FJWH
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KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:18 pm

Years back, KL flew airbus planes.

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Photo © Pedro Aragão


What was the reason that they quit operating Airbus aircraft?
What about the (near) future, can we expect airbus again (in KL livery)? If so, which aircraft('s)

Thanks,

FJWH
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
wietse
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:26 pm

Future: A330-200s are ordered. Dont know how many, but they are coming.
Wietse de Graaf
 
feeble
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:26 pm

Didn't KLM order a dozen of A330s?
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:32 pm

Google is sooo easy.....  Laugh out loud

http://www.eads.net/frame/lang/en/1024/xml/content/OF00000000400004/7/55/495557.html

November 14, 2002

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines has signed the contract with Airbus for the purchase of six A330-200s and further 18 purchase-rights of this type herewith formalizing an earlier commitment. Deliveries for the aircraft are scheduled to begin in April 2005. In KLM’s layout the aircraft will seat around 250 passengers in a comfortable two-class-cabin. The engine selection has yet to be made.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:45 pm

Hey

with this new AF partner ship they will probaly be seeing alot more Airbus in thier future. I think that there A330s are for deliveryin 2007.
No Vueling No Party
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:47 pm

AlitaliaMD11,

Read the posts....

Deliveries for the aircraft are scheduled to begin in April 2005.

KL911
 
Zweed
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:49 pm

These future 330's of KLM. on what routes will they possibly ble flying?
Are they replacing the MD-11 fleet?
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:50 pm

the reason KLM didn't bought an Airbus after the A310's is that they prefered the Boeing products 737NG the 747-400 didn't had a competitor from airbus, MD-11 for long range (A340-200 didn't had what KLM wanted) and 767 for A310 replacement, so there weren't any markets except for the 737NG market where KLM could choose Airbus.... so nothing about that they dislike them.

the 6 A330-200;s will arive in August , October , December 2005 and the last 3 in 2006, so its a very slow process... A330 is supposed to be the replacement of the 12 767-300ER's and with a possible combi of 777/A330 will replace the last 6 767's




greets maurice
 
FJWH
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 pm

Nice, I can't wait to see those A330's in the (new) KL color scheme  Smile. Really curious how it looks.

FJWH
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
A319114
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:05 pm

Well something like this:
http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000751

By the way: the a330s will be equiped with GE engines:
http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/cf6/cf6_20040428.html
Best looking engines on the a330 IMHO  Big thumbs up
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:11 pm

Nice to see those colours on the 330!

Guess I'll never see them at MRS, we've only got 3 F-70's per day...  Pissed

KL911
 
dutchjet
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:36 pm

Over the years, KLM worked much more closely with McDonnell Douglas (jet airliners - DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11) and then Boeing. Until now, the only Airbus airliner that KLM has flown is the A310-200 for which KLM was one of the launch customers. KLM did not have a great experience with the A310, nothing wrong with the aircaft (aside from a few typical introduction problems), the problem was that KLM could not use the A310-200 effectively on its route system. Flying 200 pax aircraft on the intra-European routes that the type was designed for did not work out as planned (pax want frequency and beng that AMS is a huge connection hub, less departures with big aircraft did not work) and since the A310-200 was a bit short in range for transatlantic operations, KLM ended up using the A310s on routes to the mideast, the gulf and some African destinations (some of these routes were also a bit of a strech for the type)......KLM phased out the A310-200s in favor of the 763ERs which offered more range, more passenger capacity. Note that KLM considers the 763s a compromise aircraft, since although its very versatile, it does not have the cargo capacity that KLM is looking for.

KLM has ordered the A332, 6 firm plus lots of options. KLM's exact fleet planning is still not clear, the 777s and A332s will over time replace both the 763 and MD11 fleets......but not enough aircraft are on firm order to accomplish that and KLM is interested in more 777s. A lot depends on what AF does with KL over the long term: first we must see how many long aircraft KL really needs as routes are rationalized and the AF and KL networks coordinated if not combined.
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:46 pm

''' A lot depends on what AF does with KL over the long term: first we must see how many long aircraft KL really needs as routes are rationalized and the AF and KL networks coordinated if not combined.'''

Sorry, slightly off-topic:

What routes do you think can come to AMS, or leave for CDG?
There should be some logic in that.

