of the year.

3) 747 will be next in Nov. this year.
 
PanAm747
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:27 am

I, for one, will be grateful when I see that there is more than one 747 painted in the new colors. One, a la TWA, could be a publicity stunt to advertise the new brand, but two or more indicates the type will be here to stay...

WOO-HOO!! There's life in the old gal!! Too bad we're not going to see ANY of them at SAN...
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:29 am

Cool.. thanks for the fast reply. Even though I'm not a big color scheme person, I must say, the new colors look *awesome*  Big thumbs up


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EMBQA
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:29 am

I would say right now United has bigger things to worry about then painting airplanes......like surviving.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:31 am

I would say right now United has bigger things to worry about then painting airplanes......like surviving.

Actually.. the new c/s is one such cost cutting measure.....
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:47 am

Actually.. the new c/s is one such cost cutting measure.....

That's correct, planes have to be painted, and the new livery is cheaper to paint (there are too many threads on this subject, if you want to know why it's cheaper, go find one  Big grin). Here are all the aircraft types in the new livery:

Mainline:


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Express:


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And of course, Ted:


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blink182
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:07 pm

Is it just ship 775 or are there any other 777s painted in the new colors?

How long is it projected to repaint the entire fleet anyways? I know that the conversion from the old white scheme to the gray one took a few years.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
AirframeAS
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:15 pm

How many 733s are now in the new colors, I request an update. I hope to fly on a newly painted 733 on my x-mas 2004 trip to SEA!! That would cool!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:09 am

Blink182:

Only N775UA has the new livery, not sure which is next to get it. Not sure exactly how long, but I'm going to say about 4-5 years for the mainline.

AirframeAS:

There may be more, but last time I checked, these eight 733s wore the new livery:

N385UA
N394UA
N377UA
N376UA
N390UA
N388UA
N366UA
N381UA

There are also three 752s in the new colors:

N505UA
N508UA
N510UA

 
EMBQA
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:28 am

That's correct, planes have to be painted, and the new livery is cheaper to paint

Actually.. the new c/s is one such cost cutting measure


Boy, I'd like to see how you balance your check book. "H'mm I have no money in the bank, but if I buy that new HDTV it will save me money."

Exactly 'HOW' is the new livery cheaper to paint...? From the hand full of new UAL planes we have painted it actually took longer to paint the aircraft over the older gray - blue. Paint shops bill airlines on manhours... nothing more, and if it takes more manhours to paint the aircraft, it COSTS MORE. As someone that actually works in the aviation business and has been to several paint shops over seeing aircraft being painted, you'll need to explain this theory to me.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
liquid
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:54 am

EMBQA-

Painting planes is based on how much the paint costs to put on the plane. I realize that they may pay for hours worked in a paint shop but Airlines like United do their own painting therefore their maintenance department would work on it, paying them the same as they always get. Therefore the real cost is how much it costs for the paint and how hard it is to maintain.

Hope this helps

Blake
-Liquid
 
A319114
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:57 am

Well probably the paint is a lot cheaper...
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
flynavy
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:10 am

What many people here fail to realize/understand is that painting is required during heavy maintenance checks at scheduled intervals. Why? Corrosion prevention. In addition, planes aren't washed only for asthetic purposes. The primary purpose, is yet again, corrosion prevention.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
EMBQA
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:16 am

Painting planes is based on how much the paint costs to put on the plane

Correct... that is know as Manhours...!!

But Airlines like United do their own painting therefore their maintenance department would work on it.

Wrong...!! Delta is the only US airline that does their own in-house paint. No other US airline paints there own planes due to the strict regulations. It is all sent outto a third party. American Airlines also does there own work, but if you look closely at the Red, White and Blue strip they are applied with a paint roller...thus eliminating the VOC's. This way AA can keep it simple.

What many people here fail to realize/understand is that painting is required during heavy maintenance checks at scheduled intervals.

Common misconception and not always true. In the 10 yrs I have worked as a Tech Rep traveling to many different paint shops and seeing other airlines (UAL, CAL, USAirways, AirWisky, Midwest Express, FEDX, UPS just to name a few) getting their planes painted, do you know how many where right out of heavy check...? Zero. All the aircraft came directly off line and in many cases still had food in the galleys.

[Edited 2004-08-21 22:22:33]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
SafetyDude
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:18 am

There is some more information in these two topics: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1584153 and http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1551488.

The first 744 in new colors should be N180UA.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
PHLapproach
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:39 am

EMBQA - American Airlines also does there own work, but if you look closely at the Red, White and Blue strip they are applied with a paint roller...thus eliminating the VOC's. This way AA can keep it simple.

HAHA, are you kidding me you think they use a roller. They use special adhesive decals. Not a single trace of paint on AA aircraft. Yea, so I guess people wouldn't notice the paint not settling perfectly flat on the substrate, when using a ROLLER!

EMBQA - Exactly 'HOW' is the new livery cheaper to paint...? From the hand full of new UAL planes we have painted it actually took longer to paint the aircraft over the older gray - blue. Paint shops bill airlines on manhours... nothing more, and if it takes more manhours to paint the aircraft, it COSTS MORE. As someone that actually works in the aviation business and has been to several paint shops over seeing aircraft being painted, you'll need to explain this theory to me.

