ETStar
Topic Author
Posts: 1850
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:25 am

US Airlines Operating In Europe

Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:17 am

In the old days, Pan Am and TWA (and maybe others) had short haul aircraft flying within Europe and to the middle east... What routes were performed by these airlines? Did they all have 5th freedom rights or were they simply feeder flights to pax continuing on to the US? What 'hubs' did they have?
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:21 am

As far as UA goes, here's what I know. All were with 727's, and inherited from Pan Am. They didn't last long, just a few years at the most.

CDG-ATH
LHR-TXL
LHR-MUC
LHR-FRA
LHR-HAM
LHR-AMS
LHR-BRU

I think there were more, but not sure which ones.

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:48 pm

Pan Am had several routes within Germany to and from Berlin, because German airlines were not allowed to fly there - this lasted until German reunification, when routes to Berlin were taken over by German airlines.

Actually, Delta also had some 727s stationed here in Frankfurt and used them on European services... this, too, was axed a few years back when Delta introduced nonstop flights to some of those destinations and cut others.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:23 pm

Delta used to fly FRA-PRG-WAW with its 727 back in mid 1990s.

DL's 727 in PRG:
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Photo © Alan Lebeda



There was a similar thread short time ago and someone gave a very insightful overview of DL's European operations back then
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2267
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:21 pm

Im October 1989 I was at Dubrovnik airport in Yugoslavia as it was then, awaiting my flight back to LTN as had been on a package holiday with my parents and remember seeing a Pan-Am 727-200 land.

We was all trying to workout what that was doing at the airport and couldn't imagine that flying in from America. Still don't know to this day, maybe it was as described above or leased to JAT who at the time had 727's as the mainstay of their fleet.
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:55 pm

Pan Am operated three hubs with 727-200s A310s A300s and B747s. They additionally had ATR-42s and 737-200s at some points.

They operated hubs that did feed from LHR and IGS services and 5th freedom rights from FRA and TXL.

There were some 5th freedom rights from LHR but the majority were Feed.
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:03 am

TWA had 727-100's based in TXL(Berlin Tegel). They flew at various times to IST, STR(Stuttgart?), MUC, CDG, FCO, ATH, CAI and I think LHR for awhile. I'm sure i missed something. We also had crews based in CDG and FRA. In the 60's, we even had crews based in CAI. I've heard that was a really sweet deal.

TWA also "hubbed" out of CDG for awhile. There were several tag flights that went to TLV, CAI, ATH, GVA, ZRH and MUC(I believe). It would be normal at CDG to see our three jetways with two 747's and a L1011 with two L1011's, two 767's and a 727 or two out on the hardstand. Good times.

The TXL crews also flew the FRA-Berlin shuttle. I don't know how it worked to get the planes to the other destinations. I guess they went to FRA and then fanned out.TC
FL450, M.85
 
antonovman
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 12:45 pm

RE: US Airlines Operating In Europe

Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:08 am

"The TXL crews also flew the FRA-Berlin shuttle. I don't know how it worked to get the planes to the other destinations. I guess they went to FRA and then fanned out.TC"
you seem to have it mixed up Aa717driver
I used to work for PanAm at FRA the the eighties
The berlin flights were mostly IGS = Internal German Services. This all started as an end of the war agreement in that german airlines were not allowed to fly to berlin. Both BA and PA had IGS services
Panam few TXL to FRA/STR/MUC and a few others, mainly in southern germany, BA IGS services were mainly in north germany. As soon as the wall came down, PA were suffering badly financially and sold their IGS unit to Lufthansa.The PA IGS was almost a german airline, german F/a's but american flight crew.
The other 727's did connecting flights to and from FRA. They flew to WAW KRK BDV PRG BUD OTP ATH ARN HEL and quite a few more destinations. These had nothing to do with IGS. There was a F/A base in WAW which covered most of the east european diestinations but the ATH ARN and HEL flights were operated by american F/A's who had arrived ex usa on the 747's. There were also connecting flights to BOM DEL which were crewed (F/A's) by BOM based F/A's and the odd 727/737/A300/A310 would arrive in FRA ex LHR crewed by british F/A's
It was quite a setup and a big operation in those days

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