( Being it a Sunday today I hope Jwenting is visiting his family....  Laugh out loud)

Besides, If a KL777 goes tech, is it possible to 'borrow' an AF plane? I recall that MP and KL sometimes uses eachother planes. In that case we might see An AF340/330 at AMS incase they also don't have a spare 777.

KL911
 
dutchjet
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 pm

Hey Kl911....regarding routes, its already happening, AF will fly to Caracas and KL will drop service there, and KL will fly to Jarkarta, with AF dropping service. In the future, I would imagine that KL and AF will coodinate on routes to certain cities in Africa and South America......duplication of services in some cases will be eliminated. Its too soon too tell what will happen, a lot depends on if worldwide traffic continues to increase and how the yeilds are system wide.

Re an AF plane subbing for a KL airliner - why not? I can surely see that happening in the future, and AF and KL using or leasing eachother's aircraft for certain routes or to adjust capacity during certain times of the year.
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 pm

Dutchjet,

Thanks! Yes I know about a the Caracas and Jakarta routes, I was just wondering if there will be a strategy, like only AF to Africa, and only KL to Asia.

On a sidenote, are the reservation and sales offices in Holland and France still separate? And how about the check in and ticket desks at AMS and CDG

KL911
 
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:08 pm

LJ has once made an interesting post about the reasons why KLM took the A310 out of service.

If he sees this topic, I'm sure that he will reply.

(Being it a Sunday today I hope Jwenting is visiting his family....  Laugh out loud)

This one made my day!  Big thumbs up

Frederic
 
LJ
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:52 am

Dutchjet is not exactly right The A310 didn't exactly worked out well. However this was not the inefficient flying of the A310 but basically it was the result of a strategy change (which made them inefficient). At first KLM's strategy was to serve Europe with a mixture of large and small aircraft like they did in the DC-8 / DC-9 years. However later on KLM opted for high frequency instead of large aircraft (flying 4 B737s to MAD is a little bit more customer friendly then only 2 A310s). However, the A310s were a blessing as it meant that KLM could retain its Middle East schedule while serving the Far east nonstop (during the first Gulf war KLM started to fly nonstop to BKK etc) Only it wasn't ideal and therefore it was suddenly replaced by the leased B767s. However the main reason why KLM wanted the B767 was again a change of strategy (this time a change in its long haul strategy).

BTW at the time had to decide to purchase the A310 the B767 was also an option. However Boeing couldn't deliver it in time hence the reason why they opted for the A310-200

What routes do you think can come to AMS, or leave for CDG?

KLM will stop flying to Doula and leave the destination to AF as of winter schedule.

Regarding the A330 routes. Strong rumours that Quito and Guayaquil will become A330 destinations (without a stop in Bonaire). However, given the fact that the MD-11 is a very suitable aircraft for this route I doubt it will be the first one
 
A388
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:07 am

Interesting topic. I also wonder which routes will see KL 332 service. I was also thinking of the flights operated to Quito and Guayaquil as well as Lima nonstop. I would also use the 332 on the Curaçao and Aruba flights during the low season. In my opinion the 332 would be ideal for this route during the low season. It was also mentioned in the local newspaper in Curaçao (Amigoe) that KLM might use the 777 nonstop to Quito, Guayaquil and Lima, making the current Bonaire hub redundant. Any news on this?

A388
 
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airkas1
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:45 am

I don't think KLM will drop Bonaire. The airport there is undergoing some major changes (They built catering buildings, built a large fuel depot, extended the runway with 300m, built a whole new departure terminal (which is very beautiful, I've been in it this year)).

And since KLM is the biggest and most frequent visitor there, I doubt they would do all that, when they could be losing the position as a stop between Lima/Guayaquil/Quito.

But since I'm am a frequent visitor in the caribbean (especially Bonaire), I would love to see the A332 there.

Just my thoughts...

Kas
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N808NW
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:03 am

Dose anyone think KLM will use the 332 on AMS-MSP?
All flights have great IFE...get yourself a window seat, thats something no PTV can beat! flew 808 Pacific an Atlanic
 
dutchjet
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:19 am

Dose anyone think KLM will use the 332 on AMS-MSP?