Wait then who pays for supplies?!?!, last time I checked the customer pays for supplies and labor. I guess paint shops dish out for mixing, masking paper, fineline tape and solvents to clean thier guns themselves.....White is a million times cheaper to mix since it is a Base color. Dark Gray, Orange and Red are not on the other hand, just to get the value, tint and chroma correct on a Red or Orange it takes about 8-10 other colors of Base.



 
EMBQA
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:19 am

PHL.....


Have you ever seen an AA plane get painted...?? Well I have have....and what they did was to apply the paint with a hand roller. It's fast, easy to do, takes no real skill and greatly lowers the VOC output so they also need limited enviromental protection. The tail logo may well be a placard, but that was applied after I left the paint shop.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
A319114
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:26 am

HAHA, are you kidding me you think they use a roller. They use special adhesive decals. Not a single trace of paint on AA aircraft. Yea, so I guess people wouldn't notice the paint not settling perfectly flat on the substrate, when using a ROLLER!

Decals are avoided were possible since they're way less durable then paint, so I find it very hard to believe that the red/white/blue stripes on the AA planes are decals. I must admit I've never seen an AA plane from really really close but as I said applying the stripes as decals wouldn't be a very wise move.

And of course large surfaces such as airplane fuselage are spray-painted and not with a roller.
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
PHLapproach
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:51 am

Ok, well has anyone maybe a rampie or MX felt the stripes on an AA aircraft? I havent, but If the stripe is very flat and flush with the Substrate then a clearcoat had to of been applied and therefore it's most likely painted stripes. I think AA aircrafts you can feel a ridged line from the decal.

A319114 - And of course large surfaces such as airplane fuselage are spray-painted and not with a roller.

No machinery Industry, including Automotive, Aviation, Marine or ever lawn mowers for that fact are painted with a brush and roller. They only use Spray guns, simply because have you ever looked at the paint on the walls in your house and how there are streaks from the brush or even dimples for a roller. Well do you see those characteristics on Metal? That is because all metal is sprayed, obviously you will get Orange Peel with Spray Guns.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:13 am

PHLapproach:
I agree with you 100% - Painting IS required in heavy maintenance, etc. However, I have a question... You said that AA has no paint on it, and I agree with you in that the stripe and lettering is obviously a decal, and that the chrome is the original color of the plane as it rolls out of the Everett plant (or So. California for the MD's, etc.) but isn't the tail, the engine covers/cowls, and the tail cone painted? (See below):

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Sorry if it's irrelevant, just wondering!
BTW: N180 Shall be the first 744 to be painted this November, as said above.
Thanks!
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:47 am

I must say, if AA's stripes are all decals, they do one hell of a job applying them. I always thought they were painted (sprayed or rolled).

As far as cars and other metal objects being rolled or brushed, it does happen. Sure it's not done in manufacturing, but if a person (or airline) can't afford or want to pay for a great paintjob, then they have to compromise..

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Check out those reflections (especially of #2 on the top of the fuselage).. Not bad for a 4 month old paint..  Laugh out loud
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
PHLapproach
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:00 am

Thank you much for pointing out the gray paint on the composites, I completely forgot about them  Laugh out loud.

UA772IAD - You said that AA has no paint on it, and I agree with you in that the stripe and lettering is obviously a decal, and that the chrome is the original color of the plane as it rolls out of the Everett plant.

Just to make a correction on your post and many others say it also. Aluminum can't be chromed, only machine buffed/polished. Chrome has a completly different make up then aluminum and therefore the chrome cant adhere. It's the same thing with why you need to use a Zinc Chromate primer on Aluminum.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:36 pm

What many people here fail to realize/understand is that painting is required during heavy maintenance checks at scheduled intervals.

Not at AS...at least when I was working there. We never re-painted our aircraft after they went through a heavy check in SEA. I have never seen our check crew strip the paint off an aircraft completely. The only time something gets painted during a check...heavy or intermediate is basically the sheetmetal work (patches, etc..) and some composite work including the nose cone, if it needs new paint.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
AAR90
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RE: UA New Paint Questions?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:21 am

Ok, well has anyone maybe a rampie or MX felt the stripes on an AA aircraft?

Yep, many a times.  Wink/being sarcastic

...but If the stripe is very flat and flush with the Substrate then a clearcoat had to of been applied and therefore it's most likely painted stripes.

Actually, both. Boeing normally paints the entire plane in AA's c/s. At some (distant) point in its future AA will remove the paint and replace with specially designed decals (my company trucks use the same material and have never needed touchup in 10+ years). All the B738s I've felt have been painted. All the previous AA planes I flew (B727/757/767/F100/MD80/DC10) carried decals [excluding MD90 which were required to be painted by its (ex-QQ) lease terms.

I think AA aircrafts you can feel a ridged line from the decal.

Yes, the decals are sealed to minimize erosion and prolong their lifespan.

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!