-------

While anything is possible and the KL A332s could be assigned to the AMS-MSP route, I do not think its likely. NW seems to be flying most of the routes out of AMS to their hubs in DTW, MSP and MEM, plus KL/NW move a lot of passengers between AMS and the NW hubs such as MSP......MSP-AMS will eventually get NW A333 service, and if KL was to operate on of the flights between those two cities, I would think an MD11 would operate the route.....or maybe a 777.
 
A388
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:22 am

How is the load factor between AMS/BON and UIO/GYE/LIM? Is demand that much to justify these services? I never understood why KL operated between these countries as demand always seemed poor between these cities, except for the summer season. It wouldn't surprise me that the number of people flying between AMS and UIO/GYE/LIM wouldn't be that substantial. My only question is if the BON stop (or even the CUR stop in the past) between AMS and UIO/GYE/LIM is really that necessary. How are the load factors?

I didn't mean for KL to stop flying to BON all together. The AMS-BON flights are lucrative but I was only wondering about the UIO/GYE/LIM flights. Now that KL has or is investing in BON airport facilities doesn't mean they have to continue all flights. The expansion made is already very useful for the nonstop AMS flights.

I also wouldn't mind seeing KL's 332 flying to BON or CUR/AUA. The 332 will be wearing one of the most beautiful liveries when wearing the KL new livery  Wink/being sarcastic

A388
 
Horus
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:23 am

Dutchjet, According to Flight International the A332s (in most cases) will replace the routes that are currently flown by the 763s, as well as having the 777s replacing the the routes currently flown by MD-11s.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
wietse
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:40 am

so far so good re: Jwenting  Big grin
Wietse de Graaf
 
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airkas1
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:00 am

I don't know numbers for the loadfactors. But it looks to me like the seats that are being left empty between BON and UIO/GYE/LIM (from the passengers that get out on BON), won't be filled again. So the current MD-11 will have empty seats on the flight down south.

However, on the way back some South-American people will get out on Bonaire (probably not all that much either), but for sure it's going to fly BON-AMS fully loaded.


Now that KL has or is investing in BON airport facilities doesn't mean they have to continue all flights. The expansion made is already very useful for the nonstop AMS flights.

I don't know if KLM is sharing some costs with the island.And I hope the new features will bring more airlines and more different aircraft to Bonaire, with later on (they haven't yet begun building the cargo terminal) even bring cargo planes to BON.

The 332 will be wearing one of the most beautiful liveries when wearing
the KL new livery.


I couldn't agree more.

And I also wouldn't mind seeing 777's at BONBig thumbs up

Kas.
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ACES320
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:06 am

Some years back KL operated the BOG - AMS route. I do not know what the underlying strategy was for South America but operating to Quito and Lima alone it does not make a big of a deal for me. No aim to offend any of you. Colombian communities are bigger in the Netherlands than Peruvian and Ecuadorian ones though.

LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
A388
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:21 am

I also don't know about BOG or Colombia, but the UIO/GYE/LIM flights still puzzle me, because KL has been operating those flights for a long time now. The South American population in the Netherlands is not big, but the number of Colombians in the Netherlands is bigger than Ecuador or Peru, AFAIK. KL did operate AMS-BOG in the past, I think the flight was routed via CUR using an MD11. I remember this flight from the days I still lived in CUR. The aircraft always flew over our house, the same as the fligts to SJO/PTY in the '90's. The flight always left around sunset which made it even nicer to see  Wink/being sarcastic

A388
 
kevin752
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:26 pm

I never knew that KL ever opperated any Airbus planes. They actually looked nice in a A310. I will be sad to see their livery dissappear soon. Well that just makes me not want to fly Air France. I will be sure to stay away from them as much as possible now. I have not heard anything good about them either.
Kevin752
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mauriceb
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:46 pm

I don't think KLM will drop Bonaire. The airport there is undergoing some major changes (They built catering buildings, built a large fuel depot, extended the runway with 300m, built a whole new departure terminal (which is very beautiful, I've been in it this year)).



why wouldn't they? i think when DCA is gone they would prefer to get Aruba or Curacao as hub, since there are much more dutch holidayers at Curacao and aruba than at bonaire. if the choose aruba they can provide from ArubaExel theire service..

owh and about the new departure building: its stunning isnt it with only 1 sigaret and 1 alcohol shop :-P (iv been there too this year)


I never knew that KL ever opperated any Airbus planes. They actually looked nice in a A310. I will be sad to see their livery dissappear soon. Well that just makes me not want to fly Air France. I will be sure to stay away from them as much as possible now. I have not heard anything good about them either.
Kevin752


are you the american version of jeroenW? i mean the KLM birds are still flying with dutch crew, dutch pilot. the only thing that is different is the managers, 3 dutch 3 france....... and you didn't heard anything good? i think you mist the topic about how much profit they made together....

 
A388
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:51 pm

I agree with you MauriceB,

The investment KL made in the BON aiport facilities isn't that much (looking at how big KL is). The word "hub" is very misleading in Bonaire's case as KL doesn't have a real hub operation in BON. They only have the AMS flights arriving in BON of which some go onward to UIO/GYE/LIM, but that's not what a hub does. An airport is a hub when one airline provides more connecting possibilities on the airport with more flights. If KL also flew to other cities from BON, for example, SJO/PTY/MIA/GRU/GIG and taking passengers between these cities, then BON can be considered a hub. If KL sees better opportunities in the region, they will just move their operations elsewhere. Their investment in BON isn't that big. Besides this, there's no true feeder airline in BON besides Bonair Exel, which in my opinion isn't a true feeder airline as well. All these factors have to be operated on a much bigger scale in order to call BON a hub for KL (or any other airline for that matter).

But I'm happy for BON, even though it's a small airport  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

A388
 
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airkas1
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:04 pm

owh and about the new departure building: its stunning isnt it with only 1 sigaret and 1 alcohol shop :-P (iv been there too this year)

Yes, but it's a big difference from what they had before. You must've seen it a few years ago aswell. Back then it was where the ticket offices are now and that is even smaller Smile/happy/getting dizzy.

Kas



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LJ
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:21 pm

I also don't know about BOG or Colombia, but the UIO/GYE/LIM flights still puzzle me, because KL has been operating those flights for a long time now.

There is one very important reason why KLM flies to Quito and Guayaquil and that's Shell and another company whose name I can't remember. Nowadays cargo ex GYE and UIO is also very important (hence why MP flies a cargo MD11 into UIO).

KLM used to have a lot of pax traveling from Ecuador to Spain, but after the Spanish government decided to check the KL flights to Spain (people from Ecuador have to have a visa for Spain but bypassed that requirement by flying via Amsterdam) this traffic dropped. Furthermore, due to low fares for direct flights to UIO the market from Spain also dried up.

I'm not 100% sure but KLM cited security reasons and low loadfactors when they discontinued BOG. Furthermore I doubt anyone in The Netherlands is waiting for another flight from a country where drug trafficing is a possible problem.
 
keesje
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:00 pm

Other reason to replace the 767 is the increased cargo capasity. LD2´s make it fully compatible with the other widebodies. Range/crew wise the A330 are specified to fly all but the longest routes, increasing seasonal / ad-hoc flexibility.

Short/medium range higher capasity needs are partly filled by 737-900. However you can see a KL767 every morning at LHR..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Dakota
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 pm

Hi,

I flew AMS-GYE in may, and actually only a few people did leave the plane in BON. Furthermore: Ecuador is a very touristic destination, also a lot of specifically English, German and Swiss people fly KLM to UIO or GYE.

And yes, there's oil (Shell) as mentioned, but also there are many flower companies which are linked to the Netherlands.

Would be nice to see the A330 or 777 flying there in future, allthough I like the MD-11.
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:36 pm

Yes, I always flew the 8.25 767 to LHR every Monday morning, what will replace this 767 when they are gone? Will they use a 330 which is not needed for longhaul in the morning, but has an afternoon lonhaul departure?

KL911
 
Dakota
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:30 am

Question: Is there currently a European airline using an aircraft as large as the A330 on inter-European flights, except KLM on AMS-LHR with the 767?
 
aerosol
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:33 am

BA uses 767 on LHR DUS sometimes.
 
Horus
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:38 am

The following use widebodies from their respective hubs to LHR:

LH (A300s)
LX (A330s)
TAP (A340s) seasonal
Iberia (A340s) seasonal
Olympic (A340s) seasonal

Horus


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Schoenorama
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:24 am

I have actually flown a couple of times on the KL A310's on the AMS-MAD route. I loved the aircraft particularly because they were never full. Guess that's why they were replaced with the 737's.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
ACES320
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:54 am

I'm not 100% sure but KLM cited security reasons and low loadfactors when they discontinued BOG. Furthermore I doubt anyone in The Netherlands is waiting for another flight from a country where drug trafficing is a possible problem.

Lj

I was in the Netherlands a couple of weeks ago and being a Colombian myself can tell you drugs come all over the world including the world famous X-pills and the green seeds you can get in the streets and coffee shops of AMS. They did not disappear because of KLM's BOG flights shutting down.
What a poor reason you give: BA, AF, IB would follow suit then according to your reasoning. Let's close the Schiphol- JFK route to avoid extasis being sold in the streets of Manhattan.

 Insane
LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
LJ
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:58 am

What a poor reason you give: BA, AF, IB would follow suit then according to your reasoning

I can't speak about the situation at LHR, MAD or any other airport, but drugs smuggling is a very big issue in The Netherlands (or better our politicians see it as a big problem). The fact that KLM was serious considering closing down AMS-CUR due to the (drug smuggling related) problems on these flights must mean something. Therefore the Dutch government wouldn't cheer should KLM decide AMS-BOG again (not that they intend). In fact not many will really miss AMS-CCS as this meant closing down a very popular drug smuggling route (after AMS-CUR became too risky). Moreover, just to inform you, the US did once issue a warning that they would revoke landing landing rights if the Dutch wouldn't cooperate on its war gainst drugs.

Yes, I always flew the 8.25 767 to LHR every Monday morning, what will replace this 767 when they are gone? Will they use a 330 which is not needed for longhaul in the morning, but has an afternoon lonhaul departure?

Unless KLM does a major rescheduling I don't see why wouldn't change the current 767 rotation into a A330 rotation. Moreover as the A330 would create a possibility to lift larger pieces of cargo ex LHR. However, nothing is known about this.


 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:19 am

I'm not 100% sure but KLM cited security reasons and low loadfactors when they discontinued BOG. Furthermore I doubt anyone in The Netherlands is waiting for another flight from a country where drug trafficing is a possible problem.


youre so funny i mean, here in The Netherlands we got Weed, and in almost every party they sell pills and other hard drugs. no reason for KLM to shut down the line, I mean if they are shutting down because of drugs they would definitely close the CUR , AUA, BON flights, I mean those are always full because of the drugs transporters :-P



greetings maurice....
 
kl911
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:14 am

MauriceB,

About half a year ago the Dutch government said that if KLM didn't do anything about the drugs problem from those countries that those flights would not be allowed anymore. Main problem was that many persons took the drugs inside the stomach during the flight. Since then there is a special bodyscanner on Curacao.

KL911
 
Fokker50
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:26 am

I think that KLM passed thought the same problems as AA. The airbus planes didn't made KLM happy. Just like the AA MD's 11.

FOKKER50
Bogota, the South american gateway!
 
ACES320
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:48 am

By the way if something is to blame shutting down a route is loads. Finally Airlines' business is to transport people indeed. They would pull off a route just because of a scanner and believe me, there are a lot of them at BOG

LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
Thrust
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:13 am

It would be nice of KLM ordered the A333 too....however, it is strange KLM is still placing orders for new aircraft despite the fact that their time as an individual airline is limited? Don't see the point, really....
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
globetrekker
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RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:40 pm

AirKas1
I don't think KLM will drop Bonaire. The airport there is undergoing some major changes (They built catering buildings, built a large fuel depot, extended the runway with 300m, built a whole new departure terminal (which is very beautiful, I've been in it this year).


The flights operating to BON used to operate to AUA and CUR before as you already knew. We call them KLM's tail-end flights. Those flights are just to re-fuel and re-cater. The number of pax who were actually traveling to AUA/CUR and now BON are very insignificant. The only reason that BON got those flights is because of the price that BON could offer its services and that includes everything. There was a mini war between the three islands about who would get the flights. That already shows that AUA, BON and CUR are very interchangeable. BON put an offer on the table that KL could not refuse to the dismay of AUA and CUR. The hotel where the KL crew lays over, the catering, the airport fees, the handling agent (Bon Air Services), the fuel company etc. all cooperated and it would be cheaper for KL to operate their flights through BON. So BON won and the other islands were not happy. Of course KL put down some conditions and a major one was a facility for transit pax, runway extension etc. Will that secure BON forever...no it won't. CUR was the angriest as there is where KLM's Area Management is based for all three islands. Our Regional Management is in CCS. They moved some departments over to Ecuador now as there it is cheaper. The pax traveling to UIO/GYE/LIM are mainly not from AMS but from places like BCN, MAD, FCO, LIN etc. I know, because I worked those flights in AUA, BON and CUR. Yes the cargo is also important as Lj said, but if I go into CORDA/DODECO now (KL's reservation and Departure Control Systems) you can see that a high number of pax are continuing on to Spain and Italy on the KL 742/KL 754.

KL911
Main problem was that many persons took the drugs inside the stomach during the flight. Since then there is a special body scanner on Curacao.


There is no body scanner at CUR anymore; they took it away.

And as far as the drugs go....yes it is a major problem, but not KLM's problem. When we get a "negatieve reis advies" (an advice not to transport certain pax, because of suspicion of potentially transporting drugs) from the authorities, we do not transport them....period! When Air Holland and Martinair were flying out of AUA to AMS they also had drug mules on board. I get sick about thinking how many times we had to delay flights, because of pax and sometimes crew transporting drugs. When we still worked the UIO/GYE?LIM flights, there were pax in-transit from those destinations walking around the airport building and they got caught with drugs too. There you go again at 3 in the morning having to offload containers to get to the bags of the pax. More delays! Recently I was in BON to train some new Bon Air Services agents for KLM and I worked the nightshift a whole week and 4 times the flight had been held due to drug related problems. Once from a pax that boarded in BON and three times from multiple pax in-transit from Ecuador/Peru.
Some time ago DCA was under fire, because it seemed that they were transporting more couriers than KLM on average. Did DCA do something different that KLM? Not really....but DCA was at that time cheaper and hell yes....even drug couriers look for a good deal when it comes to purchasing tickets and DCA had it!
KLM themselves threatened to seize flying to CUR, because of mules dying aboard the aircraft, causing the company more money to divert. Money no one was going to refund to KL.
Then the Dutch government said it would revoke DCA rights of flying to AMS if they didn’t reduce the number of couriers they were transporting. The CUR government responded very simply...you stop DCA, we stop KLM.
I cannot understand what the airline itself can do. I am speaking for both DCA and KLM now....We check you in and ask you the standard questions...we get the transport advice from the authorities and follow it up..... the baggage scanners scan all baggage and the dogs do their thing......after that...well we board and haul @ss. What more can we do......The same problem that MP, KL and DCA have to or had to deal with, I can bet you 100% that Dutch Caribbean Exel will have to deal with too. Once there is a demand for it, it will continue and as The Netherlands Antilles and Aruba are strategically a perfect trampoline between South America and Europe it will continue.

Just my 2 cents.

GlobeTrekker




[Edited 2004-08-24 06:44:56]
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ACES320
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:50 am

RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:59 pm

Very good indeed GlobeTrekker
That was smarter.
Provided is demand there will be a route. Airlines do their best to keep security under required standards. Colombian, Ecuadorian or Peruvian nationals ae not to blame.

Cheer Trekker
LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:19 pm

A long haul fleet consisting in A332/B777/B744 ... Doesn't it remind you another airline... ? (that one that is not washing its plane daily...)

LH & BA still operate widebodies (A300-600/B767) on their European network because they are short in slots at their respective Hub.
The biggest aircraft operated by Air France on this network is the A321, as AF is far from being short in slots at CDG, and as AF has chosen "frequencies" over "capacity" for feeding its Hub.
I guess the same strategy will be applied to AMS in a near future

Concerning the long haul activity, many destinations will still be served both from AMS and CDG, just because there is a demand for that !
For next year, as mentioned above, CCS, DLA and MIA will be served only from CDG, as CGK, MNL will be only from AMS. All this is very logical : AF holds a very strong position in South America. In Asia, AF is the European N°1 in Japan, Korea, China, but AF has always been "weaker" in South-East Asia, where KLM is in stronger position.


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globetrekker
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:51 am

RE: KLM And Airbus

Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:33 pm

Thank you very much ACES320.

I also agree with what FLYSSC said.

You can also read this:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1703040/
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